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Author Topic: Fiat currencies  (Read 1731 times)
deisik
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January 19, 2020, 09:19:11 AM
 #141

What currency is possible to replace the dollar?

Learning from the mistakes of the fiat system and with the aim of justice and human rights of all humans, we must start using real money that is universal (money that has intrinsic value based on gold or silver precious metals)

Properly managed fiat money beats hard money any day of the week

When you speak of the mistakes of the fiat system, you actually refer not to the faults and drawbacks of this system itself but rather to its misuse and abuse, and overall mismanagement by governments. Fiat is like a very powerful medication. If you know how to use it and, more importantly, when to use it and in what amounts, it can actually cure the disease. But if you don't, it can do more damage than good

The use of a currency that has intrinsic value has many advantages including the system of gold and silver money will result in freedom of gold, import, and exchange export it. Means it also means the fixed exchange rate interstate money. Central banks and the government, it is impossible to expand the circulation of paper money, every currency announced in the world so that it is always limited to certain standards in the form of gold and silver and in the end every country will maintain his gold and silver wealth

The problem is, at certain points central banks and the government need to expand the supply of money (monetary base), and at other points to contract it. That, technically speaking, makes the hard currencies useless (in fact, even detrimental down to outright destructive), while fiat does that in a pretty self-regulated way via credit money (so called endogenous money)

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January 19, 2020, 12:12:34 PM
 #142

I think we just cannot find out how famous and how strongest the currency is just by it's value , it also depends on how it can be put into practical use all around the world , we cannot just weigh them in like this , I don't think they will die , I don't think they ever will become less important or dominant.
I personally think the Fiat system is an amazing thing but  interference of it with the governmental corrupt plans makes it amazingly full of loopholes .
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January 19, 2020, 04:13:27 PM
 #143

I think we just cannot find out how famous and how strongest the currency is just by it's value , it also depends on how it can be put into practical use all around the world , we cannot just weigh them in like this , I don't think they will die , I don't think they ever will become less important or dominant.
I personally think the Fiat system is an amazing thing but  interference of it with the governmental corrupt plans makes it amazingly full of loopholes .
You really don't depend it on how popular or strong it is, it was a decision of world's developed countries that dollar becomes a global currency and they also depend it on the countries economy and even though euro priced at a higher value still dollar is stronger so i think fiat will be still around in the future because it is like the representation of each country, fiat and crypto may join in the future to create much more better currency system.



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January 19, 2020, 04:47:07 PM
 #144

Even though the euro's value is higher, in terms of dominance it can not beat the dollar. After the Second World War, the United States is a nation with almost three-quarters of the world's gold reserves. No other nation will compete with the gold reserves of America. That's why the dollar became the dominant currency and the world's exchange rate benchmark. The dollar will remain the dominant currency as long as the American state remains strong in politics and economy.

Indeed when it comes to alternatives for securing assets, USD will be chosen as an alternative besides the Gold, this is because people believe that the country is strong whether in politics or the economy. If you can see in a country where an economic crisis happened people will convert their cash into foreign currency such as USD or other currencies such as Euro, Dollar Singapore, etc, in order to escape from the collapse.
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January 20, 2020, 06:00:20 AM
 #145

When you speak of the mistakes of the fiat system, you actually refer not to the faults and drawbacks of this system itself but rather to its misuse and abuse, and overall mismanagement by governments. Fiat is like a very powerful medication. If you know how to use it and, more importantly, when to use it and in what amounts, it can actually cure the disease. But if you don't, it can do more damage than good

There are some fiat money printing procedures that are made by the government, based on global banking system regulations, and fiat money can be used as a medium of exchange because of the value of the trust contained therein due to the legality of the money as a medium of exchange on the market. Based on the issuance procedure, the value of this fiat money lies in the "trust value" as a medium of exchange because it is legalized by the government. Fiat money depends on the market. Thus, the nominal value of money also depends on markets where the value of trust is determined based on the results of trade rates between countries. Thus, indirectly, the value of money is far different from the currencies of gold and silver. If gold and silver currencies are determined based on "guaranteed assets", then fiat currencies are determined based on exchange rates on international markets. So fiat money only stores extrinsic value.

Unlike the extrinsic money, gold, and silver if the exchange rate is lost, then it is still tangible material value. The value of this material can still be exchanged because it can be used for other needs, such as converted into jewelry, and so forth. While fiat money because the value of the material there is nothing left is only the exchange rate, when there is a decrease in the "value of money trust". then the prices of goods will increase because "trust value" of the money taken. If someone borrows 100 USD, basically he does not borrow money but instead borrows the exchange rate.

