Is it possible for a token creator to take back the tokens sent to someone

[Bountyhonter]

I am having an argument with some people and they said that an Ecr20 token creator removed a token from one of their wallet and i told them that tokens that has been sent cannot be withdrawn back as long as they're the only ones with their private key but they don't believe me.

I want to send them a link to this thread with opinions of crypto experts in this forum so we can know who is right.

[odolvlobo]

It depends on the token. Bitcoin, no. EOS, yes. Others, maybe.

[teeboss]

it can on erc20 depending on the smart contract I guess

[Bossalex12]

from my understanding, it depends on how the smart contract of the token/coin is created, and in some cases [name of project withheld ] though minor, it is possible the developer(s) can unsolicitedly debit a user for a token. It may be arguable if this is right or wrong though, and if the developers have such rights to do that

[Bountyhonter]

It depends on the token. Bitcoin, no. EOS, yes. Others, maybe.

It's an Ecr20 token

[Loganota]

The blockchain was created to prevent this. Under normal conditions, it is not possible for anyone to reverse a transaction, when trying to make a double spend, the currency protocol identifies that this transaction does not follow the rules and discards. It is possible for anyone to create a blockchain of some currency by rolling back and undoing transactions, the problem being that you would have to convince the rest of the world that this was correct and that they should follow your blockchain.
This happened to Ethereum in 2016 when there was a token hack called "The DAO" and many ETHs were stolen, the creator of Ethereum undone this theft transaction and the chain went on from there. Many people agreed with this and others did not, so Ethereum Classic (ETC) was created that is nothing but ETH with transactions intact.
Doing so is a very risky move, as many defend the immutability of the network even if there are cases such as theft, and in doing so much of the value of the coin can be lost. Moreover, in this case, it has been proved that there is no decentralization. In cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin I can't see something like this happening.

[Bossalex12]

from my understanding, it depends on how the smart contract of the token/coin is created, and in some cases [name of project withheld ] though minor, it is possible the developer(s) can unsolicitedly debit a user for a token. It may be arguable if this is right or wrong though, and if the developers have such rights to do that

moreover, i think this flaws the concept of Decentralization and blockchain, and as such would taunt the name of the project(s) in question, that would be bad for business

[dothebeats]

It is possible depending on the conditions laid out by the developers in the event of something uneventful (like the ETH events that saw the creation of ETH Classic)--or simply put, if the algorithm of the whole token/coin allows such rollbacks to happen without that much of an effort, else the developers would need the cooperation of the community to do the rollback. This usually leads to a hardfork when the whole network can't reach into a consensus, and again this depends on the consensus rules of the coin/token. In bitcoin, you need at least 51% to undo a certain transaction and split the chain whereas on other tokens/coins I'm not entirely sure of.

[CryptopreneurBrainboss]

I am having an argument with some people and they said that a token creator removed a token from one of their wallet and i told them that tokens that has been sent cannot be withdrawn back as long as they're the only ones with their private key but they don't believe me.

Seems the answer here is very clear from the highlighted statement above. I presume this incident was recorded via bounty payment since we have recorded numerous report of such scenario occuring in the forum, where bounty hunters token's get withdrawal by the tokens creators or they get restrict form accessing their tokens. The issue here isn't about the token's blockchain instead it's about the wallets.

So here's my answer, wallets controlled by token creators especially web wallets can be access at any point by them and tokens can be withdrawn without your notice but in regards to tokens blockchain, it all depends on how the blockchain was created to function (like users above have explained).

[Bountyhonter]

I am having an argument with some people and they said that a token creator removed a token from one of their wallet and i told them that tokens that has been sent cannot be withdrawn back as long as they're the only ones with their private key but they don't believe me.

Seems the answer here is very clear from the highlighted statement above. I presume this incident was recorded via bounty payment since we have recorded numerous report of such scenario occuring in the forum, where bounty hunters token's get withdrawal by the tokens creators or their wallets get blocked. The issue here isn't about the token's blockchain instead it's about the wallets.

