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Author Topic: Actual Pool Fees  (Read 259 times)
AlecMe
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October 18, 2019, 02:59:26 PM
Last edit: October 19, 2019, 04:18:57 AM by frodocooper
Merited by frodocooper (7), Steamtyme (1)
 #1

I am interested in the actual fee paid (or lost opportunity even) for pools.

BTC.com, available here https://pool.btc.com charges 4.06% for each TH/hour averaged by the pool, so not what the Asic is showing you), or, as seen explained below how I got to this number, ₿0.00000003/TH/Hour.

I have been now mining at BTC.com (not the best as I have heard) and always feel I am somehow losing out due to not having an accurate fee displayed. For a pool, it is easy to hide behind anything like 'you pay more for the service', or 'you pay this, but we give you X or Y as benefit'.

After a year now with this pool, I have ended up with a possible way to calculate the exact fee that one pays on his pool based on the average 24h TH, daily payout (or earnings that remain in the pool until the threshold is met), and Whattomine Asic https://whattomine.com/asic.

For WhatToMine I usually select only the algorithm I need and input the daily average from the pool in the Gh/s box and put 0 in the Watts box to calculate the daily outcome - which is the Rev. BTC in the table used by myself forward.

These are the numbers used:
24h TH/s average: 58.65TH/s
The payout from BTC for the average: ₿0.00110332
The payout according to Whattomine for the same average: ₿0.00115000

Furthermore, I did the 1TH/s payout as ₿0.00110332(or daily outcome)/24 for both BTC pool and Whattomine and then divided the result by 24 to get an hourly pay per TH.

This got me to:
BTC pool pays ₿0.00000078 / TH / Hour (*at current difficulty)
while Whattomine approximates this as ₿0.00000082 / TH / Hour

The difference of 3 Satoshi (or ₿0.00000003)

With this difference is did the following to get the exact fee being charged 100%*0.00000003/0.00000082 resulting in 4.06% fee.

I am curious what other pools EXACT fee is, not what it is advertised, but what is paid out as this would allow all of us (not only me) to maximise on our hourly rate (and overall profit).

*If my math is flawed, please let me know, and I will adjust it.
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PassThePopcorn
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October 18, 2019, 03:51:19 PM
Last edit: October 19, 2019, 04:19:37 AM by frodocooper
Merited by Steamtyme (1)
 #2

The difference could be accounted for due to your averaging. whattomine uses the estimated value of what a consisted x th/s can make in a period of time. However a miner isn't exact, the pool will only pay for submitted shares, can you also see your rejected shares (these are the shares the pool will not pay you for). Was the value "payout from BTC" how much you received to your wallet? Some pools still charge a transaction fee for withdrawals.
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October 19, 2019, 12:27:54 AM
Merited by Steamtyme (1)
 #3

Of the 2 most common payouts ...

PPS/PPS+/FPPS or other random PPS reward systems:
your fee is not based on what the pool earns from your mining, it's based on the hash rate of your miner.
So while you can decide that you should get some number and they are reducing that number by some %, what the pool earns is indirectly related to that number.

The PPS pool is expected to get, on average, 100%PPS + all the transaction fees in the blocks that are found by the miners.
This means that what the pool actually earns is based on the luck of block finding + transaction fees.

Also, of course, any PPS pool that is not keeping all the transactions fees, but claims to be giving some to the miners, their payout to you MUST be different every day that they pay you when they find blocks, since the transactions fees are different in every block found.

Of course, if the PPS pool is not actually charging a reasonably high fee or does not have a large amount of BTC held to cover expected down turns in luck, then they have a high chance of going broke and not being able to pay the miners.
See here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=104664.msg48795003#msg48795003

PPLNS
on the other hand, PPLNS pools (except for AntPoo that keeps all the transactions fees - millions of dollars a month)
the fee charged is based on what the pool earns from your mining.

Since you get rewarded each time the pool finds a block, your reward is based on the amount of BTC in that block, which includes the transaction fees gained in that block.

So e.g. at my pool where I charge a 0.9% fee, all the total reward from the block, 12.5BTC + transactions fees, is used in the calculation to determine your reward (again in my case I keep 0.9% of the total as it explains on the Help->Payouts page on the web site)
So the fees are explicitly clear, based on what the pool makes from your mining.

Pool: https://kano.is - lowest fee PPLNS 3 Days Here on Bitcointalk: Forum
Discord support invite at https://kano.is/ Majority developer of the ckpool code - k for kano
Help keep Bitcoin secure by mining on pools with full block verification on all blocks - and NO empty blocks!
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