Best way to combat the cartels: Legalization of Drugs

[squatz1]

I think this is pretty simple for people to understand, but the former Mexican president has fully supported the legalization of drugs across Mexico. This is ahead of a vote from the Mexican senate on if weed should be legalized countrywide. One of the biggest arguments to legalize weed is that it will choke off the cartels of one of their most vital profit making drugs.

This makes complete sense in Mexico and in the US.

Think about it simply: If the US legalized weed, then instead of drug dealers selling it illegally and buying their weed from who knows where -- people are going to go to the dispensary which is properly (and regularly) regulated by the state. Not only are they regulated and ensure that the weed isn't mixed with anything (very rare, but still) their is also another stream of tax revenue for the government.

But this isn't going to happen on the federal level in the US mostly because of business and other interests from the people listed below:

Police Unions
Correctional Officer Unions
For Profit Prisons AND REGULAR PRISONS
Big Pharma
Defense Lawyers
and so on.

These groups love the supply of people going to jail for marijuana and other non violent drug related crimes. That's what we have to fix in this country. What do we all think?

Article referenced: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/22/vicente-fox-legalizing-drugs-is-the-way-to-combat-cartels.html

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[Rikafip]

It is a no brainer that government shouldn't meddle in  people's personal habits and choices, including drug use.

Since Nixon proclaimed  "war on drugs"  US spent god knows how many billions of dollars , and  by the looks of it, government is loosing that war so far. But as you mentioned, too many people are profiting from the  current situation so changes are slow, but they are coming.

One of my favorite stand-up comedians Bill Hicks explained it nicely.  

[BADecker]

Do you want government in your lives? Isn't the government the one who made drugs illegal so that the cartels would grow? The cartels are the fault of government.

Don't legalize drugs. Legalizing simply keeps government in the drug business. Get government out of our lives. Simply repeal all the laws that make drugs illegal. Then the cartels will dry up, because everybody can grow marijuana and peyote right in his own house if he wants. Nobody needs the cartels or government for this.

[clickerz]

Re: Best way to combat the cartels: Legalization of Drugs

Some may have points but I disagree on these. Legalization of Drugs  leads to proliferation of it to some extent and ruining more lives even those who are not user. Also it depends on what kind of drugs. I am in favor of medical marijuana but not on meth,cocaine and other abused substance. Making them legal and freely accessed by anyone,  does not solve the problem.

[BADecker]

Re: Best way to combat the cartels: Legalization of Drugs

Some may have points but I disagree on these. Legalization of Drugs  leads to proliferation of it to some extent and ruining more lives even those who are not user. Also it depends on what kind of drugs. I am in favor of medical marijuana but not on meth,cocaine and other abused substance. Making them legal and freely accessed by anyone,  does not solve the problem.

Government should advertise. Many of the schools and high schools have signs that say: "Drug-free Zone." This is government advertising. Let government advertise like this, big time. Let them tell all the people how bad drugs can be for anybody. But don't make laws.

Why no laws? Because drug laws don't control drugs. They control people. And when people are controlled, they are not free. Do you want government to control the hair comb in your pocket or purse? Do you want them to set up check-points so that they can check how many teeth you have on your comb, and fine you if you have more or less than the legal number?

Base all the legality on harm or damage; if a person harms you or damages your property, then you can have him punished. If he is so stupid that he abuses drugs after all the government warning, and harms you or anybody while under the influence, then throw his dirty butt in prison until he pays off the debt. But you be free from government jokers regulating your life.

[squatz1]

Re: Best way to combat the cartels: Legalization of Drugs

Some may have points but I disagree on these. Legalization of Drugs  leads to proliferation of it to some extent and ruining more lives even those who are not user. Also it depends on what kind of drugs. I am in favor of medical marijuana but not on meth,cocaine and other abused substance. Making them legal and freely accessed by anyone,  does not solve the problem.

Well yes, I don't think that people should be able to use hard drugs. I probably should've been more specific when I use the term drugs, as that leaves a lot of possibilities open.

When I'm talking about drugs I'm mostly referring to Marijuana.

But I also think that there should be locations for people to use hard drugs safely -- not giving out the drugs, but at least the needles and so on and so forth. To attempt to save them from overdosing or something along those lines. It's much cheaper to have a needle dispensary rather then sending the ambulance and things along those lines to attempt to save them from them using too much.

There's a lot we can do, but at the end of the day people profiting runs in the way.

