Nano Ledger Sending BTC Fee And Time?

[jerry0]

I just sent a tiny bit of btc using my nano ledger s.  I haven't sent btc from the nano ledger s in a while.  What i notice was in the fees, it shows as standard and shows where you could make it high fee, standard or low or custom.  I just kept it at standard.  Fee was around 7 cents or so.  I sent very tiny amount of btc.


When i went to view it on the block explorer, it shows unconfirmed still.  I thought transactions are very fast now when you do standard for the fees?

[Rath_]

When i went to view it on the block explorer, it shows unconfirmed still.  I thought transactions are very fast now when you do standard for the fees?

It looks like that there hasn't been any block found in the last 20 minutes. That's the reason why your transaction hasn't been confirmed yet. Hardware wallets usually recommend higher than needed fee even when selecting a standard one.

[AB de Royse777]

When i went to view it on the block explorer, it shows unconfirmed still.  I thought transactions are very fast now when you do standard for the fees?

I made a tx and paid 1 sat/Byte fees and it took less than 20 minutes to confirm. The pool is not much congested now.

That standard fees option varies. Do you know what sat/Byte was your tx fee?

[goinmerry]

When i went to view it on the block explorer, it shows unconfirmed still.  I thought transactions are very fast now when you do standard for the fees?

What's your expectation about how fast it will be on that standard fees? 1 minute? 2 minutes? 3 minutes?

Even paying higher fees sometimes take 5-15 minutes to confirm. There are factors to be considered.

[jerry0]

I paid 4 sat/byte fee.  That was the standard which was around $0.07 or so.  I notice you could make it like 1 sat which would be like 2 cents or 2 sat which is like 3 cents but i didn't want it to take very long etc.


But you are saying its fine to make it 1 sat/byte fee nowadays?



When you ask how long did you expect transaction to take... i thought all transactions take within 10 minutes now at the most if you do standard fee?

[Rath_]

But you are saying its fine to make it 1 sat/byte fee nowadays?

Yes. You can always check the recommended transaction fee here. It is fairly accurate.

When you ask how long did you expect transaction to take... i thought all transactions take within 10 minutes now at the most if you do standard fee?

They do as long as the price of Bitcoin doesn't change much. Keep in mind that blocks are not mined exactly 10 minutes after the previous one. 10 minutes between the blocks on average is the target.

[jerry0]

Okay i just noticed now it shows 3 confirmations on the explorer.  But the site that i sent to, it still shows as pending confirmation.  They require 3 confirmations before they credit account.


So as long as it show confirmations, that is fine right?  I think site takes a bit longer to credit.


I notice in the bottom on the explorer info, it said i saved like 25% by upgrading to segwit but could save 13% mofe if i upgrade to native segwit- bech32.  What is native segwit-bech32?

[Rath_]

I notice in the bottom on the explorer info, it said i saved like 25% by upgrading to segwit but could save 13% mofe if i upgrade to native segwit- bech32.  What is native segwit-bech32?

Native SegWit is a new type of address which is not supported by all services and wallets but allows you to save more money on the fees as the block explorer states. You can get one by generating a new wallet in Electrum. As for the hardware wallets, Ledger supports such addresses since the recent update while Trezor requires you to pair it with Electrum. These addresses start with bc1. The more people switch to native SegWit, the more transactions will fit in a block.

[jerry0]

In other words, don't bother with it right?


Transaction went through earlier.  I did another transaction this time but lowered the fee to 3 sat because someone said they did 1 sat and transaction is still fast.  But now it shows the ETA is 20 blocks or so.  Earlier it was a few blocks when i did the standard fee.


So if you send 1 sat or 2 sat, expect it to take almost 1 hour or so?  But anything standard or more, 30 minutes?

[Rath_]

In other words, don't bother with it right?

If you don't intend to move your coins in the next few months or want to use services which support it then you might consider using it. You have already been saving some money thanks to nested SegWit which is fully compatible with every wallet and service.

So if you send 1 sat or 2 sat, expect it to take almost 1 hour or so?  But anything standard or more, 30 minutes?

It depends on a few things. 1 sat/byte has been enough to get a transaction confirmed in the next block for a long time now. Sometimes, a block is not found for 20-40 minutes or the Bitcoin price suddenly surges/spikes so many people move their coins at the same time.

[o_e_l_e_o]

In other words, don't bother with it right?

I would definitely consider upgrading to Bech32 addresses, especially if you are going to be making many small transactions as you will save yourself more money in the long run. The only downside is that some online services will not let you withdraw to Bech32 addresses yet (you can still deposit from them). In these cases, you can always use your old "3..." addresses to withdraw to.

Transaction went through earlier.  I did another transaction this time but lowered the fee to 3 sat because someone said they did 1 sat and transaction is still fast.  But now it shows the ETA is 20 blocks or so.  Earlier it was a few blocks when i did the standard fee.

There is not a static correlation between fee and speed of confirmation. It depends entirely on how full the mempool is at the time.

If there aren't many other transactions waiting to be confirmed, then a fee of 1 sat/byte will get you in the next block and will confirm quickly. However, let's say lots of transaction start being made, and now they start to back up. Some people want to make sure they are at the front of the queue, so will pay a higher fee. This can snowball relatively quickly, and suddenly to get in the next block you need fees of 10 or more sat/byte. The same fee which during quiet periods would confirm in ~10 minutes will not take a few hours, because there are a couple of thousands transactions which have "skipped the queue" so to speak by paying a higher fee, and so they will get prioritized over your low fee transaction.

