Shower thought. If nations/states/governments are accumulating Bitcoin, then

[Darker45]

I believe they must be doing it in secret. What would be the advantage for North Korea, or Iran, to let everyone know that they are accumulating/mining/HODLING?

That to me is a far-fetched idea. Why would the governments buy something that [1.] they might know a little or nothing about, [2.] does not have any guarantee of appreciation over time, [3.] could not be influenced by them or even invited for possible negotiation/arrangement, [4.] might be a direct threat to the very system they are operating and benefiting under, [5.] and most importantly, cannot be made a secret? 

To a rogue and eccentric country such as North Korea though, it could possibly happen.

[pooya87]

if bitcoin could help these countries go around the sanctions and help with their transactions then it would have made some sense to me but since it can't (being small and too volatile) i don't think it is plausible. besides if accumulation were the goal of the governments then they could have simply impose new tax laws on anybody who owns bitcoin to pay a portion of it to the revenue services, that way in no time without any cost they would accumulate a lot of bitcoins no matter what the price of it is at that time.

[Wind_FURY]

I don't know if governments would want something like Bitcoin to be accumulated by them. Imagine a centralized entity using a decentralized currency.

To go around economic sanctions imposed to some countries, for example the United States' sanctions on Iran, North Korea, China, or Venezuela.

There are a couple of things that governments would not like about bitcoin.

• The Trust that it has value.
  • Imagine FIAT currency, they have value because the government says they have value
  • They want it to be backed with tangible assets
• They want control over the currency (which is not possible for Bitcoin)
• They can't control the maximum supply
• Crime Concerns (with all the media and news surrounding it, I don't know if they will trust it)

I think there are more to be discussed, but that's just came from the top of my head. I believe they have other concerns rather than this one. Unless the Leader of that country believes in the currency, that would be a different story all over.

But censorship-resistance is Bitcoin's value proposition, it can be a powerful tool for a country/nation/government.

[Kakmakr]

I don't know if governments would want something like Bitcoin to be accumulated by them. Imagine a centralized entity using a decentralized currency.

To go around economic sanctions imposed to some countries, for example the United States' sanctions on Iran, North Korea, China, or Venezuela.

There are a couple of things that governments would not like about bitcoin.

• The Trust that it has value.
  • Imagine FIAT currency, they have value because the government says they have value
  • They want it to be backed with tangible assets
• They want control over the currency (which is not possible for Bitcoin)
• They can't control the maximum supply
• Crime Concerns (with all the media and news surrounding it, I don't know if they will trust it)

I think there are more to be discussed, but that's just came from the top of my head. I believe they have other concerns rather than this one. Unless the Leader of that country believes in the currency, that would be a different story all over.

But censorship-resistance is Bitcoin's value proposition, it can be a powerful tool for a country/nation/government.

It is not a secret that some countries are using "alternative" payment options to bypass economic sanctions.

https://news.bitcoin.com/venezuelan-government-accused-of-using-bitcoin-to-bypass-us-sanctions/

https://www.fxstreet.com/cryptocurrencies/news/cubans-resort-to-bitcoin-and-cryptocurrencies-to-bypass-us-sanctions-201909130421

https://www.fxstreet.com/cryptocurrencies/news/russian-arms-producer-to-use-bitcoin-to-bypass-sanctions-201907291503

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/iran/bitcoin-craze-hits-iran-as-u-s-sanctions-squeeze-weak-economy-1.7579740

Why is this illegal, these countries are doing this to survive and their citizens are suffering more as a result of these sanctions. 

[davis196]

If countries like North Korea and Iran really do such thing,they would keep it secret,because once the western world finds out,you can kiss legal cryptocurrency trading and mining goodbye.
I don't think that North Korea and Iran(or any other third world country ruled by a dictator) ca manipulate the crypto markets.They just don't have enough money to gather huge amounts of coins.

[Wind_FURY]

if bitcoin could help these countries go around the sanctions and help with their transactions then it would have made some sense to me but since it can't (being small and too volatile) i don't think it is plausible.

