Let this rise be a lesson - Bitcoin isn't strongly tied to anything

[stompix]

@everyone who says that Xi's statements pumped BTC

Guys, this is nuts, he didn't say anything about Bitcoin, he talked about "blockchain technology", which has absolutely no relation to Bitcoin, the Chinese government is not interested in adopting Bitcoin. This isn't the first time China or other big government talked about blockchain, and it never caused a pump like this - it's clear as a day that it was a coincidence. I see people already started making memes how Xi pumped BTC, but please, don't spread them, cause it's just blatant misinformation that creates false impressions. You will 100% lose your money if you try to base your trades on such irrelevant news.

Bro, give it up!!! You can't hold the fort!!! It was the Chinese!!
Do you honestly think you can talk sense in an army of zombies?

Let's see the effects, XI makes his speech on the 24th. On the 25th (Chinese time) the news is aired all over China.
But!!!
Nothing happens!
But at 3-4 PM European time, and at 1 AM in the morning (on a SATURDAY) in China, the pump happens!

It was of course because of the Chinese running at midnight to their ATMs (ops, they don't have that in China), .. well-doing something else, (since the banks are closed) and ...they bought bitcoin!!! The Chinese miracle!!!!

Of course, we have to figure out how the previous pump in June that took us from 7700 to 13 500 happened without China, but, I have the feeling it was also becuase of China.

[Epochjump]

Just an observation based on 30 + years of being a mortgage backed and Treasuries derivatives trader. Right now BTC is a very non liquid vehicle. It is traded by and followed by a lot of very inexperienced investors and speculators. OP is spot on, except left out the most important piece of his conclusion. The media and social media guppies are extremely gullible and easy to fool and manipulate. We as large institutional traders find so much easy money in  the manipulation of the crypto space namely BTC. The majority of people with money in these assets read, and listen to, and react to this utter "bullcrap" put out there in the media. Most of those stories are deliberate "plants". We call it "Astro Turfing". Large speculators create a very negative fundamental story at or near low points that causes people to sell their holdings and amateur speculators to place shorts in the protocol. All the while we are accumulating massive long positions. The exact opposite is done at the highs. Traders have been establishing short positions in BTC since $ 13,500 ish on down to $9,000.00. It is extremely difficult to buy these shorts back in such large volume let alone establish the opposite long position with the low liquidity. So...we create a narrative by planting stories and postings and Social Media entries etc etc. Then the ducks come quaking. So, we feed them. The same exercise is done in reverse for long positions. I am safe in sharing this here with all of you because truth is, no one will believe me. But, That's the beauty of it. This is done in all markets. It's just easiest in BTC right now. It's been going on in the stock market for decades. A much higher level game. Yesterday's price action was not only very predictable but "set up" as shorts covered their positions and switched to " net long" from $9,000 down to $7,400.00. You would all do well for the time being to buy weakness in the price of BTC. The process is still in play. Then when the "news" is extremely good and price is high, get out. You will be in good company.

[dothebeats]

It is actually tied to public opinion. Whenever people feel like it may fall and actually have bitcoins to sell they sell their bitcoins and price falls. Whenever they feel like it will go up and they have fiat they buy bitcoin and it goes up. Thats why its tied to public opinion. But, even that is not really mattering these days because even when most of the people think one thing whales could do another and price could change contrary to what people thinks.

Most people see this as "bitcoin moving against the public opinion" but that is not really true, whales are people too and it moves according to what they believe so its still considered "public opinion" just not what most of the public thinks but only a small portion of rich public thinks so its still true.

People's opinion regarding bitcoin somewhat represents the traders' sentiments when they trade, but not always. But the truth still stands: bitcoin isn't directly controlled by news, people, other investments/assets and whatever. It still remains as a free market not influenced by outside factors for most of the time. See China, Brexit and other geopolitical issues that have been affecting the traditional investments? It doesn't do damage to bitcoin and even if did, only a small part of it is, usually those people who are directly affected by such issues are moving/trading accordingly with those.

[hatshepsut93]

Do you honestly think you can talk sense in an army of zombies?

This makes me sad and worried about the Bitcoin market, how are we going to curb volatility if people believe in crap like that and refuse to listen to logical arguments? How can we protect decentralization if users are so easily manipulated by crypto news sites?

Bitcoin is 10 years old, yet it seems like almost no progress was made in terms of community maturity, people still fall for the most blatant FUD and FOMO.

[Quidat]

Do you honestly think you can talk sense in an army of zombies?

This makes me sad and worried about the Bitcoin market, how are we going to curb volatility if people believe in crap like that and refuse to listen to logical arguments? How can we protect decentralization if users are so easily manipulated by crypto news sites?

Bitcoin is 10 years old, yet it seems like almost no progress was made in terms of community maturity, people still fall for the most blatant FUD and FOMO.

It will continue as years goes by and i do see that this is just normal for a very volatile market.Come to think that even on traditional market
like forex and stocks do still have this kind of scenario when we do talk about Fuds and Fomo things.So crypto space isnt on the exclusion.
The thing here is that people should really be aware into these situations on what they would gonna do when it do happens.

