Suggestion For More Effective Flag Format

[TECSHARE]

Reading thru some of these flags, it is often extremely difficult to get thru all of the back and forth bickering to examine the facts. Usually a self moderated thread would be the solution, but self moderated threads cannot be the basis for flags. I would like to suggest that flag creators create TWO threads, one which has open discussion upon which the flag is linked to, and another self moderated thread where the flag creator and the harmed parties build a log of nothing but factual information. Anything in the thread can be quoted in the open thread, and the self moderated thread should be linked in the op of the flag thread. Reading through 100 pages of nonsense to try to find the facts is simply untenable. This way open discussion is still possible, but the tactic of brute force shit posting can't be used to bury relevant information.

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[AB de Royse777]

~snip~
another self moderated thread where the flag creator and the harmed parties build a log of nothing but factual information.

From my experience I have never experienced that smooth factual back and forth information exchange in two opponents yet. It always ends up with a mess :-P

By the way, I get the idea of your point but really not sure if this will reduce the hassle and do any better. With the self mod there will always be the accusation that the thread was manipulated by the OP.

[TECSHARE]

~snip~
another self moderated thread where the flag creator and the harmed parties build a log of nothing but factual information.

From my experience I have never experienced that smooth factual back and forth information exchange in two opponents yet. It always ends up with a mess :-P

By the way, I get the idea of your point but really not sure if this will reduce the hassle and do any better. With the self mod there will always be the accusation that the thread was manipulated by the OP.

Of course, but they still have every opportunity to defend themselves not only in the flag thread, but if they like with their own self moderated thread. That is the point of combining the two ideas.

[Upgrade00]

I would like to suggest that flag creators create TWO threads, one which has open discussion upon which the flag is linked to, and another self moderated thread where the flag creator and the harmed parties build a log of nothing but factual information.

It's not a bad idea, but if the flag creator moderates the thread, there would be accusation of bias by the party the flag was created against. And those viewing the thread may be getting a one sided view of the argument

Of course, but they still have every opportunity to defend themselves not only in the flag thread, but if they like with their own self moderated thread. That is the point of combining the two ideas.

Now one would have to wade through two threads which could both be biased. Accusations are delicate and one may have to go through all the bickering if they are to make an informed decision.

[TECSHARE]

I would like to suggest that flag creators create TWO threads, one which has open discussion upon which the flag is linked to, and another self moderated thread where the flag creator and the harmed parties build a log of nothing but factual information.

It's not a bad idea, but if the flag creator moderates the thread, there would be accusation of bias by the party the flag was created against. And those viewing the thread may be getting a one sided view of the argument

Of course, but they still have every opportunity to defend themselves not only in the flag thread, but if they like with their own self moderated thread. That is the point of combining the two ideas.

Now one would have to wade through two threads which could both be biased. Accusations are delicate and one may have to go through all the bickering if they are to make an informed decision.

Accusations of bias doesn't matter. Everyone has a bias. Expecting them not to is not realistic. People are going to complain no matter what. The point is to have an additional source not buried in the back and forth. Additionally nothing is stopping the accused from also using this format. The point is to make all the information easier for 3rd parties to access and review. It is far too easy for the accused to use a brute force strategy of shit posting so much people give up on trying to find the facts and make an uninformed decision one way or the other. After all people reviewing these flags are generally providing a service to the forum, we should make that process as painless as possible.

[Theb]

I like the idea especially if it involves transparency. So basically what you want is that aside from the reference link given in the flag by the scam accuser you also want the accused/accuser to have an option to link in a self moderated thread for the discussion the said flag? I really like the main point of the suggestion but I think the main flaw here is that the thread being a self-moderated one being handled by either the accused and the accuser, in my opinion neither one of them nor the ones who have already supported and opposed the flag should be handling the self-moderated thread. It's either another member or any of the mods create the self-moderated thread or not make the thread self-moderated at all to remove any kind of abuse once the second thread is linked to the flag. If the admin can create a way to automatically create another thread for logs and discussions once the flag is created then this would be of great convenience for both of the parties.

[TECSHARE]

I like the idea especially if it involves transparency. So basically what you want is that aside from the reference link given in the flag by the scam accuser you also want the accused/accuser to have an option to link in a self moderated thread for the discussion the said flag? I really like the main point of the suggestion but I think the main flaw here is that the thread being a self-moderated one being handled by either the accused and the accuser, in my opinion neither one of them nor the ones who have already supported and opposed the flag should be handling the self-moderated thread. It's either another member or any of the mods create the self-moderated thread or not make the thread self-moderated at all to remove any kind of abuse once the second thread is linked to the flag. If the admin can create a way to automatically create another thread for logs and discussions once the flag is created then this would be of great convenience for both of the parties.

Why shouldn't they be handling the self moderated threads? Who better to manage them than the directly interested parties? Free uncensored discussion can still take place in the primary thread. IMO having a supposedly disinterested 3rd party controlling the discussion can be just as bad if not worse. Additionally who wants to dedicate that much time to something that doesn't directly interest them? What even motivates them to do a thorough job? The overflowing gratitude of the community? LOL. It would be a time intensive and thankless job. There is no reason to be so obsessed over bias, just expect it, account for it, and make your own decisions, because it is never going away.

[JaredKaragen]

have a section for these specific threads to reside.   Make that section unable to self-moderate.  Problem solved, and an elegant solution altogether.   Use this thread for "reference" link; and have it contain all partaining data in that thread in the special section.

[TECSHARE]

have a section for these specific threads to reside.   Make that section unable to self-moderate.  Problem solved, and an elegant solution altogether.   Use this thread for "reference" link; and have it contain all partaining data in that thread in the special section.

I agree with the dedicated flag section, but the rest appears like you didn't even read the thread.

[DaveF]

How about 3 threads.

1) Flag creator moderated
2) Accused moderated
3) Both unmoderated

But here is the catch they are all in a separate part of the forum that can only be reached by clicking on links in the flag.
You can't just wander into it, you have to click to it from the flag. The links and threads for all 4 would be created when the flag is made. The creator of the flag can moderate 1 thread the accused can moderate the other the other. BUT before anyone could post in the unmoderated one the creator / accused must post 1st.

I'm tired and about to go to bed, but it does seem logical to me at the moment.
It would keep everything neat and in one section that you would probably have a reason to go to instead of just wandering over to and posting.

-Dave