What is wrong in the fiat money system is that banks and interest create credit creation by banks, for banks, money is capital, and capital invested has risks, for that risk, there must be returns in return. And the interest on loans and loans is a return for the Bank. It must be understood that granting loans and credit is one of printing money without physical form. The bank will continue to owe money to it because in this way the creation of money will continue to occur. By lending money, the bank is not reducing but increasing its wealth. Though everything recorded by the bank as money is fictitious. The value of money multiplies from its intrinsic value because the central bank operates a fractional banking system, which requires that only a portion of the money in the deposit remain in the value, others can be lent. This means, that money carries out its functions many times and that is why the money supply is greater than the physical quantity of money.

If the customers take the money at the same time (rush) there is a bank collapse (collapse). The reason is because the money is not in accordance with what has been recorded by the bank.

Should third party funds or community deposits in current accounts, savings and deposits do not constitute debt for the bank; however, it functions as a deposit and in the form of investment funds. Investment funds are fully channeled for investment with other bank customers, thereby suppressing the creation of money through credit, because the funds are deposited, and banks cannot use them, so they are only stored in the reserve as a whole, thus creating what is called 100% reserve banking.


Quote
The problem is, at certain points central banks and the government need to expand the supply of money (monetary base), and at other points to contract it. That, technically speaking, makes the hard currencies useless (in fact, even detrimental down to outright destructive), while fiat does that in a pretty self-regulated way via credit money (so called endogenous money)


Gold is an asset with high liquidity so there will be no word useless in its use.

Money Demand is the amount of money demanded by the public for three motives, namely the purpose of the transaction, the purpose of guarding and the purpose of speculation. Endogenous money means that the money supply is not something given, but it can be said that there are other variables that also influence the money supply so that it cannot be fully controlled by the central bank authority.

The concept of endogenous money also exists in the system of gold and silver coins only the concept is different from endogenous money in the fiat money system.

Endogenous money in gold and silver money can simply be interpreted that the existence of money is essentially a representation of the volume of transactions that exist in the real sector. So that the higher the capacity and volume of the real sector increases, the demand for money will increase. So the concept of money, money is primarily a medium of exchange or a means, not as a commodity. Gold and silver are used as a standard for value for money and are used for market transactions. In this case, money is created as an intermediary to provide value for commodity prices, or goods and services. The demand for money increases, if the capacity and volume of the real sector increases. The use of gold and silver money avoids the growth of money in circulation that exceeds the value of the production of goods and services, or the growth of the real sector. Inflation occurs if the money supply is greater than what is needed for transactions in the real sector.

In conventional economics, endogenous money (money multiplier) is the creation of money through banking mechanisms. The money supply is endogenous due to a process called deposit multiplier, in which the role of interbank in creating loans into deposits and creating deposits into reserves. In this case, the bank's role is quite large in how much it regulates the supply of credit and deposits, then the supply of credit money can be endogenously determined by the bank in achieving its interests. In principle, the bank is a profit-oriented business entity by trying to avoid various obstacles and take taking advantage of existing opportunities, often using new financial instruments to utilize funds in their reserves. Through its fractional reserve banking, endogenous money is then allocated to create growth. In fact, conventional endogenous money does not allocate resources efficiently, but pushes asset prices up, and makes the world continue to have increasing debt, so that the total amount of internal and external exceeds the amount of money available (fictitious)

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January 20, 2020, 10:49:03 AM
 #146

Quote
The problem is, at certain points central banks and the government need to expand the supply of money (monetary base), and at other points to contract it. That, technically speaking, makes the hard currencies useless (in fact, even detrimental down to outright destructive), while fiat does that in a pretty self-regulated way via credit money (so called endogenous money)


Gold is an asset with high liquidity so there will be no word useless in its use

What do you mean by liquidity here?

If gold has become money (your point exactly), you can't sell it for money since it is the money. You can only buy with it, and I'm not sure at all it will be the best money out there to buy things with. But since we assume that there is no other money out there, and cannot be, we will have to deal with all the negative consequences of gold as money (as in real life gold will quickly wreak chaos on the whole economy)

Just one simple example. Since there is only so much gold and you can't print more of it, it will necessarily appreciate when the economy expands. That basically means that people who are doing nothing but have some gold will get richer at the expense of those who actually produce this new wealth. That would arguably be the worst form of communism ever possible. Are you okay with that?

