[SCAM]NitrogenSports Can't let me withdraw. Forcing me to Place a bet

[NinjaBitcoiner]

Hi Bitcointalk community,

So i deposited 0.8 BTC to NitrogenSports and wanted to place a bet but my tx got little late confirmation and i wasn't able to place the bet on the match i wanted to.
NitrogenSports does not offer in-play bets for tennis so i placed the withdraw request on the same address i used to Deposit my bitcoins.
After 1 hour, they cancelled my withdraw and sent me a message saying i must place a bet and roll-over at least once to withdraw.
This is ridiculous. They can't force me to bet if i don't want to. Further, i am withdrawing bitcoins to the same address i used to deposit. There terms and FAQ doesn't have anything regarding this that i must place a bet to withdraw my coins. Can any one tell me what to do now? My bitcoins stuck on nitrogensports

EDIT:
Please read here the chat i had with NitrogenSports Support: https://imgur.com/a/TEDN2kF

They are literally saying me and forcing me to place a bet if i want to withdraw my BTC. This is no where mentioned in their terms and FAQ that a user must place a bet to withdraw BTC.

UPDATE:
Please support the flag here : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=925
They charged me 3% for withdrawing my own money if i do not wish to bet.

UDDATE 2:
NitrogenSports have refunded my 3% fee as well. I have removed the flag. Thread closed.

[TheNewAnon135246]

Can you post screenshots/e-mails of the exchange between you and their customer service?

[NinjaBitcoiner]

Can you post screenshots/e-mails of the exchange between you and their customer service?

Sure I am editing my original post soon with proof.

Please read here: https://imgur.com/a/TEDN2kF

[actmyname]

Looks like they're forcing you to wager an amount equal to your balance before withdrawals in order to 'protect against money laundering'.

Considering their lowest-edge game still has a 1% edge, they are essentially taking at least 1% of your balance as a fee for each deposit. A hidden withdrawal fee, if you will. This is asinine.
Genuine money launderers would not be stopped with a 1x rollover and this rule only serves to harm your real players. Much like every time some regulation is created to "protect", an unintended consequence (or is it?) arises to kick in the teeth of people who have nothing to do with the regulation.

[NinjaBitcoiner]

Looks like they're forcing you to wager an amount equal to your balance before withdrawals in order to 'protect against money laundering'.

Considering their lowest-edge game still has a 1% edge, they are essentially taking at least 1% of your balance as a fee for each deposit. A hidden withdrawal fee, if you will. This is asinine.
Genuine money launderers would not be stopped with a 1x rollover and this rule only serves to harm your real players. Much like every time some regulation is created to "protect", an unintended consequence (or is it?) arises to kick in the teeth of people who have nothing to do with the regulation.

I am not trying to do money laundering. I asked to send the withdraw to the same address used to deposit. Further, there is no such rule mentioned in their terms or FAQ that i must wager my deposit once to withdraw. So clearly they want to scam me by not letting me withdraw.

[actmyname]

I am not trying to do money laundering. I asked to send the withdraw to the same address used to deposit.

I realize that. They're enforcing a ridiculous rule. It's just like the anti-bonus rules which harm real players much more than those who are abusing it, since they know what they're doing.

Surface-level rules do nothing against who you're trying to stop: people are smarter than that.

Further, there is no such rule mentioned in their terms or FAQ that i must wager my deposit once to withdraw. So clearly they want to scam me by not letting me withdraw.

The whole idea of having Terms of Agreement is also so stupid. Since most of them have the clause, "may be modified at any time," you would have to read them every time you read the service. And moreover, you would have to understand the verbose language just to know what you have to avoid doing.NitrogenSports needs to remove this rule. It does not stop money laundering and the only thing it does is force players to lose money.

[NinjaBitcoiner]

I am not trying to do money laundering. I asked to send the withdraw to the same address used to deposit.

I realize that. They're enforcing a ridiculous rule. It's just like the anti-bonus rules which harm real players much more than those who are abusing it, since they know what they're doing.

Surface-level rules do nothing against who you're trying to stop: people are smarter than that.

Further, there is no such rule mentioned in their terms or FAQ that i must wager my deposit once to withdraw. So clearly they want to scam me by not letting me withdraw.

The whole idea of having Terms of Agreement is also so stupid. Since most of them have the clause, "may be modified at any time," you would have to read them every time you read the service. And moreover, you would have to understand the verbose language just to know what you have to avoid doing.NitrogenSports needs to remove this rule. It does not stop money laundering and the only thing it does is force players to lose money.

BUT if that is the rule then that's hidden and only told by their customer service which is unfair. It should be clearly mentioned in FAQ and terms beforehand. I want my money back and they should refund my money immediately and not scam me. I need support from bitcointalk community here and Default Trust members.