Why? The volatility as risk, in exchange for going around sanctions, is worth taking in my opinion. Plus what does "being small" mean? The capped supply?

 besides if accumulation were the goal of the governments then they could have simply impose new tax laws on anybody who owns bitcoin to pay a portion of it to the revenue services, that way in no time without any cost they would accumulate a lot of bitcoins no matter what the price of it is at that time.

How many people own Bitcoin, and how much do they own? How can the government prove, and will the people declare it?

Better to tax people in fiat, and use that to subsidize Bitcoin buying/mining.

[libert19]

Does it matter? They will only be strengthening the Bitcoin ecosystem with ways you mentioned.

[squatter]

I don't know if governments would want something like Bitcoin to be accumulated by them. Imagine a centralized entity using a decentralized currency.

Gold is decentralized -- yet central banks are storing it in their vaults as we speak. How is that any different?

if bitcoin could help these countries go around the sanctions and help with their transactions then it would have made some sense to me but since it can't (being small and too volatile) i don't think it is plausible.

Plus what does "being small" mean? The capped supply?

The limited amount of accessible liquidity in the system. Anyone who needs to buy or sell a really large number of bitcoins has a limited number of brokers and services to turn to. There's far more liquidity in fiat/banking systems to slip by unnoticed.

[peter0425]

I believe they must be doing it in secret. What would be the advantage for North Korea, or Iran, to let everyone know that they are accumulating/mining/HODLING?

I don’t think that governments will hold or accumulate bitcoin or even other altcoins because they are the one who wants fiat to increase each value since it’s the basis of the growing economy if the value of the currency of each country increases

But what I think is people inside governments are doing so,surely that atleast politicians or government employees are accumulating cryptocurrency because people can’t resist the future of crypto specially those who has knowledge about advance technology

[sehoon]

I'm not going to be surprised if nation/states/governements are trying to accumulate bitcoin. Because in my country, one of the politicians is taking interest in cryptocurrency and launching his own cryptocurrency which is the pac coin. If a country supports it, then the government officials must be trying to accumulate some knowing that it can really be profitable.

[leftgirly]

Any country in the world that may be participating in  bitcoin mining or any means of accumulating some huge amount of bitcoin can be described as just being smart and wise. Times has really changed and it would not be surprise if any power house country like North Korea or the USA is secretly mining bitcoin. This would eventually give them more power when bitcoin becomes a mainstream currency in the world.

[NoBanThx]

Spoiler: most of those farms in China where 81% of the hashing power is, are owned by the CIA, they just hide their true hashing power in different pools and country`s, for now. The USA Government has over 51% of the hashing power.

#True

What stops this? nothing, other than making each person 1 node and give equal hash rate to each participant, which would require KYC. Does not mean your KYC has to be given to a centralized body, or cooperation, but a neutral decentralized AI and blockchain can check this for us.

[crwth]

Gold is decentralized -- yet central banks are storing it in their vaults as we speak. How is that any different?

When you said that, something came into my mind also. We all know that Gold is being used as an investment tool maybe it will be an ETF or Futures market, it's being used. So knowing that aspect, as you suggested that it's not much any different, maybe Nations/States/Governments are going to produce something similar to that and have people speculate prices too but controlling that market would be the advantage that they would have, which is what they want, control

Anyway, there are a lot of differences between Gold and Bitcoin, and it could be discussed in another topic though.

[pooya87]

if bitcoin could help these countries go around the sanctions and help with their transactions then it would have made some sense to me but since it can't (being small and too volatile) i don't think it is plausible.