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January 20, 2020, 11:57:11 AM
 #147

This relates to a long history, in which the US has been a superpower for a long time, so international transactions are based on the US. And the USD currency is a transaction payment tool for international. I think the EURO difference is in the control of the economic area. So that the Euro remains below the USD even though it has a higher value.
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January 20, 2020, 01:59:03 PM
 #148


I personally think the Fiat system is an amazing thing but  interference of it with the governmental corrupt plans makes it amazingly full of loopholes .

That is why Bitcoin is created, a decentralized currency that is not controlled and regulated by an organizational body. It is also the main point why there are many people who have been using Bitcoin in their financiak transactions online.

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January 20, 2020, 03:10:36 PM
 #149

This relates to a long history, in which the US has been a superpower for a long time, so international transactions are based on the US. And the USD currency is a transaction payment tool for international. I think the EURO difference is in the control of the economic area. So that the Euro remains below the USD even though it has a higher value.

We all know in terms of fiat currency one of the best coin that conquer the whole market is the usd and the euro but sometimes many people say the best is the usd but we cannot tell that easily because those coins are both profitable. Also today one of the basis on the market price is the usd there are a lot of exchange getting depends on the market value of usd. Even the price of the euro too is profitable still they are focusing on their economic market not to the other currency.

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January 20, 2020, 03:13:28 PM
 #150

Yes, dollar is still the strongest currency when we consider the fiat currencies. In general though, Fiat currencies are indeed getting weaker and weaker with banks rushing to lower interest value, making fiat currencies value itself depreciate. You can find more information about that here: https://bitcoinerx.com/finance/fiat-money-not-worth-anything-anymore-admits-banking-giant-ceo/. (found this link in CryptoBrys' post)

Now as to your main question why USD is dominant, it is because US is behind it. It is because its economy can back the currency of USD, making it the strongest currency out of all. You can find more information why it is strong here:https://www.thebalance.com/world-currency-3305931

As for why euro is valued higher, it is very simple. Supply and demand. Euros have a much lower supply across the globe when compared to USD which has a larger amount of Volume because it stimulates the economic growth with it.

The article you shared sums up why USD is strongest
Quote
Despite trillions of dollars in foreign debt and continuous large deficit spending, the United States still holds global trust and confidence of its ability to pay its obligations. For this reason, the U.S. dollar remains the strongest world currency. It may continue to be the top global currency in the years to come.
Source

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January 20, 2020, 09:54:57 PM
 #151

Why price currencies are weakening. We already know that. Because the solution for printing money in every economic problem is considered. Printing too much money reduces the value of paper money. What is the reason for the increase in the price of Bitcoin? The fact that its supply is constrained makes bitcoin valuable.
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January 20, 2020, 10:52:37 PM
 #152

Paper currencies began to weaken long ago. Credit cards are a sign of the end of the paper money system. A new order is constantly being established. A new economic model is emerging. Bitcoin also fired a new flare.
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January 21, 2020, 03:10:36 PM
 #153

For decades USD is strongest followed by EURO. In 70s US government announced that USD is no more pegged by gold and they can print as many currency notes as they want. I thought Chinese yaun is the one who can take over USD in near future but it’s still no way near USD. Why USD is strongest is the fact that its backed by mighty US economy.

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January 21, 2020, 03:20:45 PM
 #154

For decades USD is strongest followed by EURO. In 70s US government announced that USD is no more pegged by gold and they can print as many currency notes as they want. I thought Chinese yaun is the one who can take over USD in near future but it’s still no way near USD. Why USD is strongest is the fact that its backed by mighty US economy.
Yes that is right. We all know that the US is one of the most powerful and also richest country all over the world thats why USD is still the best of fiats snd nothing can take over the USD. USD is the counter part of bitcoin here in the virtual world because a lot of people tried to beat bitcoin by creating their own cryptocurrency but nobody succeed on their plan to beat bitcoin.
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January 21, 2020, 07:41:51 PM
 #155

What do you mean by liquidity here?

"Gold is an asset with high liquidity" is to explain the position of gold in our current monetary system and this answers your previous argument that sometimes the government conducts open market operations by buying currencies for domestic currency stability.


Quote
If gold has become money (your point exactly), you can't sell it for money since it is the money. You can only buy with it, and I'm not sure at all it will be the best money out there to buy things with.