[actmyname]

BUT if that is the rule then that's hidden and only told by their customer service which is unfair. It should be clearly mentioned in FAQ and terms beforehand. I want my money back and they should refund my money immediately and not scam me. I need support from bitcointalk community here and Default Trust members.

For the record, I see it in the "Rules | Cashier Rules" section.

2. Account Withdrawals

[...] After a deposit, significant action (one time rollover) is required in order to proceed with withdrawals.

[NinjaBitcoiner]

BUT if that is the rule then that's hidden and only told by their customer service which is unfair. It should be clearly mentioned in FAQ and terms beforehand. I want my money back and they should refund my money immediately and not scam me. I need support from bitcointalk community here and Default Trust members.

For the record, I see it in the "Rules | Cashier Rules" section.

2. Account Withdrawals

[...] After a deposit, significant action (one time rollover) is required in order to proceed with withdrawals.

Hidden under cashier terms. I only saw general terms. Still this is ridiculous. I can't withdraw my own money. Basically they are forcing me to bet. I even told them that send me the bitcoins back to same address i used to deposit(refund) and now they are not responding. SCAM.
Can any one help me what to do now?

[TheNewAnon135246]

BUT if that is the rule then that's hidden and only told by their customer service which is unfair. It should be clearly mentioned in FAQ and terms beforehand. I want my money back and they should refund my money immediately and not scam me. I need support from bitcointalk community here and Default Trust members.

For the record, I see it in the "Rules | Cashier Rules" section.

2. Account Withdrawals

[...] After a deposit, significant action (one time rollover) is required in order to proceed with withdrawals.

Hidden under cashier terms. I only saw general terms. Still this is ridiculous. I can't withdraw my own money. Basically they are forcing me to bet. I even told them that send me the bitcoins back to same address i used to deposit(refund) and now they are not responding. SCAM.
Can any one help me what to do now?

Technically there is nothing that you can do besides placing a bet. By signing up you have agreed to their terms. I strongly disagree with their rule though, since it has nothing to do with money laundering. If they suspect you are laundering money they shouldn't/wouldn't allow you to bet with those funds.

[NinjaBitcoiner]

BUT if that is the rule then that's hidden and only told by their customer service which is unfair. It should be clearly mentioned in FAQ and terms beforehand. I want my money back and they should refund my money immediately and not scam me. I need support from bitcointalk community here and Default Trust members.

For the record, I see it in the "Rules | Cashier Rules" section.

2. Account Withdrawals

[...] After a deposit, significant action (one time rollover) is required in order to proceed with withdrawals.

Hidden under cashier terms. I only saw general terms. Still this is ridiculous. I can't withdraw my own money. Basically they are forcing me to bet. I even told them that send me the bitcoins back to same address i used to deposit(refund) and now they are not responding. SCAM.
Can any one help me what to do now?

Technically there is nothing that you can do besides placing a bet. By signing up you have agreed to their terms. I strongly disagree with their rule though, since it has nothing to do with money laundering. If they suspect you are laundering money they shouldn't/wouldn't allow you to bet with those funds.

I agree, I am awaiting response from NitrogenSports here on this thread or there own thread. They should refund my bitcoin back to the same address i sent it from. They can't force someone to bet if he/she doesn't want to.

[suchmoon]

Hidden under cashier terms. I only saw general terms. Still this is ridiculous. I can't withdraw my own money. Basically they are forcing me to bet. I even told them that send me the bitcoins back to same address i used to deposit(refund) and now they are not responding. SCAM.
Can any one help me what to do now?

Make a lot of tiny bets on the lowest-edge game (don't bet all at once!) and withdraw what you got. Most likely you'll have less money (minus house edge) as a result but technically they're right and you're wrong. Having said that, there's probably a case to be made for a neg trust rating or even a newbie flag, depending on how prominent those terms are when you're signing up for an account and depositing funds into the account.

[NinjaBitcoiner]

Hidden under cashier terms. I only saw general terms. Still this is ridiculous. I can't withdraw my own money. Basically they are forcing me to bet. I even told them that send me the bitcoins back to same address i used to deposit(refund) and now they are not responding. SCAM.
Can any one help me what to do now?

Make a lot of tiny bets on the lowest-edge game (don't bet all at once!) and withdraw what you got. Most likely you'll have less money (minus house edge) as a result but technically they're right and you're wrong. Having said that, there's probably a case to be made for a neg trust rating or even a newbie flag, depending on how prominent those terms are when you're signing up for an account and depositing funds into the account.

There's no guarantee they will process my withdraw even after that because they have stopped responding to my support tickets and even banned me in their chat on their website. I am feeling so upset right now and i have no idea what to do? They should refund my deposit. I hope they respond here and DT members take a look at my case  

[actmyname]

depending on how prominent those terms are when you're signing up for an account and depositing funds into the account.