[Juggy777]

I think this is pretty simple for people to understand, but the former Mexican president has fully supported the legalization of drugs across Mexico. This is ahead of a vote from the Mexican senate on if weed should be legalized countrywide. One of the biggest arguments to legalize weed is that it will choke off the cartels of one of their most vital profit making drugs.

This makes complete sense in Mexico and in the US.

Think about it simply: If the US legalized weed, then instead of drug dealers selling it illegally and buying their weed from who knows where -- people are going to go to the dispensary which is properly (and regularly) regulated by the state. Not only are they regulated and ensure that the weed isn't mixed with anything (very rare, but still) their is also another stream of tax revenue for the government.

But this isn't going to happen on the federal level in the US mostly because of business and other interests from the people listed below:

Police Unions
Correctional Officer Unions
For Profit Prisons AND REGULAR PRISONS
Big Pharma
Defense Lawyers
and so on.

These groups love the supply of people going to jail for marijuana and other non violent drug related crimes. That's what we have to fix in this country. What do we all think?

Article referenced: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/22/vicente-fox-legalizing-drugs-is-the-way-to-combat-cartels.html

@squatz1 I don’t think this is a wise idea because people will have easy access to drugs then, and could cause more damage under it’s regular influence. Even if the government were to have authorised distributors I yet feel people would misuse it, e.g. look at guns they’re freely available and see the damage they’re causing. In current scenarios people fear getting caught, and this fear will go away if it’s legalised hence I feel government should not legalise it.

[target]

A classic example of if you can't beat them, join them.

The Duterte administration seem to be winning in drug war, they should be doing it. Mexico had been fighting the war for more than decades, since the drug cartels are already killing anyone thats on their path. Why don't they just try to let them kill each other and let the good guys live if they wanna live.

[TECSHARE]

@squatz1 I don’t think this is a wise idea because people will have easy access to drugs then, and could cause more damage under it’s regular influence. Even if the government were to have authorised distributors I yet feel people would misuse it, e.g. look at guns they’re freely available and see the damage they’re causing. In current scenarios people fear getting caught, and this fear will go away if it’s legalised hence I feel government should not legalise it.

Are you of the opinion that people aren't misusing drugs now under the rule of prohibition? Remember what happened under alcohol prohibition? All it did was fund violent criminal cartels, and alcohol was still widely available with no quality control and no way to get restitution if product quality caused harm. You can wag your finger about guns too, but there are something like 300 million guns in the hands of US citizens. In reality the amount of gun crime we have is quite low and has been falling for some time in spite of media hype pushing gun control.

All drug prohibition does is fund criminal cartels and allow the police state to infringe upon the rights of citizens in the perpetual effort to enforce unconstitutional drug laws. If drug use is treated as a medical condition rather than a criminal issue, people can get medical help and not fear incarceration, and will be more likely to change their habits. Drugs are already widely available. Legalizing drugs is not going to cause the sky to fall, except for a few racketeers on both sides of the law.

[Rikafip]

If drug use is treated as a medical condition rather than a criminal issue, people can get medical help and not fear incarceration, and will be more likely to change their habits.

That is exactly what Portugal is doing after they decriminalized all drugs, including heroin (up to certain amount). They are actually trying to help the addicts through counseling, giving them clean needles etc instead just throwing them in jail, where they will have minimal chances of recovering and getting rid of addiction.
Maybe some of those things from Portugal could be applicable to the  United States as well, as this war on drugs is not really working.

[squatz1]

A classic example of if you can't beat them, join them.

The Duterte administration seem to be winning in drug war, they should be doing it. Mexico had been fighting the war for more than decades, since the drug cartels are already killing anyone thats on their path. Why don't they just try to let them kill each other and let the good guys live if they wanna live.

But that's not a long term plan, you cant just kill everyone in your path. All hes doing is imposing VERY VERY VERY harsh punishments for those that use/ sell drugs etc. But the thing with drugs is its an addition and it's something you can't just lose without proper treatment.

@squatz1 I don’t think this is a wise idea because people will have easy access to drugs then, and could cause more damage under it’s regular influence. Even if the government were to have authorised distributors I yet feel people would misuse it, e.g. look at guns they’re freely available and see the damage they’re causing. In current scenarios people fear getting caught, and this fear will go away if it’s legalised hence I feel government should not legalise it.

Are you of the opinion that people aren't misusing drugs now under the rule of prohibition? Remember what happened under alcohol prohibition? All it did was fund violent criminal cartels, and alcohol was still widely available with no quality control and no way to get restitution if product quality caused harm. You can wag your finger about guns too, but there are something like 300 million guns in the hands of US citizens. In reality the amount of gun crime we have is quite low and has been falling for some time in spite of media hype pushing gun control.