Gold Money has two constituent elements, namely; The value of material consisting of precious metal in the form of gold and the printed value consisting of numbers or units written on it. Those who have permission to print gold coins are certain institutions, so gold is different from gold currencies.

The basic reason for stability is the most important element of currency because it can protect the value of assets from speculation and loss of value of liquidity due to exchange rate volatility. The use of gold meets the above basis, After the failure of the barter system, the gold is used as a medium of exchange to avoid damaging transactions.

Without the basic value of an item, it will be difficult to determine the value of an item. For example, someone who wants to buy bread with shoes needs something to know the size of bread from the value of the shoe. Buying and selling occurs in different types of goods, so a fair measurement is required as an intermediary between the two people who want to transact and do justice to one another. Justice is demanded from the type of property. Then needed types of assets that last a long time because of ongoing needs. The oldest type of property is mining. Then make money from gold.

Changes in the basic functions of money that cause problems, the function of money is as a tool to launch an exchange and establish the fair value of the exchange. The function of money increases when paper money is used as a representation of a gold reserve asset, which turns out to lead to problems. Since the formation of the banking unit as a place to store money, with an interest rate ratio set for a number of deposits (savings), apparently left no small problem.


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But since we assume that there is no other money out there, and cannot be, we will have to deal with all the negative consequences of gold as money (as in real life gold will quickly wreak chaos on the whole economy)

Your fear is unreasonable about a single currency. You also did not explain what the negative consequences of gold coins and you did not explain real examples of "as in real life gold will quickly wreak chaos on the whole economy".

You make a prediction of the future as a justification for ignoring and refuting the fact that is happening now, that the fiat system, banks, and interest is a trio of trouble makers in the world economy. Even though gold has proven its existence and value.


Quote
Just one simple example. Since there is only so much gold and you can't print more of it, it will necessarily appreciate when the economy expands. That basically means that people who are doing nothing but have some gold will get richer at the expense of those who actually produce this new wealth. That would arguably be the worst form of communism ever possible. Are you okay with that?


The easy answer is, a rich person needs to consume clothing, food, shelter, entertainment, recreation, transportation, so he will exchange his gold into gold currency and spend it.

Make money as real money, don't put money as capital. Money is public property. So everyone has the right to have money in force in a country. While capital is a personal item. Money is something that flows and must flow. If Money flow for production can lead to prosperity and the economic wealth of the community. Money must continue to be rotated so that it can bring greater benefits to the whole community. For this reason, money needs to be used for investment in the real sector, not hoarded or monopolized, which in the end if money is detained, it will cause a stagnation in the economy.

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EdvinZ
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January 22, 2020, 07:58:34 AM
 #156

The US dollar is the most common reserve currency in the world. Historically, people believe more in the dollar. And although the economy of China is almost as strong as the US economy, people are not in a hurry to change US dollars to yuan out of habit. The collapse of the dollar is highly unlikely, because many other economies in the world depend on it. If we hypothetically assume that there will be a collapse of Fiat currencies, the dollar will depreciate in the last place. But this is a utopian scenario.

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January 22, 2020, 09:40:10 AM
Last edit: January 22, 2020, 11:59:04 AM by deisik
 #157

What do you mean by liquidity here?

"Gold is an asset with high liquidity" is to explain the position of gold in our current monetary system and this answers your previous argument that sometimes the government conducts open market operations by buying currencies for domestic currency stability

Honestly, this is not what I would consider a thorough explanation

Besides, I don't think that gold has any important place in our fiat-based monetary systems specifically because these systems exclude gold. It has even got into the IMF rules, I mean that provision according to which no fiat currency of the member states can be based on gold. Put differently, if gold disappears completely today, nothing in particular is going to change in monetary matters. Things will go on as usual, and probably even better. So what do you mean by "high liquidity" here?

Quote
If gold has become money (your point exactly), you can't sell it for money since it is the money. You can only buy with it, and I'm not sure at all it will be the best money out there to buy things with.


Gold Money has two constituent elements, namely; The value of material consisting of precious metal in the form of gold and the printed value consisting of numbers or units written on it. Those who have permission to print gold coins are certain institutions, so gold is different from gold currencies.

The basic reason for stability is the most important element of currency because it can protect the value of assets from speculation and loss of value of liquidity due to exchange rate volatility. The use of gold meets the above basis, After the failure of the barter system, the gold is used as a medium of exchange to avoid damaging transactions

And how is gold supposed to provide that stability?

