Facebook Libra, Why Not Bitcoin/Bitpay? Or is it a problem with scaling? POLL.

[Searing]

On the whole Facebook Libra thing. Looks more than dead in the water to me. I still don't get why they simply did not

buy out BitPay and Facebook just does as it pleases with crypto transactions.

Is it:

1) Facebook prefers its own currency Libra for the power/control/data mining on personal info from users as a result of use?

2) Bitcoin can't scale enough for transactions maybe? Technical people help me here, please! Scaling up for that many users on Facebook using Bitcoin just not do'able?

3) The governments of the world would lose their frigging minds on such an effort, due to the decentralization and thus make Facebook's life hell? (Not really sure,

how that differs from today's hearings..but let's go with that anyway)

So, it seems to me, that Facebook could use Bitcoin using Bitpay like www.newegg.com and others without issue. Hell, even Opera is adding it to their Android Browser,

if I remember right.

So what am I missing here guys? Or am I just frigging clueless on the politics and big business on all this?

take the poll

later

Brad

[Searing]

Reserved

[Darker45]

There must be more than just a single reason for Facebook to have started this project. A combination of reasons, probably including some or all of what you have mentioned. It looks like Mark, persistent and aggressive as he is, wants to stay at the center of all the latest trends, and creates something new. And since it is Facebook, it has to be grand.

BitPay is just a gateway, not a cryptocurrency, so this is probably one of the reasons why it is not an option for his ambitious mind. Bitcoin is not his, so again, not an option. Most probably, he was thinking of something that could actually be used by millions and millions of people around the world. Scalability and volatility have been hampering Bitcoin's adoption. These might be the reasons why he chose to set up a stable coin.

[mk4]

How is BitPay going to help them get what they want? They want to create a sort of stablecoin currency, that they have control over to some extent, and that Facebook(the social media site) can take advantage of in some way in the future(as Zuckerberg explained on the recent press hearing). As for scaling, I have no idea as they really haven't given any information(as far as I know) on how Libra is going to work in the back-end. But with Calibra, I assume the txs will be off-chain for maximized user experience.

[hello_good_sir]

1) Facebook prefers its own currency Libra for the power/control/data mining on personal info from users as a result of use?

Obviously Facebook would like to use their own technology for people, and they are looking to build their own platform and ecosystem, of payment systems and social media networking. Possibly the 2 biggest things in the world right now, and we already know how nosey they are with the tech, and if you where to use Libra, they would have a lot of power.

2) Bitcoin can't scale enough for transactions maybe? Technical people help me here, please! Scaling up for that many users on Facebook using Bitcoin just not do'able?

I am not extremely knowledgeable about technology, but I think that they will be able to scale fine.

3) The governments of the world would lose their frigging minds on such an effort, due to the decentralization and thus make Facebook's life hell? (Not really sure

They would. They've been pressuring Libra and Facebook and their partners have dropped out due to several claims that the goverments have made towards them related to money laundering, etc.

[avikz]

The answer is legal status of bitcoin!

Facebook is a stock market listed company, while the legalities around bitcoin is pretty much confusing around the world. There are handful of countries like Japan and Germany which have legalized bitcoin. On the other hand, bitcoin has no legal status in majority of the countries! Facebook wouldn't invest billions in such situation because they are answerable to their share holders.

Simply put, Facebook is trying to introduce a centralized and fully legal cryptocurrency worldwide. With bitcoin, they will run into legal issues more often than they can think off! Hence Libra came into the picture which will be fully controlled by a central authority and complied with international as well as local laws. Scaling isn't an issue!

[pooya87]

of course it is about power! if they bought a payment processor (even if it were the biggest one) like Bitpay they would still be processing "bitcoin" transactions, a currency that they have absolute zero power/control in it. but if they create their own blockchain, they can have 100% control over the blockchain, transactions, funds, who sends what where!,... no to mention the millions of dollars potential profit that could be in it for them by simply creating their own centralized token!

[nasipadang]

Business and politics are things that are considered evil, bring benefits without seeing the deeds done. Seeing how Mark Zuckerberg is congressing, I think the launch of Libra is bringing huge problems to Facebook. if I know the situation like this I think more for your idea facebook can use bitcoin and use bitpay as gateway.

[Kakmakr]

Buying another company comes with a lot of headaches and Facebook wants to do everything in-house for security reasons and also to protect their reputation if the 3rd party service they use, have exploitable code.

They know what they have in the developers that are working for the company now and if they really wanted to outsource this technology, they will simply hire new Blockchain developers to come and work for the company to develop their own token. 

Facebook cannot risk millions of users financial data and their money on a outsourced third party service that might be exploitable. 