Why? The volatility as risk, in exchange for going around sanctions, is worth taking in my opinion. Plus what does "being small" mean? The capped supply?

if you buy a game worth $10 and price goes down from $10500 to $9500 the seller loses $0.95. but when you are making a gigantic trade like selling oil per barrel per day worth $50 million for example, the same price drop means the seller loses $4.76 million. same goes with case when price goes up. and that what volatility does to large transactions.

similarly you can "convert" $10 to and from bitcoin, even $100k or $1 million one time but you can't do the same with something like $50 million every day. the market isn't even that big to absorb that much. (just now it took only ~800BTC=$8mil to push the price below $10k again)

besides if accumulation were the goal of the governments then they could have simply impose new tax laws on anybody who owns bitcoin to pay a portion of it to the revenue services, that way in no time without any cost they would accumulate a lot of bitcoins no matter what the price of it is at that time.

How many people own Bitcoin, and how much do they own? How can the government prove, and will the people declare it?

Better to tax people in fiat, and use that to subsidize Bitcoin buying/mining.
[/quote]
all they need to do is to regulate exchanges and force them to give a list of all transactions every user made. now it is not up to the "people" to want to pay their taxes or not, if they don't they are evading and that is illegal and can have jail time.

[whtchocla7e]

It seems that they are not publicizing this matter, we cannot know the amount they hold. But with the development of blockchain technology and this hot currency, I believe that governments and countries will sit still.

[Wind_FURY]

I don't know if governments would want something like Bitcoin to be accumulated by them. Imagine a centralized entity using a decentralized currency.

Gold is decentralized -- yet central banks are storing it in their vaults as we speak. How is that any different?

if bitcoin could help these countries go around the sanctions and help with their transactions then it would have made some sense to me but since it can't (being small and too volatile) i don't think it is plausible.

Plus what does "being small" mean? The capped supply?

The limited amount of accessible liquidity in the system. Anyone who needs to buy or sell a really large number of bitcoins has a limited number of brokers and services to turn to. There's far more liquidity in fiat/banking systems to slip by unnoticed.

Not that limited. In fact, liquidity is always increasing. Or, Bitcoin might remain a "small niche", but it won't, by any means "be small".

[Ayiranorea]

When governments accumulate bitcoin, automatically the circulation will get disturbed. This will get reflected over the market of bitcoin. Same time the less supply apart from the bitcoin that's been accumulated will create increased demand for bitcoin. This will create more value for the bitcoin. As bitcoin is manipulative, governments will surely try to manipulate and get benefited same as whales doing at present.

[bitbunnny]

When governments accumulate bitcoin, automatically the circulation will get disturbed. This will get reflected over the market of bitcoin. Same time the less supply apart from the bitcoin that's been accumulated will create increased demand for bitcoin. This will create more value for the bitcoin. As bitcoin is manipulative, governments will surely try to manipulate and get benefited same as whales doing at present.

I can agree that accumulation of Bitcoin done by governments could disturb the market. Simply because such accumulated amounts wouldn't be small and Bitcoin supply is limited. But that is just the theory, in real life governments have no intention to accumulate Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency.

[Leonardo7]

I believe they must be doing it in secret. What would be the advantage for North Korea, or Iran, to let everyone know that they are accumulating/mining/HODLING?

I would have thought countries like North Korea should have been accumulating or make the country a mining hub of bitcoin for her citizens in order to get off the hardship of many years of sanctions, but it appears little rocket man is more concerned about nuclear weapons than economic growth of his nation.

[Carlton Banks]

How many people own Bitcoin, and how much do they own? How can the government prove, and will the people declare it?

Better to tax people in fiat, and use that to subsidize Bitcoin buying/mining.

all they need to do is to regulate exchanges and force them to give a list of all transactions every user made. now it is not up to the "people" to want to pay their taxes or not, if they don't they are evading and that is illegal and can have jail time.

except if people are simply using Bitcoin as money. then it behaves far more like cash, the information as to who sold what to who doesn't necessarily exist.


and sure, people can be jailed (maybe even only because they refuse to disclose details of their BTC activities, which defies basic legal foundations, but it's all just a figleaf for surreptitious gangsterism anyway).

But I'm not paying these clown gangsters a single satoshi, and I'll still have all my money if I were ever released from any jail sentence.