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Author Topic: 50K bidwall at 2.30 - Crash over?  (Read 7359 times)
BadBear
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November 15, 2011, 02:07:23 PM
 #41

No point really, I just dislike seeing blanket statements calling people stupid and idiots for being the victim of a crime, but some people are just like that I suppose. 

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November 15, 2011, 02:25:56 PM
 #42

Unfortunately this type of behavior is what makes it unattractive for vendors to accept BTC for purchases. Such volatility means they will not be able to accept BTC for purchases without say a 20% surcharge in order to hedge their bets against losses. You cannot pay your rent or taxes with Bitcoins. At least not anywhere I know. I bet this speculator is on this board and is one of the people trying to drive the price down to $1.50 or lower. Still based on previous data we could see a genuine increase back above $3 in the next couple of days.

Sadly this is correct.  The price of BTC is irrelevant for a merchant the volatility is what matters.  Small amounts of volatility can be easily hedged giving a merchant stable pricing power.  The 20%+ moves in span of seconds kills the utility of Bitcoin as a medium of exchange.  Hopefully increased volume will eventually dampen these moves. 

The one small bright spot is that the value "only" moves 30% which is interesting given the massive volume.  We had larger volume and a smaller drop than prior single day crashes.  I can only hope this trend continues because the current volatility makes BTC little more than a plaything for speculators.
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November 15, 2011, 02:29:48 PM
 #43

Just made 10% off that last "crash" to $2.20  Grin  I really like this "manipulator" guy.

I have 0 invested but when I go to sell the coins I made mining it would be nice if they were worth something lol. Still lets see what happens over the next few days. Quite frankly Im surprised MtGox hasnt suspended this account for causing so much volatility but i guess they dont care since they get a cut off every transaction anyways.

if you want to hedge your mined coins, then why not short them on bitcoinica?!

go there, put like.. 100BTC on it, sell 200, w8 untill next chrash, liquidate -> profit from the cheaper coins you pay back to bitcoinica.

that speculation just made me 275%. if i was a miner, i would hedge my mined bitcoins against worth-loosing with a short position, OR at least don't sell any of them until prices are up again, probably happening after the ~1$  low within the next 2-3 months.

greets



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November 15, 2011, 05:44:47 PM
 #44

No point really, I just dislike seeing blanket statements calling people stupid and idiots for being the victim of a crime, but some people are just like that I suppose.  

I don't like it when innocent people are the victim of a crime either, but it doesn't turn me into a blithering, weepy mess. Just because you seem so willing to give your money away to those who do not think twice about sending their credit card details to a Nigeran Prince in exchange for $1 million, does not give you the moral high ground.

The chargeback process can be easily abused and is wide open to serious fraud itself, which gives scammers an even greater ability to defraud honest businesses out of money. And there is very little they can do about it, while stupid people can always be educated.

A fool and his money are easily parted. We should be trying to educate people to help them understand the best ways to keep their money safe and avoid scams in the first place, not give them the freedom to spend it as stupidly as possible and actively disincentivize financial prudence, while the rest of us are forced to foot the bill.

Crime can (and should) be dealt with by the legal system... not the financial system.

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November 15, 2011, 05:51:50 PM
 #45

No point really, I just dislike seeing blanket statements calling people stupid and idiots for being the victim of a crime, but some people are just like that I suppose. 

Nobody likes it when innocent people are the victim of a crime either, but it doesn't turn me into a blithering, weepy mess. Just because you seem so willing to give your money away to those who do not think twice about sending their credit card details to a Nigeran Prince in exchange for $1 million, does not give you the moral high ground.

A fool and his money is easily parted - we should be trying to help people understand the best ways to keep their money safe, not give them the freedom to spend it as stupidly as possible while the rest of us are forced to foot the bill.

Crime can (and should) be dealt with by the legal system... not the financial system.

