If not a "store of value" or "medium of exchange" ...

[thirdprize]

then what is bitcoin?  A solution in search of a problem?

[migws]

then what is bitcoin?  A solution in search of a problem?

At first, Bitcoin was a way of confronting a centralized economy; now it is a way of earning thousands of traders and investors. Bitcoin is losing value as people forget the true purpose of the coin

[thirdprize]

then what is bitcoin?  A solution in search of a problem?

At first, Bitcoin was a way of confronting a centralized economy; now it is a way of earning thousands of traders and investors. Bitcoin is losing value as people forget the true purpose of the coin

Correct.  It it loses a third of its value in six months then ... it is not a good medium for investors or shopkeepers.

[gentlemand]

Those who aren't treating it like a speculative toy are treating it like an asset.

It's a long way from being an established store of value. I don't really think it'll ever be a medium of exchange in common use.

The virtues it has of being extremely hard to corrupt, impossible to confiscate, portable anywhere and requiring no one's permission are unique. That's plenty of solutions to problems right there.

[mk4]

Bitcoin could either be any of these, or all-together:

• Store of value
• Medium of exchange
• Speculative investment

That's what's actually good about it. No one decides what it's solely for. Different people have different needs. Not because maybe bitcoin is useless for you as a store of value because you're probably somewhere like in the US, but it doesn't mean it's useless for someone in an economically fucked up country like Venezuela. But at the same time, you think bitcoin is useless and isn't worth crap? Then go short it. It's simple as that. That's how open markets work.

[Darker45]

then what is bitcoin?  A solution in search of a problem?

In search of a problem? Really? We are on exactly opposite poles on this. I don't think you are sensitive enough of the problems pervading our society right now. I am seeing a lot of problems trying to get solved.

Do you think it is not a problem when you release all your personal information to the banks and the government agencies?

Do you think it is all right for these institutions to have control over you, and your life, and whatever you earn and spend for, and so on?

Is it not a problem if the central banks print billions worth of money out of thin air?

Do you not see it as a problem when the majority of government transactions are completely concealed from the public?

Do you not care that the value of what we call money right now is completely under the dictation of a few people up there?

[thirdprize]

Do you think it is not a problem when you release all your personal information to the banks and the government agencies?

Do you think it is all right for these institutions to have control over you, and your life, and whatever you earn and spend for, and so on?

Is it not a problem if the central banks print billions worth of money out of thin air?

Do you not see it as a problem when the majority of government transactions are completely concealed from the public?

Do you not care that the value of what we call money right now is completely under the dictation of a few people up there?

Apart from point three, in what way does Bitcoin fix these problems?  Cash is untraceable.  Every time you send or spend bitcoin you leave a part of the spiders web of where that money has been and where it is going.  Just because it isn't a bank account doesn't mean that you can't be traced.  You buy something, then they have your name and address.  You transfer money, then they presumably know who you are and why?  Who would you trust more, dark web markets and mixers or the government?  Silly question really.

[franky1]

bitcoin is a store of value. as it first needs to be a store of value to then be a medium of exchange.
by this i mean if having no value, people wont want to exchange it.

but people dont understand where the value comes from or what the value(financial) and values(function/feature) are

here is what a few people cant agree on.
some people just think that it has no purpose/function and is just a store of value.
this is usually the case in most peoples towns where they cant use bitcoin(as bitcoin, not converted) to buy food, rent, etc
this is where people need to do things in their towns to actually ask their local shops to try accepting bitcoin.
bitcoin is not some complex AI that can get on a plane or phone and talk to everyons local shops. people that actually want to use bitcoin locally need to actually be involved in getting retailers to adopt bitcoin


some people just think its value($) is based on being higher than the last person that bought it
by this i mean the common sense is when someone buys an asset they are reluctant to sell at a loss, so if everyone bought at $10k then they would all have the common sense to want to sell for $10,001+ and thus there would not be any/much orders below $10k
..

