A CryptoCurrency Design Paradigm For The Future

[Hydrogen]

One reason for bitcoin being considered a legitimate store of value is its algorithmically limited supply. Bitcoin's design safeguards against hyperinflation and devaluation which have plagued fiat currencies throughout history. Although miners could try to circumvent this design feature by significantly ramping up hash rates, as we have perhaps witnessed of late with the explosion of btc hash.

Bitcoin's relative success has generated a considerable amount of excitement and venture capital similar to the dot com boom. Everyone is looking for the next crypto silver bullet that will propel technology to new heights. Creating innovation, value and wealth. We've seen attempts at incrementally improving bitcoin whether by utilizing different algorithms or variations on proof of work.

What we have not seen are many attempts to get back to the roots of what made bitcoin attractive to many, initially. Which is creating a store of value/currency which is designed to address problems society has faced throughout history like hyperinflation.

Imagine for a second if it were possible to design a cryptocurrency that was resistant to poverty or wealth and wage inequality. What if it were possible to design a cryptocurrency that was resistant to corruption, predatory business practices, unfair taxation or other negatives which have negatively impacted the world forever.

These goals may not be attainable utilizing paper money, gold or hand carved rocks as currencies of exchange. The internet era however opens doors which were previously closed. And so perhaps it is possible to combine facets of game theory with crypto to create a hybridized form of currency which is designed via default to address issues like wage and wealth inequality which represent a foundation for negative societal precedents.

Offhand, I can think of ways this could be achieved. I would like to hear other ideas people have and if people feel like it, start a discussion on this topic. It seems like it could be a cool and futuristic thing to talk about.  

[hello_good_sir]

Interesting idea mate. Had a fun read through it all.

Bitcoin's relative success has generated a considerable amount of excitement and venture capital similar to the dot com boom. Everyone is looking for the next crypto silver bullet that will propel technology to new heights. Creating innovation, value and wealth. We've seen attempts at incrementally improving bitcoin whether by utilizing different algorithms or variations on proof of work.

What we have not seen are many attempts to get back to the roots of what made bitcoin attractive to many, initially. Which is creating a store of value/currency which is designed to address problems society has faced throughout history like hyperinflation.

There's definitely been a lot of "Bitcoin V2"'s over the recent years, but none of them are ones that are exact clones of bitcoin, with all the right things changed, because there's nothing in the bitcoin code/coin that can be changed and just make it better, without compromises. Most of the other spin-offs we've seen in recent years will improve in one aspect (eg, maybe privacy), but then they let the user down in another one.

Imagine for a second if it were possible to design a cryptocurrency that was resistant to poverty or wealth and wage inequality. What if it were possible to design a cryptocurrency that was resistant to corruption, predatory business practices, unfair taxation or other negatives which have negatively impacted the world forever.

These goals may not be attainable utilizing paper money, gold or hand carved rocks as currencies of exchange. The internet era however opens doors which were previously closed. And so perhaps it is possible to combine facets of game theory with crypto to create a hybridized form of currency which is designed via default to address issues like wage and wealth inequality which represent a foundation for negative societal precedents.

Wasn't this what bitcoin was meant to do? And hasn't it accomplished it (to some extent), obviously market manipulation is a thing, but if you think that's an issue we can easily think, I'll be saying that you are dreaming.

Offhand, I can think of ways this could be achieved. I would like to hear other ideas people have and if people feel like it, start a discussion on this topic. It seems like it could be a cool and futuristic thing to talk about. 

None yet, going to go think for a bit. Nice thread.

[EdvinZ]

I think society must first be prepared for the kind of ideal money you have described. Citizens should respect each other, value the work of each member of society and pay for it fairly. All this should be brought up in people, people should sincerely want this social justice, then it is possible to give them ideal money for use. In general, Bitcoin and a number of other cryptocurrencies would be well suited for this. But we must understand that in addition to the absence of inflation, an ideal currency must have a stable price.

[Febo]

One reason for bitcoin being considered a legitimate store of value is its algorithmically limited supply. Bitcoin's design safeguards against hyperinflation and devaluation which have plagued fiat currencies throughout history. Although miners could try to circumvent this design feature by significantly ramping up hash rates, as we have perhaps witnessed of late with the explosion of btc hash.

Can you explain more what you meant here? What can miners do to inflate Bitcoins supply?   Beside to change that in the protocol.