Its intrinsic value will be constantly changing due to economic conditions changing all the time, and specifically because it has that value in the first place. We no longer live in the 12th century where things were the same 100 years before and would be the same 100 years later. The irony is that it is fiat which doesn't have any intrinsic value on its own (apart from transactional utility) which allows to remove the innate instability in the value of a hard currency itself from the equation (provided it is managed properly, of course). In a properly managed fiat system, there is always enough money in the economy thanks to built-in feedback loops which automatically adjust the supply of money to a changing economic environment

You make a prediction of the future as a justification for ignoring and refuting the fact that is happening now, that the fiat system, banks, and interest is a trio of trouble makers in the world economy. Even though gold has proven its existence and value

This is not so much a prediction as it is a description of events that have already transpired

Gold, or rather gold standard in general, was the cause of a continuous streak of economic crises that plagued the economies throughout the world in the second half of the 19th century and the first quarter of the 20th. In this manner, it doesn't take a lot of brain power to say that essentially the same is going to happen again if gold is to become the next money. But this time the consequences will probably be more drastic, even dramatic, up to a point of being irreversible. That's the reason why we will never get back to the gold standard unless there's something that throws us back into the dark ages (like an all-out nuclear war or whatever)

The easy answer is, a rich person needs to consume clothing, food, shelter, entertainment, recreation, transportation, so he will exchange his gold into gold currency and spend it

It already failed in the past, and it will doubtless fail in the future

Quote
But since we assume that there is no other money out there, and cannot be, we will have to deal with all the negative consequences of gold as money (as in real life gold will quickly wreak chaos on the whole economy)

Your fear is unreasonable about a single currency. You also did not explain what the negative consequences of gold coins and you did not explain real examples of "as in real life gold will quickly wreak chaos on the whole economy"

You will get a most insidious type of communism working on an entirely new level, i.e. economic level, with people getting the slice of the pie for essentially doing nothing. And I wrote about that in my reply

Empty talks aside, how are you going to create new money with gold when the economy needs it?

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January 22, 2020, 04:25:52 PM
 #158

Even though the euro's value is higher, in terms of dominance it can not beat the dollar. After the Second World War, the United States is a nation with almost three-quarters of the world's gold reserves. No other nation will compete with the gold reserves of America. That's why the dollar became the dominant currency and the world's exchange rate benchmark. The dollar will remain the dominant currency as long as the American state remains strong in politics and economy.

Indeed when it comes to alternatives for securing assets, USD will be chosen as an alternative besides the Gold, this is because people believe that the country is strong whether in politics or the economy. If you can see in a country where an economic crisis happened people will convert their cash into foreign currency such as USD or other currencies such as Euro, Dollar Singapore, etc, in order to escape from the collapse.
And they are also expanding their horizons by mining oil and other natural resources, they went brezerk with these resources to gain the upper-hand in the end. But it's still evident that as technology progresses, people would need more than what they could provide, that's the reason the dollar is slowly dying. It's what most cryptocurrencies depend on but if the dollar is to die, it could still go on.

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January 23, 2020, 07:26:25 AM
 #159

I think the people you are talking about are referring to fiat in general and not just dollar. If all currencies are getting weak at the same time one of them is still going to be the strongest and Dollar remains the strongest currency there is. And having a higher value doesn’t mean that a currency should be the strongest, if that’s the case then I don’t think that even the Euro stands a chance in being among the first three because there are other currencies with more value than the Euro and USD respectively.

The first currency with a higher value is the Kuwait Dinar, but it hardly comes to the mind and most people don’t even know about it, the only thing they know is the USD.

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January 23, 2020, 10:33:27 AM
 #160

I think the people you are talking about are referring to fiat in general and not just dollar. If all currencies are getting weak at the same time one of them is still going to be the strongest and Dollar remains the strongest currency there is. And having a higher value doesn’t mean that a currency should be the strongest, if that’s the case then I don’t think that even the Euro stands a chance in being among the first three because there are other currencies with more value than the Euro and USD respectively

That ultimately depends on the total supply of money and the size of the economy

As you say, a higher exchange rate doesn't necessarily mean that a currency is stronger. It just means there are fewer currency units in circulation given more or less the same size of the economies compared. To gauge the strength of a currency we should look at its dynamics, i.e. how its exchange value changes over time. So if a currency with a higher rate loses its value (depreciates stronger and faster than other currencies), this rate should go down too even if technically it may still stay above the parity

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