BITCOIN LOTTERY!!!!

[legolouman]

Okay everyone, I'd like to hold my first Lottery. I'm also going to do this as simply as possible.

I'd like to consider this auction LIVE on 11/15/2011, and the drawing will go down 11/30/2011, or share 500, whichever comes first. This adds a lot of room for a HUGE pot.

Tickets A share will cost .01 BTC. Each share will essentially be a ticket, for each share, you will get a share number. Share numbers will be PM'd after a payment is received (obviously, you must tell me your address). There is no share limit, so if you really want, you could buy all 500 shares, if you really chose to. Send payments to the Lottery Address

Drawing I will do the drawing on November 30th 2011, or share 500, whichever comes first. I'm going to do a random.org drawing, and it will choose the share number that wins. As far as I'm aware random.org is open source, and legit. The drawing will be FILMED and uploaded, as proof. Exact time of drawing TBD, mostly because of upload times on the video clip.

Winnings As for the winner, one of your shares must be the one chosen, and your winnings will be paid out approximately on 11/30-11/31, to the Address of your choice.

Just to address the obvious, "What if he's lying, cheating, etc?" Well it's only a .01 per ticket, and with a 5BTC max pot, what could you lose in my trial run?
For my first auction, I'm not putting ANY fees on. It's merely to see the communities reception.
If you have any questions, comments, complaints, suggestions, etc. Contact me.

Lottery address: 1EfhfY1V6bf16FJ5f6pfcYkCAS5WQgvxvi

[1714829999]

1714829999

[deepceleron]

If I send 4.99 but lose, I might have suspicions...
Or when I buy all 500 from separate addresses..

[BurtW]

You are going to send 500 personal messages with entry numbers and you are not going to charge anything for your time?  That sounds like is a lot of work.
 
http://bitlotto.com  has a fully automated, totally transparent lottery system in place.  The winning ticket is picked automatically from all the entries using the transaction id for the entry ticket number.  The winning ticket number is based on the winning numbers from a public lottery so it is fair and easy to verify that the choice was random and the correct person gets paid.  Also all ticket entries are public and the number of entries sold is publicly available in the block explorer.

If you are going to start a lottery system you should really check it out

[legolouman]

If I send 4.99 but lose, I might have suspicions...
Or when I buy all 500 from separate addresses..

If you bought 499-500 or the tickets, and lost, I'd have suspicions of myself. The odds of losing would be negligible.

You are going to send 500 personal messages with entry numbers and you are not going to charge anything for your time?  That sounds like is a lot of work.
 
http://bitlotto.com  has a fully automated, totally transparent lottery system in place.  The winning ticket is picked automatically from all the entries using the transaction id for the entry ticket number.  The winning ticket number is based on the winning numbers from a public lottery so it is fair and easy to verify that the choice was random and the correct person gets paid.  Also all ticket entries are public and the number of entries sold is publicly available in the block explorer.

If you are going to start a lottery system you should really check it out

I have looked into it, it is indeed a very nice lottery, but I wanted to have a little experiment with it myself. My way may not be automated, but I think it is still fair and fun. A lot of work? Sure, but I wanted to give it a try.

[legolouman]

Just want to update everyone, to solve confusion, if you want to purchase tickets, send them to the lotto address, not my personal one.

[SgtSpike]

Filmed and uploaded <> proof.  You need to do it live, and here's why:

- Film drawing #1:  Ticket 294 won.  Eh, don't like that, will refilm and redraw.
- Film drawing #2:  Ticket 166 won.  Sure, sounds good, I'll keep that and upload it.

The only thing I can think of is you could predetermine a certain time when the drawing will be done (say, 5:00:00), then click the randomize button at exactly 5:00:00 while showing time.gov in the background as proof of the current time.

I don't have any reason to not trust you with your drawing, but if you want to provide proof of no hanky panky going on, it'd better be real proof!