[dothebeats]

We certainly are introduced to a new kind of how we perceive value or rather, how one seemingly unimportant object attains value, and thanks to Satoshi and his brainchild, we are continuously unlocking the possibilities that this financial world has to offer and we're not stuck with the awful Bretton-Woods agreement that plundered every honest man's coffers for decades. I do believe that bitcoin is the start, if not the actual form of money that we're going to use for the next coming years. Had it not been for the efforts of cypherpunks and crypto-anarchists, we will not be where we're at right now discussing about bitcoin and its wonders.

Can you explain more what you meant here? What can miners do to inflate Bitcoins supply?   Beside to change that in the protocol.

One can submit a change in the code and miners can point their hashing power towards it to vote for it to become the main chain/coin, or so at least that's what I think Hydrogen wants to convey with his statement.

[fiulpro]

One reason for bitcoin being considered a legitimate store of value is its algorithmically limited supply. Bitcoin's design safeguards against hyperinflation and devaluation which have plagued fiat currencies throughout history. Although miners could try to circumvent this design feature by significantly ramping up hash rates, as we have perhaps witnessed of late with the explosion of btc hash.

Bitcoin's relative success has generated a considerable amount of excitement and venture capital similar to the dot com boom. Everyone is looking for the next crypto silver bullet that will propel technology to new heights. Creating innovation, value and wealth. We've seen attempts at incrementally improving bitcoin whether by utilizing different algorithms or variations on proof of work.

What we have not seen are many attempts to get back to the roots of what made bitcoin attractive to many, initially. Which is creating a store of value/currency which is designed to address problems society has faced throughout history like hyperinflation.

Imagine for a second if it were possible to design a cryptocurrency that was resistant to poverty or wealth and wage inequality. What if it were possible to design a cryptocurrency that was resistant to corruption, predatory business practices, unfair taxation or other negatives which have negatively impacted the world forever.

These goals may not be attainable utilizing paper money, gold or hand carved rocks as currencies of exchange. The internet era however opens doors which were previously closed. And so perhaps it is possible to combine facets of game theory with crypto to create a hybridized form of currency which is designed via default to address issues like wage and wealth inequality which represent a foundation for negative societal precedents.

Offhand, I can think of ways this could be achieved. I would like to hear other ideas people have and if people feel like it, start a discussion on this topic. It seems like it could be a cool and futuristic thing to talk about.  

The thing is up until now all the currencies are relative , they  are related to one another and that's how they bring about the value , unfortunately the thing is it's as if countries are gaining from other countries suffering , they loan them , then they are supposed to pay it off and gradually it gets worse ,
But bitcoins , is a global currency , no one is getting paid when someone else is suffering , it's something that would help everyone in the time of crisis.
It's growing through supporting one another , not destroying.

[beerlover]

As long as there is a metric someones wealth can be calculated with, there will always be some people who will be richer than the others.

You can call this time (like the Justin Timberlake movie in time) or you can make it bottle caps, doesn't matter what you use even if it is digital but in the end some people will want more of it for no reason at all. In most of the futuristic worlds we get to see some people figuring out a way to automate most of lifes requirements and that is exactly what we need.

Yeah, there could be still some people working and they could be either volunteers or some people who will get more food or bigger houses and whatever which would still be being wealthier than the others but as long as we can find a way to automate everything then we can literally have bare minimum of free house, free foods, free health care and free education plus free utilities (electric, gas, internet etc) if even the poorest of us have these things then whatever you make on top of that is luxury.

[hugeblack]

Imagine for a second if it were possible to design a cryptocurrency that was resistant to poverty or wealth and wage inequality. What if it were possible to design a cryptocurrency that was resistant to corruption, predatory business practices, unfair taxation or other negatives which have negatively impacted the world forever.

I don't know what these things have to do with currencies "cryptocurrency"? For example, wealth is not a shame, but how a fair distribution of all resources can occur.
Poverty is relative, but the minimum rate of poverty can be raised beyond basic life and access to luxury.
Wage inequality is an issue linking the relationship between the worker and the employer. Technology can promote transparency but is a problem for individuals.

The things you mentioned need human management and technology development, but they are not linked to financial aspects or currencies. "Bitcoin cannot solve them because they are not within their purview."


Satoshi's relationship to this topic:
Thinking outside the box will create creative solutions to these problems as Satoshi did

[Hydrogen]

One reason for bitcoin being considered a legitimate store of value is its algorithmically limited supply. Bitcoin's design safeguards against hyperinflation and devaluation which have plagued fiat currencies throughout history. Although miners could try to circumvent this design feature by significantly ramping up hash rates, as we have perhaps witnessed of late with the explosion of btc hash.