So here's my answer, wallets controlled by token creators especially web wallets can be access at any point and tokens can be withdrawn without your notice but in regards to tokens blockchain, it all depends on how the blockchain was created to function (like users above have explained).

In this case the guy claims that the token was sent to his personal ethereum wallet

[CryptopreneurBrainboss]

In this case the guy claims that the token was sent to his personal ethereum wallet

Was there a confirmation from the token creators that they were responsible for the transfer of the token from his wallet? Or did similar experience happened to others? If yes then that's how such projects operates.

But if no confirmation has been received from the token creator that they're responsible then that your friend's wallet is compromised. Also in times of swapping users can also experience this although in this case a second token would be recieved depending upon the sharing formula for the new token.

[Velkro]

It depends on the token. Bitcoin, no. EOS, yes. Others, maybe.

Good point. Token can work on its own rules. Bitcoin have well known rules because its most popular crypto.
But Token XYZ you want to invest your hard earned money can have no limited supply, co in time your investment will be less valuable. Creator can have power to take any amount of tokens with 'master password'/smart contract whatever rules he set. Thats why its important you know in what you exactly investing. Bitcoin is proven, fair and decentralised. Can't say that about any other coin.

[magneto]

I am having an argument with some people and they said that an Ecr20 token creator removed a token from one of their wallet and i told them that tokens that has been sent cannot be withdrawn back as long as they're the only ones with their private key but they don't believe me.

I want to send them a link to this thread with opinions of crypto experts in this forum so we can know who is right.

It shouldn't be possible as long as the transaction is confirmed beforehand. ETH is a decentralised blockchain, which means that the token creator simply does not have the sovereignty to reverse transactions at will, even if it concerns tokens that they issue themselves.

It is very likely that the person you're arguing with simply got confused somehow, or never received funds in the first place.

If it was a centralised ledger, then it COULD be done. But not for ERC20 tokens to the best of my knowledge.

[apoorvlathey]

It shouldn't be possible as long as the transaction is confirmed beforehand. ETH is a decentralised blockchain, which means that the token creator simply does not have the sovereignty to reverse transactions at will, even if it concerns tokens that they issue themselves.

It is very likely that the person you're arguing with simply got confused somehow, or never received funds in the first place.

If it was a centralised ledger, then it COULD be done. But not for ERC20 tokens to the best of my knowledge.

It is absolutely possible for the Ethereum token developer to take tokens from anyone's account if he has made such functionality in the smart contract's code.
It does not mean he is "reversing" the transaction, he just executed some code in smart contract that allows him to change other's balances.

For people who are not aware of how a token works, here are the details:

1. The developer writes code (say in solidity language) for a smart contract, that when deployed on Ethereum blockchain creates a token and follows instructions defined in it.
2. The developer has full flexibility to allocate x number of coins to himself or any other address. He can even define some functions that can alter anyone's balance as per his, considering he is the creator of this code.
3. (technical) There is a hash map that maps the number of tokens to a particular address (assume 2d array with key-value pair instead of indexes). You can change its value as you would change any other variables'.


Btw, ERC20 token standard also has defined a function to allow someone to send 'y' number of tokens from another account, provided he has been provided allowance by the owner for the same.

[creepyjas]

I am having an argument with some people and they said that an Ecr20 token creator removed a token from one of their wallet and i told them that tokens that has been sent cannot be withdrawn back as long as they're the only ones with their private key but they don't believe me.

I want to send them a link to this thread with opinions of crypto experts in this forum so we can know who is right.

Depending on the ERC20 contract, I guess. Some ICO’s back then with failed operations or distribution of tokens were able to take their token back and distribute a new replacement token. I experienced it with one of the campaigns I joined.

[o_e_l_e_o]

-snip-

This is the right answer.