All drug prohibition does is fund criminal cartels and allow the police state to infringe upon the rights of citizens in the perpetual effort to enforce unconstitutional drug laws. If drug use is treated as a medical condition rather than a criminal issue, people can get medical help and not fear incarceration, and will be more likely to change their habits. Drugs are already widely available. Legalizing drugs is not going to cause the sky to fall, except for a few racketeers on both sides of the law.

People don't understand this, espically with Marijuana in the US. People are already using weed in the US and we know that, it's not something thats hidden. Though when people talk about legalization all we hear in the news is how all the children are going to start smoking, more car accidents, etc.

Peopel don't get it. These people are already smoking and they just want to do it without having to fear arrest and then prosecution.

[TECSHARE]

People don't understand this, espically with Marijuana in the US. People are already using weed in the US and we know that, it's not something thats hidden. Though when people talk about legalization all we hear in the news is how all the children are going to start smoking, more car accidents, etc.

Peopel don't get it. These people are already smoking and they just want to do it without having to fear arrest and then prosecution.

All these arguments against drug use are totally just as applicable to alcohol and tobacco among other things. The arguments against marijuana are just down right fraudulent in this context as it is far safer than either of those. Nanny state aside, drug prohibition is not constitutional. During alcohol prohibition they had to get a constitutional amendment to prohibit alcohol. Why? Because they government never had any authority to restrict it. The same goes for illicit drugs, but they just skipped the whole pesky constitution thing that time. The drug war itself has done far FAR more damage to the USA and the world than drug addiction EVER could have. You can go to the doctor and go get prescribed pharmaceutical grade meth, drink a 5th of vodka, and go shoot some guns, and no one would blink an eye. However if you have a condition that you use legal medical marijuana for, well then, they will kick in your door and take your firearms, because God knows those crazy potheads will kill themselves or others, even if it was weeks since they last consumed any THC.

The drug war is nothing more than a racket, and civil asset forfeiture is one of the primary motivators to keep drugs illegal. How else are police going to buy those shiny new Dodge Chargers with the sweet camo vinyl wraps if they don't get to rob anyone who carries cash and just label them a drug dealer? Also if the drug war ended, vast numbers of law enforcement from federal to local agencies would have to cut back staff because their main revenue sources are from drug interdiction, specifically marijuana. God forbid we don't have standing armies across the nation arbitrarily stripping people of their rights in the name of "the children".

[Spendulus]

People don't understand this, espically with Marijuana in the US. People are already using weed in the US and we know that, it's not something thats hidden. Though when people talk about legalization all we hear in the news is how all the children are going to start smoking, more car accidents, etc.

Peopel don't get it. These people are already smoking and they just want to do it without having to fear arrest and then prosecution.

All these arguments against drug use are totally just as applicable to alcohol and tobacco among other things. The arguments against marijuana are just down right fraudulent in this context as it is far safer than either of those. Nanny state aside, drug prohibition is not constitutional. During alcohol prohibition they had to get a constitutional amendment to prohibit alcohol. Why? Because they government never had any authority to restrict it. The same goes for illicit drugs, but they just skipped the whole pesky constitution thing that time. The drug war itself has done far FAR more damage to the USA and the world than drug addiction EVER could have. You can go to the doctor and go get prescribed pharmaceutical grade meth, drink a 5th of vodka, and go shoot some guns, and no one would blink an eye. However if you have a condition that you use legal medical marijuana for, well then, they will kick in your door and take your firearms, because God knows those crazy potheads will kill themselves or others, even if it was weeks since they last consumed any THC.

The drug war is nothing more than a racket, and civil asset forfeiture is one of the primary motivators to keep drugs illegal. How else are police going to buy those shiny new Dodge Chargers with the sweet camo vinyl wraps if they don't get to rob anyone who carries cash and just label them a drug dealer? Also if the drug war ended, vast numbers of law enforcement from federal to local agencies would have to cut back staff because their main revenue sources are from drug interdiction, specifically marijuana. God forbid we don't have standing armies across the nation arbitrarily stripping people of their rights in the name of "the children".

Assuming people listened to you and did what you request, do you have any idea how many people in the DEA would lose their jobs? Look, they've got families to support and bills to pay. They have house payments and car payments coming due, and a country club and golf membership. What about the kids they promised a trip to Europe? What about paying for college? What about their monthly bill for cable TV? The bill for the Internet, for crying out loud!!!