Can you explain more what you meant here? What can miners do to inflate Bitcoins supply?   Beside to change that in the protocol.

Have you ever downloaded a file from the internet where the ETA says 2 hours. Then it says 20 minutes. Then it says 5 minutes. A few seconds later it says 2 hours again. Then during the last 30-60 seconds of download the ETA estimate will be inaccurate by a significant margin. I don't know what algorithm Satoshi utilized to determine mining difficulty. It is possible it could have small vulnerabilities to explosions in hash power for reasons similar to file downloads being prone towards algorithmic inaccuracy.

When bitcoin crashed from $10,000 down to $8,000 and below. There was a conspiracy theory floating around that the explosion in BTC hash power was having an effect similar to hyperinflation. Where the supply of BTC was expanding at an accelerated rate which was in turn devaluing it.

This is difficult to validate or debunk. I don't know that anyone keeps track of exactly how many total bitcoins are mined within a 24 hour period. Anyways its just a conspiracy theory that has circulated without much fact checking and so I thought I would bring it up in case someone had a solid answer to it.

[figmentofmyass]

Bitcoin's design safeguards against hyperinflation and devaluation which have plagued fiat currencies throughout history. Although miners could try to circumvent this design feature by significantly ramping up hash rates, as we have perhaps witnessed of late with the explosion of btc hash.

they can't really circumvent it. they can marginally inflate the supply faster than the target time, but arguably the 2-week difficulty adjustment algorithm was designed to allow that. there was already a basic assumption implied, that hash rates wouldn't remain static.

What we have not seen are many attempts to get back to the roots of what made bitcoin attractive to many, initially. Which is creating a store of value/currency which is designed to address problems society has faced throughout history like hyperinflation.

bitcoin was intended to solve the problems of money. that may be where it starts and ends. i'm skeptical that cryptocurrency is the answer to all the world's problems.

Imagine for a second if it were possible to design a cryptocurrency that was resistant to poverty or wealth and wage inequality. What if it were possible to design a cryptocurrency that was resistant to corruption, predatory business practices, unfair taxation or other negatives which have negatively impacted the world forever.

impossible. these are human-induced conditions. cryptocurrency---money---is just an inanimate object. humans will do with it what they will.

there is the idea of a DAO (decentralized autonomous organization) that could allow for decentralized voting and allocation of cryptocurrency. but i'm very skeptical that algorithms and decentralized voting could address fundamental ethical questions like this. how does a DAO know what is "fair"? how do you prevent tyranny of the majority?

[Hydrogen]

impossible.

Imagine if there were an open source altcoin built for corporate utilization. This coin could be implemented on a transparent platform recording all expenditures, taxes, wages and assorted data. Everything would recorded in a public ledger employees can access. All employees would be paid in this altcoin. CEO's and executives have their salaries capped at a set percentage of net revenue. Entry level employees are guaranteed a percentage of revenue as well as periodic salary increases.

A system of crypto payscaling that caps CEO wages while guaranteeing wage hikes for entry level employees could provide a platform for addressing issues relating to wealth and wage inequality. In addition to this, having a public ledger which records transactions could make it more difficult for CEOs and execs to utilize their companies as slush funds to engage in a culture of excess and waste which has become common.

In a digital era it could help to have a public ledger system that records assets versus liabilities. To keep track of exactly what happens on the finance side of things. We live in what is often referred to as an information age. Ironic considering how people have to dig to find data that is really relevent to them.

I'm not really doing this justice. Algorithms are being incorporated everywhere. Why not introduce them in ways with the potential to exert a positive net effect rather than the opposite as has become trendy of late.

[figmentofmyass]

Imagine if there were an open source altcoin built for corporate utilization. This coin could be implemented on a transparent platform recording all expenditures, taxes, wages and assorted data. Everything would recorded in a public ledger employees can access. All employees would be paid in this altcoin. CEO's and executives have their salaries capped at a set percentage of net revenue. Entry level employees are guaranteed a percentage of revenue as well as periodic salary increases.

A system of crypto payscaling that caps CEO wages while guaranteeing wage hikes for entry level employees could provide a platform for addressing issues relating to wealth and wage inequality. In addition to this, having a public ledger which records transactions could make it more difficult for CEOs and execs to utilize their companies as slush funds to engage in a culture of excess and waste which has become common.