[Theb]

Well, today Bitcoin went up by 14% ($1,000) without absolutely no reason - nothing important happened today that could have shaken the price so much. Let this be a lesson to people who look for patterns - Bitcoin is random and unpredictable in short terms, just accept it.

I know this is true and most of us traders here have seen the price movement before even the news comes up but the problem here is these crypto news sites are so perseverant on looking for some news tying it to Bitcoin's movement. These have been more relevant if it had shown its connection before the price movement but almost all the time it comes after the price movement which we cannot really use on our trades at all. It's all just noise at the end, a noise that we can't use.

[electronicash]

Do you honestly think you can talk sense in an army of zombies?

This makes me sad and worried about the Bitcoin market, how are we going to curb volatility if people believe in crap like that and refuse to listen to logical arguments? How can we protect decentralization if users are so easily manipulated by crypto news sites?

Bitcoin is 10 years old, yet it seems like almost no progress was made in terms of community maturity, people still fall for the most blatant FUD and FOMO.

what do you think is the reason why btc rise this time?

blockchain projects in china are increasing which some government departments are involve on these token projects. Xijinping couldn't be the reason for this rise but people i guess are seeing it a positive sign that the Chinese are buying BTC to buy the tokens they have in their country. but then of course we still can bring the price down as long as someone can figure by another negative news.

[Sahyadri]

As you know, every time there's a major price movements, the next day people, especially crypto journalists, start coming up with their own explanations why it happened - they try to tie it to some political or economical events in the world, statements by important individuals or organizations, correlation with some other markets, something related to mining and so on and so on.

Well, today Bitcoin went up by 14% ($1,000) without absolutely no reason - nothing important happened today that could have shaken the price so much. Let this be a lesson to people who look for patterns - Bitcoin is random and unpredictable in short terms, just accept it.

That isn't really healthy a situation.
Such a major price jump that too without any trigger shows how this crypto space is largely manipulated. Few bulk hodlers play with the market in whatever way they want. I don't have any problem with the jump of a few hundreds. But $3k jump in 24 hrs that too with no fundamental reason doesn't make much sense. Then there are news which states that even the volume was fake. How you gonna bring traditional investors towards crypto trading in such a scenario. Fundamentals are really important.

[rdluffy]

TOTALLY AGREE

I said in another thread how people always have to tie a fact to any price change of BTC
Analists always trying to predict the new trend, the price etc, but it makes no sense, we can follow some parameters to help us maximize our prediction, but it's only "predictions", and BTC have different pattern, it's not always because some news that BTC changes in price

[romero121]

As Op mentioned whenever there is some growth, the same gets tied up with something happening around. This can be of economical, political or based on some news coming out of large scale firms. This is quite common, and the reason is based on bitcoin being a manipulative asset. With this growth most could've understood, bitcoin has got its own independent market and doesn't bother much about the market changes or political factors.

Same as the growth, by the time of fall also the same practice of relating with different sources were done commonly by journalists and speculators. What we have got with the growth is the effect of the halving and the demanding supply.

[yogg]

Bitcoin doesn't need to be tied to anything.
I believe that at some stage, events that are external to Bitcoin will have an impact on it's price.

That was published three hours ago : https://www.wsj.com/articles/fed-adds-76-6-billion-in-overnight-liquidity-11572270912

The New York Fed added $76.583 billion in liquidity to financial markets Monday.

I wonder if this might be it. Their financial system would fail anyway, with or without BTC.
There was no major financial crisis since the birth of Bitcoin.

What will happen when their system fails ?

[teosanru]

As you know, every time there's a major price movements, the next day people, especially crypto journalists, start coming up with their own explanations why it happened - they try to tie it to some political or economical events in the world, statements by important individuals or organizations, correlation with some other markets, something related to mining and so on and so on.

Well, today Bitcoin went up by 14% ($1,000) without absolutely no reason - nothing important happened today that could have shaken the price so much. Let this be a lesson to people who look for patterns - Bitcoin is random and unpredictable in short terms, just accept it.

Yes I actually I have accepted it too. I won't say it's absolutely unpredictable but alteast it's very hard to predict it using traditional methods of trading. I think bitcoin has been known for making certain excellent movements but almost all of them have defied the charts and patterns. Everyone just two days ago were talking about how bitcoin could go into a bearish phase because the charts say so and suddenly after a couple of greed days things look absolutely changed. I think we need to enhance our systems to make them fit to crypto marketplace.

[vintages]

I totally agree with your first paragraph. Not even only journalist but also 'self-proclaimed' Bicton analyst.
I have come to understand that  them making up stories or prediction is another way they sell themselves, products or services.
You don't blame them also, it is because during every price dumps, investors just want to associate something to be the cause. So the journalist and analysts easily do that for them.

[Hamphser]

I totally agree with your first paragraph. Not even only journalist but also 'self-proclaimed' Bicton analyst.
I have come to understand that  them making up stories or prediction is another way they sell themselves, products or services.
You don't blame them also, it is because during every price dumps, investors just want to associate something to be the cause. So the journalist and analysts easily do that for them.