[xiboothrezi]

Why use those that cannot be fully controlled, while being able to make new coins that can be fully controlled? Moreover, Facebook is a large and popular social media, it is not difficult to build a market and achieve maximum market capacity. With a little innovation and tactics, for example for transactions and upgrading of social media related to using cryptocurrency, they will certainly be quite easy.

snip---

Facebook cannot risk millions of users financial data and their money on a outsourced third party service that might be exploitable. 

This is also an important point in the background of launching new coins under their control

[Searing]

How is BitPay going to help them get what they want? They want to create a sort of stablecoin currency, that they have control over to some extent, and that Facebook(the social media site) can take advantage of in some way in the future(as Zuckerberg explained on the recent press hearing). As for scaling, I have no idea as they really haven't given any information(as far as I know) on how Libra is going to work in the back-end. But with Calibra, I assume the txs will be off-chain for maximized user experience.

I agree they what they want and what they say are two different things. What they say is they want to be able to help 3rd world folk purchase stuff on a more even field via

Facebook's LIBRA coin in a regulated, by them and associates, Facebook controlled marketplace. They also want all that NICE data to re-sell from all those new Billions of folk

that would flock to Facebook for such. However, they could do MOST of that with Bitcoin and BitPay. Indeed, just BUY BitPay and use that from what I can see. It would be

chump change to Facebook. (1/2 Billion I heard tossed around). You'd also still have all that 'wonderful' data to boot. Also, regulators would have a damn hard time beating up

Facebook for using BitPay in a massive manner, with it's not in Facebook's control, also the decentralized Bitcoin usage. If www.newegg.com has done so with BitPay for years,

why not facebook. So maybe it is because Bitcoin could not 'scale' and BitPay could not keep up with such a mass of transactions, is part of this also, and made it easy

for Facebook to just go with LIBRA instead. I don't know. But, being a centralized coin (LIBRA) Facebook just painted a target on their back and most of yesterdays hearing

was not from what I can tell about LIBRA but Facebook being too big and having not enough control over false content, etc.

This likely is NOT gonna go away. Facebook needs this data. Perhaps they could simply integrate PayPal more into their site, but that is cumbersome and does not allow

a lot of 3rd world action which is what Facebook claims they want. Which brings up another topic, why the f*ck would PayPal partner with LIBRA and Facebook, but NOT

simply add a service like BitPay to the PayPal universe? That drives me nuts. Either action would benefit PayPal, IF, they think that LIBRA would, then it goes to show that

likely the same would be true of a BitPay type addition to their site. Anyway, as an aside, that confuses me no end.

Likely not getting their own LIBRA coin, Facebook will simply pass on all this and dump any crypto

on its site for years as a result of this. We will see I guess.

Brad

[mk4]

They would definitely be able to collect mass amounts of data through BitPay, but I think it's more because they want more control over the currency itself; hence creating a separate "cryptocurrency", Libra. And yes, creating Libra was definitely a huge risk for Facebook; to the point that banks may stop supporting them(I've read a recent article about this, though as far as I know it was just speculation so don't quote me on this). But if they manage to pull it off, boy it's going to be a huge for them. I'd probably see Facebook's stock skyrocket.

[Artemis3]

On the whole Facebook Libra thing. Looks more than dead in the water to me. I still don't get why they simply did not

buy out BitPay and Facebook just does as it pleases with crypto transactions.

They don't even need to buy Bitpay, they can use Btcpay and do the exact same thing themselves. But, as you correctly point, it is about power and data mining. This coin is too similar to State controlled fiat currency, including the promise of being stable, and the promise of being backed with an indeterminate amount of tokens, which in turn also promise to be stable, and also promise to be backed in a indeterminate amount of fiat, which is also under a promise of being stable, and sometimes also promise to be backed in metals or other coins.

Let me tell you something about these promises. The Venezuelan bolivar was "pegged" to the USD at around 1600 bolivars per USD, in 2004. It was also promised that this would put an end to inflation, and stricter control on the market would put an end to the evil (American) speculators, which are the root of all that is against socialism, sovereignty and whatnot. Typical socialist rhetoric, which doesn't believe in a free market, but a "controlled" one.

We are in 2019, that mindset remained, but here is the result: 1 USD is the equivalent to 2 000 000 000 000 of those bolivares (and counting).

I hope you guys can spot the meaning of "stable" coins, they are only stable as long as whoever "controls" them, keep their promise.

I'd rather have a fully free fluctuating coin, that we know have limited production and is destined to keep its value over time, as opposed to fiat currencies that are "promised" to lose value but "slowly", because, deflation is evil, and only debt moves the economy...

Backed on a promise, of a promise of a promise? I'd rather use something backed by code. That's the difference, don't trust Zuckerberg or anyone for that matter, not even Satoshi, just look at the code, see what it does and what is meant to do. This is what makes Bitcoin valuable, and Libra worthless.