In a digital era it could help to have a public ledger system that records assets versus liabilities. To keep track of exactly what happens on the finance side of things. We live in what is often referred to as an information age. Ironic considering how people have to dig to find data that is really relevent to them.

I'm not really doing this justice. Algorithms are being incorporated everywhere. Why not introduce them in ways with the potential to exert a positive net effect rather than the opposite as has become trendy of late.

putting everything on public blockchains can make things transparent, but is transparency all that's required to solve the world's problems? i don't think so. wealth inequality goes much deeper than that---maldistribution of land and capital, rent and interest extraction, and so on.

your idea above sounds nice, but at the end of the day, shareholders won't give up any more profits than they absolutely need do. putting workers under slightly better conditions or executives under slightly worse ones doesn't fundamentally address the deeper problems IMO.

[huu78]

I agree with your reasons why Bitcoin can be a future payment. Bitcoins are now more popular than ever. The increase in bitcoins that now make rich people and change them. I also used to be just regular unemployment and learn what a cryptocurrency is and now change my own life. This blockchain system can be relied on for future payments more secure and transparent. Like China now the government's onslaught told to adopt the blockchain.

[1Referee]

Satoshi's relationship to this topic:
Thinking outside the box will create creative solutions to these problems as Satoshi did

It's quite funny though, because most Bitcoiners aren't open minded at all. I like the way Satoshi accepted the fact that Bitcoin could either end up being extremely successful with a lot of transactional volume, or end up with no volume at all, thus a failure. People here just blindly assume that it will work out where the whole world and animal kingdom will be using it.

I'm sure he would still think like that today and go against moon boys such as Pompliano to make people aware that it's not set in stone that Bitcoin will succeed. We don't have to see the price go through a bull cycle every x number of years. This doesn't mean Bitcoin is a failure, just that the speculative side has lost its shine, which is great for anyone looking to use Bitcoin as a currency the way it happened in the very early days.

Sane minds is what we are lacking here, which is why I browse through Satoshi's posts from time to time. Heck, I'm even missing kwukduck. 

[hatshepsut93]

Imagine for a second if it were possible to design a cryptocurrency that was resistant to poverty or wealth and wage inequality.
  

Those aren't the problems of money, they are the problems of economy. Currencies are just intermediaries for transfering and storing value, they don't create value, they don't produce goods and services.
Sure, you could try to create a coin that automatically redistributes wealth, but even if the software was working, the system overall would most likely not.

What if it were possible to design a cryptocurrency that was resistant to corruption, predatory business practices, unfair taxation or other negatives which have negatively impacted the world forever.

This is out of scope of a currency, you'd need programming for that, like Ethereum or other smart-contract platform, but practice shows that we are extremely far from it - many smart contracts are centralized and require human input, so they still weak to corruption.

[erickastella]

I agree with your opinion above, bitcoin is not only made for savings in the future but with the presence of bitcoin companies in the world competing to create the bockchain technology itself which resulted in a war about crypto, it has been very good for crypto enthusiasts like me, since I know the world of crypto, my life is not like before.

[Hydrogen]

putting everything on public blockchains can make things transparent, but is transparency all that's required to solve the world's problems? i don't think so. wealth inequality goes much deeper than that---maldistribution of land and capital, rent and interest extraction, and so on.

your idea above sounds nice, but at the end of the day, shareholders won't give up any more profits than they absolutely need do. putting workers under slightly better conditions or executives under slightly worse ones doesn't fundamentally address the deeper problems IMO.

I think these fundamental observations do a decent job, highlighting core issues relating to topics like wealth and wage inequality.



Productivity and wealth have skyrocketed, if not doubling, since the 1950s. Benefits have not trickled down.

Lack of transparency is a critical issue. There's no real information or discussion on whether high taxes is a better policy than low taxes. The basic fundamentals of business and economics are beyond the comprehension and knowledge base of most. Analytical frameworks commonly utilized such as MMT - modern monetary theory can be questionable in their approach. Standard statistics like unemployment and inflation have been redefined from their traditional definitions.

I think if issues like wealth or wage inequality will ever be addressed, the average person must become informed and educated on the basic fundamentals. And there's no real incentive or push being made for that to occur aside from cryptocurrencies like bitcoin utilizing different systemic features like deflationary supply to challenge the way people think about money.