The creator of a token can code anything he or she desires in to that token's code. The vast vast majority of users who buy tokens do not read the code of the token they are buying. A similar overwhelming majority probably do not have the knowledge required to be able to understand the code if they were to read it. Unless OP or someone else involved in this dispute can read the code of the token in question and say categorically that the creator has not given themselves the ability to move coins around at will, then the person in OP's post who says coins were removed with their consent could very well be correct.

If you are thinking "Surely this could never happen", I would suggest you have a read up about the coin Oyster Pearl (PRL). Its contract had a function allowing the developer to re-open it for ICO, essentially allowing him to create new coins out of thin air at will. He did, gave himself 3 million tokens instantly, dumped them all on the market, and disappeared with an estimated $300,000 in profit. This coin was heavily shilled across social media, with thousands of people owning it and several major exchanges listing it, but yet no one had picked up this major flaw in the smart contract.

As odolvlobo has pointed out above, even some "major" coins (in terms of marketcap ranking, which is inherently flawed, but that's a whole 'nother discussion), have this ability built in to them. Anybody and everybody's EOS tokens can be frozen, transferred, seized or confiscated by the all-powerful "Block Producers", and there is nothing you can do about it.

[Herbet Fry]

I always thought it was permanent. If you using an eth smart contract you should not be able to change peoples balances. I really don't know what that means. How does a dev change peoples balances?
I know devs can have a premine then just dump it all and run if they like. I have never heard of tokens disappearing from wallets or devs making new tokens on the fly. I wish people would post some source links.

[enhu]

It depends on the token. Bitcoin, no. EOS, yes. Others, maybe.

EOS really?

What kind of kind would really be designing a smart contract with the reversible transaction?
Haven't encounter such cryptocurrency. If EOS has this feature, it would be interesting to see what plans do they have upon having such feature to the chain. I can only think of paypal scams once again which the stories being told many times in forums.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Yes, EOS.

EOS is a centralized pile of trash. It isn't decentralized at all. Their entire blockchain is maintained by 21 carefully selected so called "Block Producers". These block producers have the power to do anything they like to the blockchain - freeze your wallets, reverse your transactions, even seize your coins. This has happened in the past, with the block producers taking coins away from one user and giving them to another. There is no way to challenge this, and there is no oversight. The block producers also print thousands of new EOS every day and award it to themselves as a reward for having complete control over your coins.

With EOS you are holding an inflationary token which is constantly being devalued and can be taken away from you at any time. It's even worse than fiat. At least banks are regulated and have rules they must follow. The block producers don't.

This is completely common knowledge. A simple Google search will confirm everything I have said above. If you are unaware of it, then I hope you haven't spent any money on EOS because it means you haven't done the bare minimum amount of research.

[Eugenar]

Yes, EOS.

EOS is a centralized pile of trash. It isn't decentralized at all. Their entire blockchain is maintained by 21 carefully selected so called "Block Producers". These block producers have the power to do anything they like to the blockchain - freeze your wallets, reverse your transactions, even seize your coins. This has happened in the past, with the block producers taking coins away from one user and giving them to another. There is no way to challenge this, and there is no oversight. The block producers also print thousands of new EOS every day and award it to themselves as a reward for having complete control over your coins.

With EOS you are holding an inflationary token which is constantly being devalued and can be taken away from you at any time. It's even worse than fiat. At least banks are regulated and have rules they must follow. The block producers don't.

This is completely common knowledge. A simple Google search will confirm everything I have said above. If you are unaware of it, then I hope you haven't spent any money on EOS because it means you haven't done the bare minimum amount of research.

Then the fundamentals of blockchain isn't there. Blockchain was made for the contribution of others, not to manipulate the transactions, and for the security of the assets. If these 21 people can somewhat control their blockchain, the essence of decentralization isn't present.

Going back to the main topic, can say, that, if token creator can take back tokens that was already send, is it  also possible for token/crypto sender to take back payment that was already made?