[kryptqnick]

I think that Facebook is launching Libra because of the first option. Having your own token means staying in control and potentially getting more gain out of it (if your token/coin becomes popular). Moreover, Facebook supporting Bitcoin would be a certain move, a big thing for Bitcoin, a serious step in establishing its worldwide dominance. Maybe Facebook does not want to provide such help to any specific project. Perhaps people like Zuckerberg know Bitcoin mainly for its bad use cases, and they don't want to be associated with that. As for scalability, it seems to be a serious problem, that's true, but I don't think it's the kind of problem Libra will be able to solve (they can make the issue less significant, but they cannot make it go away, because it's a part of how blockchain as we know it works).

[Searing]

They would definitely be able to collect mass amounts of data through BitPay, but I think it's more because they want more control over the currency itself; hence creating a separate "cryptocurrency", Libra. And yes, creating Libra was definitely a huge risk for Facebook; to the point that banks may stop supporting them(I've read a recent article about this, though as far as I know it was just speculation so don't quote me on this). But if they manage to pull it off, boy it's going to be a huge for them. I'd probably see Facebook's stock skyrocket.

hmmm...being 'evil' Facebook and all...could it be they planned LIBRA coin to get 'all the Pie for themselves' and control/data/etc?

Thus the backup plan would be Bitcoin, let the regulators go after that decentralized coin, via BitPay or whatever...and still get most of the Pie (ie data/spending).

Sounds like an 'evil' plan to me!

(It is like the regulators never learned from the Super Villains in their youth from those Cartoons! I mean really, we are talking 'Evil Genius Plans to Take Over the World" basic self-help

basic instructional course here!)

Facebook, still has plenty of room to maneuver on this, using Bitcoin in point of fact, we will see...

Facebook: We know what you look at on Facebook you freak! Bend to our 'evil' will!  (tm Facebook)

Brad

[dothebeats]

Big entity wants more and more control, data and power over the people who use their platform/s. It's not a secret anymore that Facebook Inc. likes to snoop on everyone's asses and data every now and then (the Cambridge Analytica scandal is the finest example). It's quite ironic how Zuckerberg's remarks on privacy changed over the course of a few years, and it's just worth noting that Libra tends to be a centralized altcoin that will need your privacy before you can even use it, so that's something worth watching out.

[Twinkledoe]

Big entity wants more and more control, data and power over the people who use their platform/s. It's not a secret anymore that Facebook Inc. likes to snoop on everyone's asses and data every now and then (the Cambridge Analytica scandal is the finest example). It's quite ironic how Zuckerberg's remarks on privacy changed over the course of a few years, and it's just worth noting that Libra tends to be a centralized altcoin that will need your privacy before you can even use it, so that's something worth watching out.

Took the poll and not surprised that as of now the first item is the leading opinion of the users here. Though I am not totally against with Libra thing because it might drive crypto adoption to a large number of FB users, yet, we don't know how far Zuck will go beyond the privacy of those unknowingly individuals. They are gaining a lot of income from its users alone but of course they are not disclosing how they are getting that amount of money. They should at least share to its users. 

[TheGreatPython]

One of the reasons why I think Facebook want this project badly is actually to have more power over people so that government can actually fear them the more and I think this project is something that I equally call witch-hunting based on the experience they have had from the government as regard the issue of data privacy, if they create a coin that will make them have financial control of billions of people.

It would be hard for the government to really control the CEO, and I also think that Mark has a dream to own a Facebook nation, with this currency, Facebook will become very rich, and may be the richest man in the world which with that, he could control so many thing of the world because of that which I don’t see government giving him chance to do that.

[Mandoy]

In my opinion facebook wants to make more money and thats why they launch Libra. Imaging if they will use bitcoin, the transaction fees will not go to them. They created the stable coin libra so they have full control. There is no mining in Libra coin nor it has a transaction fees but facebook will have all the profit when they have the majority of the coins at their disposal. So at the end it will just end up in profit, but at the same time the merchants who hate volatility will really welcome their coin.

[CryptoBry]

Don't count Libra yet as it can have many secret moves under its long sleeves, just waiting for the right time to be unleashed so the entire world can be surprised and even shocked. With its almost limitless resources, Libra can have the luxury of time so it can actually wait when things are simmering down, and they can start the guerrilla kind of attack to persuade many governments for its approval.

I am answering the number 1 choice: For Facebook a question of control/power? I believe that this is one of the primal factors why Facebook or Mark Zuckerberg decided to make a splash in the world of cryptocurrency via Libra. Just riding on Bitcoin, they will not have the total control they envisioned with Libra and I think Mark really hates not on the driving seat. Just like what he is doing on Facebook, he must be on the pedestal overseeing and controlling everything on Libra. Sadly, he is having some big problems with many governments.

However, I am expecting that soon, at the right time, Libra is going to launch a subtle charm offensive maybe even away from the prying eyes of the media and people like you and me. mark is not going to allow to be the recipient of a big black eye courtesy of the Libra hullabaloo.