The mainstream financial system is a crime purported on the bottom 99%. Fiat currency is hidden slavery and we should all be up in arms about it but it seems only a few are willing to protest. I agree though that crime should be dealt with by the legal system but I don't know if the police would even bother filling out a report for stolen bitcoins. From my experience cops only go after violent crimes and it seems the financial crimes by and large go unpunished. Its too much work for the police despite their excessively high salaries. Maybe we need a seperate police force just to deal with financial crimes?
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November 15, 2011, 05:58:02 PM
 #46

Looks like the manipulator is not able to push the price higher, his current position is getting chewed on right now. I do not know how long he will hold his bidwall there.

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November 15, 2011, 06:04:09 PM
 #47

The point of the bidwall is the opposite of what you think it is. It is not to hold the price up, it is to trigger panic sells. Notice that last night there was a single sell of something like 10000 BTC between 2.45 and 2.2. Let's say the average price was 2.3. Now the same seller is propping up 2.2. Any buys at 2.2 are profit for them because they just sold at 2.3. But even better, when things look ripe, they can drop the wall, and maybe kick start things with a little sell of 500 or so coins. Let the price plummit and then buy their same 10000 BTC back on the cheap as everyone panics.

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November 15, 2011, 06:07:20 PM
 #48

The point of the bidwall is the opposite of what you think it is. It is not to hold the price up, it is to trigger panic sells. Notice that last night there was a single sell of something like 10000 BTC between 2.45 and 2.2. Let's say the average price was 2.3. Now the same seller is propping up 2.2. Any buys at 2.2 are profit for them because they just sold at 2.3. But even better, when things look ripe, they can drop the wall, and maybe kick start things with a little sell of 500 or so coins. Let the price plummit and then buy their same 10000 BTC back on the cheap as everyone panics.

This is what I have been saying. This person/group is getting a lot more coins by causing these swift drops, selling at the higher prices and buying at the low. Either that or they are manipulating the market to get some money out while maintaining their coin levels. I do not think this is someone cashing out but rather skimming off the top.
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November 15, 2011, 06:12:55 PM
 #49

No point really, I just dislike seeing blanket statements calling people stupid and idiots for being the victim of a crime, but some people are just like that I suppose. 

While it is not right to say someone is an idiot for being the victim of a crime, it is, unfortunately, more often the case than not that they were a victim because they are an idiot.  Or more charitably, made some mistakes which in hindsight (and foresight to some) were fairly obviously mistakes.


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November 15, 2011, 07:27:24 PM
 #50

The point of the bidwall is the opposite of what you think it is. It is not to hold the price up, it is to trigger panic sells. Notice that last night there was a single sell of something like 10000 BTC between 2.45 and 2.2. Let's say the average price was 2.3. Now the same seller is propping up 2.2. Any buys at 2.2 are profit for them because they just sold at 2.3. But even better, when things look ripe, they can drop the wall, and maybe kick start things with a little sell of 500 or so coins. Let the price plummit and then buy their same 10000 BTC back on the cheap as everyone panics.

This is what I have been saying. This person/group is getting a lot more coins by causing these swift drops, selling at the higher prices and buying at the low. Either that or they are manipulating the market to get some money out while maintaining their coin levels. I do not think this is someone cashing out but rather skimming off the top.

I agree with you. this person probably is a very experienced trader with one of the highest capitalization in the bitcoin exchanges, and he uses this to his advantage.
It would take a few additional highly capitalized traders / investors to show him that the game is over.
But it does not seem like a lot of new traders / investors are getting into bitcoins...

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November 15, 2011, 07:50:46 PM
 #51

At least the price is still above the October 19th low. Wink

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November 15, 2011, 08:46:44 PM
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November 15, 2011, 08:51:27 PM
 #53



+1

Thank you for the laugh, sir.