To determine the most appropriate fee for your needs, use the site I linked to above. See this post from 1miau for an explanation of how to use that site (from point 5 onwards): https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5182906.0

If that's too complicated, then just use the fee at the bottom of the blue box on this site for a rough estimation: https://www.coinb.in/#fees

[jerry0]

Well if you do lot of transactions whether small or medium or big, always upgrade it to bech32 addresses?  When did this came a thing?  I never heard of bech32 address previously.


Well it cost me like 8 cent and 3 cents to send those 2 transactions each.  The last one i did it took a bit over 30 minutes or so.  So you are saying if you upgrade to bech32 addresses, instead of 8 cents or 3 cents for a transfer, it would be like half of it or something?  I notice if you put 1 sat, it comes to like 2 cents or so... which is pretty low already.


But you are saying if i don't upgrade, even if i send 1 sat each time, it will cost 2 cents but can take long if lot of ppl in queue.  But if i upgrade to bech32 address, you are saying if i send the 4 sat which is the standard, it is even faster?  Or you mean if you upgrade to bech32, you can always send 1 sat and its very fast?  So with bech32 address, instead of 4 sat being about 7 cents, it would be like 3 cents or something?

[Rath_]

Well if you do lot of transactions whether small or medium or big, always upgrade it to bech32 addresses?  When did this came a thing?  I never heard of bech32 address previously.

Bech32 has been available in Electrum since 1st November 2017. Bitcoin Core introduced it in the 0.16 update. SegWit was actived on 24th August 2017. If more users upgraded to native SegWit, major services and wallets would be forced to support it. Unfortunately, it's not that easy. You should upgrade if you don't mind the previously mentioned inconvenience.

But if i upgrade to bech32 address, you are saying if i send the 4 sat which is the standard, it is even faster?

Your transaction will weight less which means that you will be able to afford paying a higher fee. Miners are more likely to choose your transaction in such a case.

[o_e_l_e_o]

So you are saying if you upgrade to bech32 addresses, instead of 8 cents or 3 cents for a transfer, it would be like half of it or something?

Not half. Usually in the region of 10-20% cheaper, depending on the number and type of inputs and outputs in the transaction.

But you are saying if i don't upgrade, even if i send 1 sat each time, it will cost 2 cents but can take long if lot of ppl in queue.  But if i upgrade to bech32 address, you are saying if i send the 4 sat which is the standard, it is even faster?  Or you mean if you upgrade to bech32, you can always send 1 sat and its very fast?

There is no difference in speed between types of address, provided the fee in sat/byte is the same. However, Bech32 transactions take up less space, so the same absolute fee would work out as a higher sat/byte fee, and therefore mean you are more likely to be confirmed sooner.

For example, lets say you are making a transaction from a "3" address which is 500 bytes (these numbers are an example only). You pay 2000 sats as a fee, which works out as 4 sat/byte. The same transaction from a Bech32 address might only be 400 bytes. You can either pay a smaller fee of 1600 sats to have the same rate of 4 sat/byte, saving yourself some money, or you could pay the same fee of 2000 sats to have the higher rate of 5 sat/byte, meaning your transaction is more likely to be confirmed sooner.

[DireWolfM14]

The low fees are a great incentive to start using bech32 addresses, but the reason for the low fees is the best reason.  The smaller transaction weights help the network as a whole.  

As more exchanges start using bech32 it'll become more and more convenient.  One big service, Coinbase already does, but (and I find this odd) Binance does not.  Right now it seems more popular for the peer to peer realm of transactions, but again as more people start using the sooner exchanges and web-wallets will implement it.

[o_e_l_e_o]

As more exchanges start using bech32 it'll become more and more convenient.  One big service, Coinbase already does.  Although, and I find this odd, Binance does not.

It's really disappointing just how long it is taking some big exchanges and other services to start supporting SegWit, especially considering that it is a fairly straightforward thing to do. It's not like we are asking them to start setting up Lightning nodes, although some exchanges are even doing that: https://www.bitstamp.net/lightning-network-node/. I do worry just how long it will take them to move to Lightning when it's now 2 years since SegWit and lots of them still haven't bothered: https://whensegwit.com/

Segwit adoption seems to have leveled off - we have been stuck around 45% of transactions being SegWit for the last year or so. Given that the only good reason to not use SegWit is if you are frequently using exchanges or other services which don't support it, I suspect we will be stuck at this level until the big players like Binance finally sort themselves out. I suppose it is another good argument for moving to a decentralized exchange where you can use whatever address you want.

[Pmalek]

The only thing you need to remember is that if you are not in a hurry just stick with 1 Sat/Byte fees. They will get confirmed in an hour, two or even a day or two. You wouldn't care because you are not in a hurry.
At the moment 1 Sat/Byte is all that is needed for a relatively fast confirmation. But your wallet might suggest more than that which means that you are unnecessarily overpaying.

Another option you can use in Electrum for example is RBF or Replace by Fee. Lets say you make a transaction of 1 Sat/Byte but you realize that after a few hours it has still not been confirmed and you need the money. With RBF you can increase the fees to 2,3,10... or whatever fee you want to have it confirmed earlier.

[DireWolfM14]

The only thing you need to remember is that if you are not in a hurry just stick with 1 Sat/Byte fees.

Pmalek, it sounds like you're as cheap as I am.   

I always do that when I'm shifting funds around my own wallets.  I know I can wait, and it's just a matter of time.  The fees were crazy low this past weekend.  I used the opportunity to consolidate 17 transactions at 1 sat/byte, and had my first confirmation within a few minutes. 

[Pmalek]

@DireWolfM14
People panic when they see that a few hours have passed and their transaction has not been confirmed yet. They are missing the balance in their wallet and think the bitcoins will fall into a pit and never be recovered again. To avoid that they tend to overpay or look for ways to speed it up. But all that is needed is some more time and patience.