but what people dont realise is that the PRICE.. is NOT the VALUE($)
what people forget, dont know or dont understand is that when people buy btc they are not buying it 'at value'', same as gold. they are not buying it at value, they are buying it at a spot PRICE which is above value. and hoping value increases to ventually be abl to sell at a profit

imagine it like an iceburg in the ocean. people think that price and value is the tip of the iceburg. what they dont realise is the bit underwater is the value, holding it up. and the bit above the water(the iceburgs tip) is the price, which is speculative that can melt down or frost up, depending on the weather, environment.

then people need to know what builds up the value part.
yes over time its the acquisition costs. such as if it cost $9kto make btc. and after many months of speculative trading eventually the majority of trader have bought btc above $9 then the waterline becomes $9k knowing most wont sell below it unless it became cheaper to mine it blow $9k or those buying early on at cheap can sell for less at a profit.
eventually though, even when those early buyers sell, the next buyer has a higher line than previous people. so eventually the water line rises....

now to the main point.
too many stupid and gready people do not care about btc's values(function/features) and just care about it as a buy low sell high. but if btc only became speculative with no underlying values, nothing holding it up above a waterline.. then it will just sink. as thats what things like ponzi's are. things with no purpose done just to get a new person to buy for more than the last person.
in short.if people actually care about btc we should be caring about keeping bitcoins features and functions alive. not passing the value/valus off to some other network and using bitcoin as just a store. because if so, then yes that store would sink as it has nothing holding it up but vapour

[LeGaulois]

It shouldn't be a problem, the government has already all the information needed, what else? Your bank's statement history? They're not allowed in 99% of the countries, it's called financial privacy.

Otherwise, I agree with your points, unfortunately, most people involved in Bitcoin do not care about it. No matter what they say, Vires In numeris etc, etc, it's fake. They're interested only about the speculating side and don't even understand the basics. If a day BTC value goes to $20 you will see nobody anymore 

then what is bitcoin?  A solution in search of a problem?

At first, Bitcoin was a way of confronting a centralized economy; now it is a way of earning thousands of traders and investors. Bitcoin is losing value as people forget the true purpose of the coin

Correct.  It it loses a third of its value in six months then ... it is not a good medium for investors or shopkeepers.

Ah, you are the type of person who believes the success of Bitcoin can only be measured by its value. I would prefer to see the price as low as $1 and massively accepted than a $50k price but almost nobody using it, expect bizarre businesses

[Bountyhonter]

An anonymous programmer created a peer-to-peer, decentralized, mathematically scare, self-regulating, cryptographically secure, tamper-proof digital currency based on open-source software. Give the skeptics a break, bitcoin sounds straight out of a science fiction novel.

[gentlemand]

It was a great idea, but it has no future.

Pack it up, ladies. The verdict we've been waiting for has finally been delivered.

Speaking for myself at least I'll give it another 10 or so years but you're welcome to bail whenever you fancy.

[cr1776]

It was a great idea, but it has no future.

I heard similar on slashdot in July 2010 when it was around $0.10.   You are 9 years too late with the FUD.

[hatshepsut93]

then what is bitcoin?  A solution in search of a problem?

Different people have different opinions about what Bitcoin is, but in reality Bitcoin is easily both and more, because the whole point of Bitcoin is that people are free to use it however they like, without anyone else telling them what to do. I like the phrase "a solution in search of a problem", but it's not about Bitcoin, it's about blockchain technology and altcoins. They need to find a problem to justify existence, but Bitcoin doesn't have such need.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

A solution in search of a problem?

Ah, I used to hear that phrase on the old JREF forum when the skeptics would discuss bitcoin.  Frankly, I always agreed with them on that.  There's no way in hell a rational person would go out of his/her way to buy bitcoin in order to spend it on something that could easily be purchased with fiat.  But that's as far I'll go with that.  Because things aren't priced in bitcoin and people don't earn their paychecks in bitcoin, it's a lousy currency, aka "medium of exchange".  The average citizen has no trouble using a debit card, cash, or their smartphone to pay for things and also has little need for anonymity when paying for goods or services.

Bitcoin could be a store of value if it ever achieved stability.  As it is right now, it's an asset to be invested in.  It certainly could be a good currency if fiat ever failed. 

The few times I've spoken to fellow human beings about crypto and have felt compelled to describe its advantages, I've always mentioned that it's a form of money that's global, bank-less, government-less, and pseudo-anonymous.  If you're asking about its utility, I'd say it's great for paying for things from merchants that can't accept credit cards.  That could be crap on the dark or clear web.  It's also an excellent form of money for gambling with online casinos.