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November 15, 2011, 08:55:40 PM
 #54

roflmao

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they keep laughing, then they start choking on their laughter, and then they go and catch their breath. Then they start laughing even more.
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November 15, 2011, 10:35:36 PM
 #55

That was the best laugh I have had in a while. Thank you proudhon! Cheesy

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November 15, 2011, 10:52:00 PM
 #56

The point of the bidwall is the opposite of what you think it is. It is not to hold the price up, it is to trigger panic sells. Notice that last night there was a single sell of something like 10000 BTC between 2.45 and 2.2. Let's say the average price was 2.3. Now the same seller is propping up 2.2. Any buys at 2.2 are profit for them because they just sold at 2.3. But even better, when things look ripe, they can drop the wall, and maybe kick start things with a little sell of 500 or so coins. Let the price plummit and then buy their same 10000 BTC back on the cheap as everyone panics.

This is what I have been saying. This person/group is getting a lot more coins by causing these swift drops, selling at the higher prices and buying at the low. Either that or they are manipulating the market to get some money out while maintaining their coin levels. I do not think this is someone cashing out but rather skimming off the top.


The record volume, ~375k BTC is almost double the old record (which was closer to ~200k BTC).  That seems to me to be a game-changer.  If this volume was mostly someone trading with him/herself (phantom volume of a manipulator), or otherwise normal volume of market-makers, then why was it never this high before?

If we assume that this is not normal or faux volume, then we conclude that some BTC was traded.  Someone cashed out, and someone else cashed in, and unless the price stalls here, there will be a wrong side of that trade.

Seems to me that the market is panic selling before $1.xx (near record volume the last big dip a month ago, mostly around $3 and bottoming at $2.04, and again in huge record volume mostly around $2.50 and bottoming at $2.10).


If a lot are waiting to buy in the $1's (and it seems to me that they are), who will be there panic selling in the $1's?  Early adopters and Mr. Manipulator?  hah.  The joe bitcoin who was manipulated into buying at $2.28 by a bid wall at $2.20?  Is he gonna panic sell at $1.50?

I call bottom.  (could be wrong - $1.5 btc for xmas?)


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November 15, 2011, 11:17:42 PM
 #57

Seriously, you guys haven't figure it out yet?  The bet this guy is making is that the impressive amounts of cash he puts up will induce confidence in people such that they place bids ahead of his large bids.  He then drops his bids and sells into the bids that built up ahead of his.  Rinse, repeat.  He's cashing out, not getting in.


I don't buy this.  $100k bluff bids would be a risky way of 'cashing out'.  Dude is buying bitcoin.

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November 15, 2011, 11:21:13 PM
 #58


The record volume, ~375k BTC is almost double the old record (which was closer to ~200k BTC).  That seems to me to be a game-changer.  If this volume was mostly someone trading with him/herself (phantom volume of a manipulator), or otherwise normal volume of market-makers, then why was it never this high before?


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November 16, 2011, 12:03:23 AM
 #59

Seriously, you guys haven't figure it out yet?  The bet this guy is making is that the impressive amounts of cash he puts up will induce confidence in people such that they place bids ahead of his large bids.  He then drops his bids and sells into the bids that built up ahead of his.  Rinse, repeat.  He's cashing out, not getting in.


I don't buy this.  $100k bluff bids would be a risky way of 'cashing out'.  Dude is buying bitcoin.

You do realize that this is exactly what you are supposed to think? Don't fall for it.

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November 16, 2011, 12:23:03 AM
 #60

You do realize that this is exactly what you are supposed to think? Don't fall for it.

Put panic into the eyes of the sheep with a mild 25-50k sell off, drop the value 20-30%, buy 25-50k coins back around $1 less, profit 30-40k USD, maintain BTC balance, rinse, repeat.

By continuing to support bitcoin, you are continuing to allow this to happen. So many people are capable of doing what was done today. Stop supporting bitcoin. If the volume of real money entering this system increases and the price rises, it is just another fantastic opportunity to be an early adopter and take that money from you. Too few people are capable of always controlling so much of the supply. It is a farce.

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