That's not even counting the huge cash into the local court systems from those deadbeat, no good stoners. The lawyers get a share, the court gets their part, the probation office gets their fair share, all from someone who was doing something they knew was wrong in the eyes of the law. These people all have a pretty good life. You'd take that away, and likely put lawyers and judges out on the street, panhandling for spare cash.

What in the world do you think police, judges and lawyers should be doing? Actually going after violent robbers, murderers, rapists and thieves?

[TECSHARE]

What in the world do you think police, judges and lawyers should be doing? Actually going after violent robbers, murderers, rapists and thieves?

Maybe if they passed a law that law enforcement could take all the assets of murderers and rapists this country would be the safest place on Earth. That is until they ran out of murderers and rapists and had to start brown bagging it. I should say I am not one of those types who thinks its cool and trendy to hate police just for being police, but I am also not a blind retard and I see they are operating within a bloodstained racket regardless if they know it or not on an individual level.

[darkangel11]

I think it's a good idea and it's not the first time it was brought up. We can see what making something illegal leads to on the example of the prohibition. People were always drinking just like they were always smoking something. Indians were taking drugs and their societies were not unproductive or full of addicts. This is a part of our culture but since it became illegal it gave birth to cartels just like prohibition made Al Capone. Making drugs legal would give money to the government, but it would also make some coppers unemployed and those coppers, their bosses, their friends and families will fight for the things to remain the way they are.

[ChiBitCTy]

I think it's a good idea and it's not the first time it was brought up. We can see what making something illegal leads to on the example of the prohibition. People were always drinking just like they were always smoking something. Indians were taking drugs and their societies were not unproductive or full of addicts. This is a part of our culture but since it became illegal it gave birth to cartels just like prohibition made Al Capone. Making drugs legal would give money to the government, but it would also make some coppers unemployed and those coppers, their bosses, their friends and families will fight for the things to remain the way they are.

I agree the war on drugs has failed miserably. Marijuana prohibition being the biggest joke of them all by miles. Hard drugs I’m open to debate on this. But I can tell you while working with law enforcement daily ..they are not concerned what so ever about drug prohibition. In fact the vast majority not only hate that marijuana is illegal, they want to help it prosper. My company holds the city’s retirement plan and I help them understand investing and planning for retirement. A sizable  % of law enforcement ask me what marijuana stock they should be buying and if their plans mutual funds have pot stock holdings. They aren’t concerned of losing their jobs and often admit they’ve got plenty of more important stuff they could easily be doing than making dope stops / arrests.

[COCKSMUGGLA69]

The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”

Making things illegal and selectively enforcing them is best way to exert control.
Same goes for "Dogs must be on leash" signs. They're never enforced in the park near my house until some undesirables have a small puppy running around.

Same goes for cockfighting. If you're white, you can invite police over and they gamble on the sparring with you. If you brown, you going to prison.

[bitcoin-shark]

in my opinion drugs, at least the light ones should be legal all over the world, should follow the Dutch system, everyone should be able to grow their own marijuana plants in the garden...

[squatz1]

I think it's a good idea and it's not the first time it was brought up. We can see what making something illegal leads to on the example of the prohibition. People were always drinking just like they were always smoking something. Indians were taking drugs and their societies were not unproductive or full of addicts. This is a part of our culture but since it became illegal it gave birth to cartels just like prohibition made Al Capone. Making drugs legal would give money to the government, but it would also make some coppers unemployed and those coppers, their bosses, their friends and families will fight for the things to remain the way they are.

I agree the war on drugs has failed miserably. Marijuana prohibition being the biggest joke of them all by miles. Hard drugs I’m open to debate on this. But I can tell you while working with law enforcement daily ..they are not concerned what so ever about drug prohibition. In fact the vast majority not only hate that marijuana is illegal, they want to help it prosper. My company holds the city’s retirement plan and I help them understand investing and planning for retirement. A sizable  % of law enforcement ask me what marijuana stock they should be buying and if their plans mutual funds have pot stock holdings. They aren’t concerned of losing their jobs and often admit they’ve got plenty of more important stuff they could easily be doing than making dope stops / arrests.

Eh. I don't think that people should be getting involved in investing in marijuana stocks. I think they've boomed a good amount and for no good reason. As there's no gurantee that the companies of today for Marijuana are going to be the companies of the future, and the indexes that are out now don't protect for that like something like a broad index -- like VTSAX from vanguard -- protected from.

I wouldn't be investing in the sectors companies. Unless you're getting involved on the macro scale.

[BADecker]

^^^ But consider. Mexico is going to legalize drugs. What will happen to the price of drugs in the USA then? Seriously.