[legolouman]

Filmed and uploaded <> proof.  You need to do it live, and here's why:

- Film drawing #1:  Ticket 294 won.  Eh, don't like that, will refilm and redraw.
- Film drawing #2:  Ticket 166 won.  Sure, sounds good, I'll keep that and upload it.

The only thing I can think of is you could predetermine a certain time when the drawing will be done (say, 5:00:00), then click the randomize button at exactly 5:00:00 while showing time.gov in the background as proof of the current time.

I don't have any reason to not trust you with your drawing, but if you want to provide proof of no hanky panky going on, it'd better be real proof!

I understand that if I were buying tickets, or have an influence on the pot. I may do that in the future. For now, when I have no reason to influence the outcome, why would I? Live streams can be REALLY iffy some times. I'd also like to point out, that in that case, why are other Lottery Organizations more successful? Claiming to have an automated drawing system on a huge pot is cool and all, but who really wins?

[FreeMoney]

Filmed and uploaded <> proof.  You need to do it live, and here's why:

- Film drawing #1:  Ticket 294 won.  Eh, don't like that, will refilm and redraw.
- Film drawing #2:  Ticket 166 won.  Sure, sounds good, I'll keep that and upload it.

The only thing I can think of is you could predetermine a certain time when the drawing will be done (say, 5:00:00), then click the randomize button at exactly 5:00:00 while showing time.gov in the background as proof of the current time.

I don't have any reason to not trust you with your drawing, but if you want to provide proof of no hanky panky going on, it'd better be real proof!

I understand that if I were buying tickets, or have an influence on the pot. I may do that in the future. For now, when I have no reason to influence the outcome, why would I? Live streams can be REALLY iffy some times. I'd also like to point out, that in that case, why are other Lottery Organizations more successful? Claiming to have an automated drawing system on a huge pot is cool and all, but who really wins?

The point is no one knows if you are playing or not. There is already a bitcoin lottery so secure that the operator could play it with no problems. You might be interested to see how it's done. It's nice that you want to offer something but it's not going to work like this.

[deepceleron]

Bitcoin has a random number generator that is not falsifiable and is widely available for all to verify. What you do is, say: ticket numbers are 0-499, winning ticket matches the last three digits of the nonce of block 155620 - (2016 blocks from now, should be ~14 days/Nov 30). Subtract -500 from nonce if last three digits over 499. Or (nonce)Mod(number_of_tickets) for an arbitrary number of tickets.

{
  "hash":"000000000000052292e0b44756ec93c37d9fa4e974c82b10f205cedfc241986b",
  "ver":1,
  "prev_block":"0000000000000434485ebbffcde54b1870c9598f2d5e50b3859770282a15d690",
  "mrkl_root":"2b537a8fec565e7ff4e1a535becb17f5edee621c01f15bfa3361b0041a43ddf1",
  "time":1321483525,
  "bits":437129626,
  "nonce":958058163,

Then people need to actually know what "ticket number" they got, a receipt should be digitally signed by raffle holder and include the number(s) and address that a winning payment would be sent to if won, so any claims of nonpayment can be verified as legitimate. The public key of the raffle holder should be held in an immutable location.

Then there is the "I sent payment but never got a ticket", or "raffle holder disappeared". Someone looking to exit the community with some profit could pocket everything and disappear if the the balance is not held in escrow (see mybitcoin.com).

[SgtSpike]

Filmed and uploaded <> proof.  You need to do it live, and here's why:

- Film drawing #1:  Ticket 294 won.  Eh, don't like that, will refilm and redraw.
- Film drawing #2:  Ticket 166 won.  Sure, sounds good, I'll keep that and upload it.

The only thing I can think of is you could predetermine a certain time when the drawing will be done (say, 5:00:00), then click the randomize button at exactly 5:00:00 while showing time.gov in the background as proof of the current time.

I don't have any reason to not trust you with your drawing, but if you want to provide proof of no hanky panky going on, it'd better be real proof!