I think this is their way of making a speculative chart by adding some random events that has nothing to do with the market. This seems to look the same when every time bitcoin is in bullish trend, some random website starting to create FUDs out of nowhere then the weak handed people start to dump as usual since they don't trust their investment. Bitcoin is the future and people should trust on that specially their investment.

[Harlot]

As Op mentioned whenever there is some growth, the same gets tied up with something happening around. This can be of economical, political or based on some news coming out of large scale firms. This is quite common, and the reason is based on bitcoin being a manipulative asset. With this growth most could've understood, bitcoin has got its own independent market and doesn't bother much about the market changes or political factors.

Same as the growth, by the time of fall also the same practice of relating with different sources were done commonly by journalists and speculators. What we have got with the growth is the effect of the halving and the demanding supply.

Halving and the affects of demand and supply isn't really the only ones affecting the price movements in the market. You know why? Because FUD and FOMO are real it may not be related to all the news being tied up by the crypto news sites we are seeing but real world news can really affect the market. One of the worst dumps we have seen this year is when the hashrate went down by 40% it immediately crossed any bullish opportunities Bitcoin has because of the massive offloading that came after. This is just one of the few events related to Bitcoin that really affected its price.

[exstasie]

Do you honestly think you can talk sense in an army of zombies?

This makes me sad and worried about the Bitcoin market, how are we going to curb volatility if people believe in crap like that and refuse to listen to logical arguments? How can we protect decentralization if users are so easily manipulated by crypto news sites?

What does any of this have to do with decentralization?

The tendency for people to irrationally link price moves with news or to fall for FUD isn't limited to Bitcoin. It happens in all markets because of human psychology:

We're simply far more likely to accept a change if we understand the reason for it. Interestingly, our acceptance seems to hinge less on how much we like the reason and more on how much sense the reason makes to us. Even if the change fails to benefit us—even if it causes us harm in some way—if our sense of fairness is satisfied, we're far more likely to accept and even embrace it.

People want easy answers like "good news caused everyone to buy." They can't wrap their head around abstract ideas like "supply and demand" which are determined by endless millions of variables.

[EdenHazard]

Bro, give it up!!! You can't hold the fort!!! It was the Chinese!!
Do you honestly think you can talk sense in an army of zombies?

Let's see the effects, XI makes his speech on the 24th. On the 25th (Chinese time) the news is aired all over China.
But!!!
Nothing happens!
But at 3-4 PM European time, and at 1 AM in the morning (on a SATURDAY) in China, the pump happens!

It was of course because of the Chinese running at midnight to their ATMs (ops, they don't have that in China), .. well-doing something else, (since the banks are closed) and ...they bought bitcoin!!! The Chinese miracle!!!!

Of course, we have to figure out how the previous pump in June that took us from 7700 to 13 500 happened without China, but, I have the feeling it was also becuase of China.

'God created the universe and the rest was made in china' this quote seems so relatable that nowadays everything happened in this world always involved china. Is it really that big? The china impact? Yes it is especially when it comes to cryptocurrency where it's claimed that china are largely responsible for cryptocurrency's success not only because Chinese contribution on the market volume and a lot of huge bitcoin miners are come from china due electricity factor.

It's just classic china.

They only need to pull the trigger and the rest let the crowd make it wild!

[carriebee]

As you know, every time there's a major price movements, the next day people, especially crypto journalists, start coming up with their own explanations why it happened - they try to tie it to some political or economical events in the world, statements by important individuals or organizations, correlation with some other markets, something related to mining and so on and so on.

Well, today Bitcoin went up by 14% ($1,000) without absolutely no reason - nothing important happened today that could have shaken the price so much. Let this be a lesson to people who look for patterns - Bitcoin is random and unpredictable in short terms, just accept it.

That's true and also people must be careful to this hype news about bitcoin price because sometimes this rising of bitcoin price have follows a correction. No one  can predict and can't say why bitcoin is pumping and down the price. There's no correct explanation those journalist spread a news without exact basis.

[hatshepsut93]

What does any of this have to do with decentralization?

If people believe everything they hear from crypto new sites, they can be manipulated in many ways, including to support changes that can harm Bitcoin's decentralization. For example, the /r/Cryptocurrency subreddit has been hating Bitcoin for a long time already and almost everyone there is a fan of some centralized altcoin.

[exstasie]

What does any of this have to do with decentralization?

If people believe everything they hear from crypto new sites, they can be manipulated in many ways, including to support changes that can harm Bitcoin's decentralization. For example, the /r/Cryptocurrency subreddit has been hating Bitcoin for a long time already and almost everyone there is a fan of some centralized altcoin.

What does their "support" amount to though? People like this don't run full nodes and may not even own BTC. What influence do you think they have over the Bitcoin network?

I'm not worried about a bunch of altcoiners chattering on Reddit. They can vote with their feet and dump their BTC into stronger hands, not much else.