Bitcoin is far from useless.  Back before I discovered it (and I was late to the party), I voiced many of the same concerns.  I had to overcome some pretty extreme skepticism about it and I figured it was destined to go to $0.  It hasn't, and it's been about 5 years now since it crossed my radar.

[pereira4]

<...>

Incidentally, those that actually studied the fundamentals and knew what were doing since the early ages, were the ones that got the highest rewards in return. So on the big picture, knowledge pays. Someone that has heard Bitcoin on CNBC and saw how some idiot bought a lambo with it, may want to take a gamble, but chances are they will panic sell at a loss.

Off these people, a small % actually do research, and become long term holders, because that is what you become once you understand the fundamentals.

Bitcoin is essentially a set of rules, open and transparent, while being the opposite of a democracy, while remaining decentralized-inmutable at its core. THAT is what gives it value, everything else added on top is just an extra, that may or not last. Some people never grasp this even after years of being around here.

[franky1]

while being the opposite of a democracy,

bitcoin meant to be democratic, where individuals had equal choice and its the combined majority choice that chooses what rules should be.
the opposite of democracy is tyranny. which as you know bitcoin is becoming(core dominance).

but we need to fight against that, fight against those lead devs that only want btc to be store of value, fight against those that love high fee's when high fee's are not and will never be needed. and fight against devs who dont want competition/choice/freedom

[Duzter]

It doesn't need to be either store of value nor medium of exchange. From the use cases of bitcoin it is completely a multipurpose asset that has got varied usability. If someone prefer it to be a store of value, then it serves as a store of value. The same gets used as a medium of storage and further as a investment, trading asset, gambling token, etc. So we can't restrict bitcoin within two usage of store of value or medium of exchange.

[franky1]

It doesn't need to be either store of value nor medium of exchange. From the use cases of bitcoin it is completely a multipurpose asset that has got varied usability. If someone prefer it to be a store of value, then it serves as a store of value. The same gets used as a medium of storage and further as a investment, trading asset, gambling token, etc. So we can't restrict bitcoin within two usage of store of value or medium of exchange.

to even be a 'multipurpose asset' it needs to be both a store of value and a medium of exchange.
as i explained before if it holds no value people wont exchange it as its worthless.
and for people bing able to functionally exchange it. whilst able to do so affordably makes it a medium of exchange.
which by very definitions givs it a multipurpose.

trying to say it doesnt need to be. means your suggesting cutting out its purpose thus cutting out the very thing you describe it as, a multipurpose asset.
you cant have on without the other and you definetly cant say its multipurpose i your saying it should only have one purpose

by this. what i mean to say is by very definition and minimal function bitcoin does and should always be the minimum of both store of value and medium of exchange. as to its other utilities, they can be variable

[squatter]

then what is bitcoin?  A solution in search of a problem?

Bitcoin is money -- that's the bottom line. Some forms of money are better than others at specific functions, but all fit both categories (store of value and medium of exchange) to varying degrees.

Bitcoin's divisibility, portability, durability, fungibility and the difficulty of counterfeiting all make it an excellent medium of exchange. It just hasn't been widely adopted as that. Even the Federal Reserve banks can acknowledge it is a medium of exchange, though:

To be an effective medium of exchange, money must be acceptable in exchange for goods and services. Bitcoin can be used as a medium of exchange for a limited number of goods. Bitcoin's credibility as a medium of exchange was enhanced when Richard Branson accepted Bitcoin from the Winklevoss twins for a ride on his spacecraft. While the number of companies that accept payment in Bitcoin has been growing, these transactions still represent a tiny part of the economy.

The store of value discussion is a bit more complex. On one hand, Bitcoin has historically retained its purchasing power extraordinarily well -- one of the best performing assets of our time. On the other hand, it clearly lacks the stability that some people feel is necessary to qualify it as an SOV. This should be expected in the bootstrapping phase.

[boyptc]

It was a great idea, but it has no future.

Oh come on, accept the fact that there's still a lot of things that bitcoin can show us in the future.

Have you sold your stack already?