I understand that if I were buying tickets, or have an influence on the pot. I may do that in the future. For now, when I have no reason to influence the outcome, why would I? Live streams can be REALLY iffy some times. I'd also like to point out, that in that case, why are other Lottery Organizations more successful? Claiming to have an automated drawing system on a huge pot is cool and all, but who really wins?

How can anyone verify that you're not in cahoots with one of the entrants, guaranteeing that you'll give them the win if they will give you back half the winnings?

That's the sort of argument you have to figure out how to protect yourself from.

[SgtSpike]

Bitcoin has a random number generator that is not falsifiable and is widely available for all to verify. What you do is, say: ticket numbers are 0-499, winning ticket matches the last three digits of the nonce of block 155620 - (2016 blocks from now, should be ~14 days/Nov 30). Subtract -500 from nonce if last three digits over 499.

{
  "hash":"000000000000052292e0b44756ec93c37d9fa4e974c82b10f205cedfc241986b",
  "ver":1,
  "prev_block":"0000000000000434485ebbffcde54b1870c9598f2d5e50b3859770282a15d690",
  "mrkl_root":"2b537a8fec565e7ff4e1a535becb17f5edee621c01f15bfa3361b0041a43ddf1",
  "time":1321483525,
  "bits":437129626,
  "nonce":958058163,

Then people need to actually know what "ticket number" they got, a receipt should be digitally signed by raffle holder and include the number(s) and address that a winning payment would be sent to if won, so any claims of nonpayment can be verified as legitimate. The public key of the raffle holder should be held in an immutable location.

Then there is the "I sent payment but never got a ticket", or "raffle holder disappeared". Someone looking to exit the community with some profit could pocket everything and disappear if the the balance is not held in escrow (see mybitcoin.com).

There's a problem with that though - a miner could target a specific nonce number while mining for the block.  If they win the block, they also win the lottery!

[deepceleron]

There's a problem with that though - a miner could target a specific nonce number while mining for the block.  If they win the block, they also win the lottery!

Good luck with that one! Even if you were deepbit, the nonce is randomly created by all mining software and is not 'forceable'. You would have to write a custom pushpool and custom mining software that would move the 'noncing' into the coinbase or such, and have Thash/s, to even have a whimper of a chance.

256 tickets and the last two digits of the hash then.

[legolouman]

I understand your points, opinions, and reasons not to participate. As of now, there are no participants, I actually wish it stays that way, due to the fact that I'm not going to redevelop a system just to have an experiment. I will continue to run the Lottery, to fulfill my obligation. I won't defend myself, my method, or my reason to hold the Lottery.

Good Day sirs.

[SgtSpike]

There's a problem with that though - a miner could target a specific nonce number while mining for the block.  If they win the block, they also win the lottery!

Good luck with that one! Even if you were deepbit, the nonce is randomly created by all mining software and is not 'forceable'. You would have to write a custom pushpool and custom mining software that would move the 'noncing' into the coinbase or such, and have Thash/s, to even have a whimper of a chance.

256 tickets and the last two digits of the hash then.

Oh, I realize the chances are very remote.  But everything should be accounted for - every risk should be mitigated, however small.  I realize that it is not a big deal with a jackpot of 5 BTC, but for a larger lottery, it should definitely be taken into consideration!

I understand your points, opinions, and reasons not to participate. As of now, there are no participants, I actually wish it stays that way, due to the fact that I'm not going to redevelop a system just to have an experiment. I will continue to run the Lottery, to fulfill my obligation. I won't defend myself, my method, or my reason to hold the Lottery.

Good Day sirs.

Hey, I am just trying to help you achieve complete transparency and trust with your lottery!  I understand the risks are small with a small jackpot, etc, just wanted to give you some things to think about.  I am not meaning to attack the way you want to run your lottery, or tell you that it has to be done one way or the other.  How you run it is entirely up to you.