Those terms are pretty hidden-away. Took me a bit to find it and I was looking for it.

They have a ridiculously long "Rules" section in the bottom of their page.

[NinjaBitcoiner]

Hidden under cashier terms. I only saw general terms. Still this is ridiculous. I can't withdraw my own money. Basically they are forcing me to bet. I even told them that send me the bitcoins back to same address i used to deposit(refund) and now they are not responding. SCAM.
Can any one help me what to do now?

Make a lot of tiny bets on the lowest-edge game (don't bet all at once!) and withdraw what you got. Most likely you'll have less money (minus house edge) as a result but technically they're right and you're wrong. Having said that, there's probably a case to be made for a neg trust rating or even a newbie flag, depending on how prominent those terms are when you're signing up for an account and depositing funds into the account.

Can someone guide me ? I don't know how much house edge NitrogenSports have. My money is trapped in there and i just want to withdraw it back. Hope someone from nitrogenstaff respond here about their ridiculous rule.

[actmyname]

Can someone guide me ? I don't know how much house edge NitrogenSports have. My money is trapped in there and i just want to withdraw it back. Hope someone from nitrogenstaff respond here about their ridiculous rule.

Like I said in the PM's, NitrogenSports's dice game has a 1% house edge.

The jackpot kicks it to about 0.7% (1.2BTC is breakeven) as long as your bets are over 0.001, which is a reasonable amount of variance against 800 bets.

[NinjaBitcoiner]

Can someone guide me ? I don't know how much house edge NitrogenSports have. My money is trapped in there and i just want to withdraw it back. Hope someone from nitrogenstaff respond here about their ridiculous rule.

Like I said in the PM's, NitrogenSports's dice game has a 1% house edge.

The jackpot kicks it to about 0.7% (1.2BTC is breakeven) as long as your bets are over 0.001, which is a reasonable amount of variance against 800 bets.

I got response from support and they told me they will charge 5% fees if i do not want to bet or gamble. That's a lot of fees.

[actmyname]

I got response from support and they told me they will charge 5% fees if i do not want to bet or gamble. That's a lot of fees.

In that case, the most efficient solution for you would be to use the dice game to wager the rollover. If NitrogenSports would respond to this thread, though, that would be even better.

Like I said: the rule doesn't stop true money launderers. And with this 5% fee clause, it only adds to the argument.

[NinjaBitcoiner]

I got response from support and they told me they will charge 5% fees if i do not want to bet or gamble. That's a lot of fees.

In that case, the most efficient solution for you would be to use the dice game to wager the rollover. If NitrogenSports would respond to this thread, though, that would be even better.

Like I said: the rule doesn't stop true money launderers. And with this 5% fee clause, it only adds to the argument.

This is their response: https://imgur.com/a/Yljn3XR

I am not sure if i wager and withdraw will they even let me withdraw because they told that after you have wager create a support ticket and they will then review the account.

[actmyname]

I am not sure if i wager and withdraw will they even let me withdraw because they told that after you have wager create a support ticket and they will then review the account.

Feels like they're trying to catch-22 you.

Can't withdraw without wagering...
But can't wager safely without looking like "money laundering".Perhaps the best thing to do right now is wait for an official response so you won't be targeted in the latter case.

[suchmoon]

This is their response: https://imgur.com/a/Yljn3XR

WTF

Is that also hidden somewhere in the rules? I can't find it. Sounds like straight-up extortion.

NitrogenSports, if you're reading this - just send the money back to the customer's original address and stop fucking around. Clearly there is no laundering going on, otherwise you wouldn't be trying to profit from such illegal activities, would you?

[NinjaBitcoiner]

I am not sure if i wager and withdraw will they even let me withdraw because they told that after you have wager create a support ticket and they will then review the account.

Feels like they're trying to catch-22 you.

Can't withdraw without wagering...
But can't wager safely without looking like "money laundering".Perhaps the best thing to do right now is wait for an official response so you won't be targeted in the latter case.

I am not going to risk it because it's a big amount for me. I agreed to pay 5% fees but i am never again going to use their site again. Unethical way to scam people off their hard earned money

I placed the withdraw request again. I hope they send it now (by deducting 5%)

[NinjaBitcoiner]

This is their response: https://imgur.com/a/Yljn3XR

WTF

Is that also hidden somewhere in the rules? I can't find it. Sounds like straight-up extortion.

NitrogenSports, if you're reading this - just send the money back to the customer's original address and stop fucking around. Clearly there is no laundering going on, otherwise you wouldn't be trying to profit from such illegal activities, would you?

They won't. I wonder why no one from DefaultTrust -ve trust them

[actmyname]

They won't. I wonder why no one from DefaultTrust -ve trust them

Two users have sent negative feedback to the NitrogenSports account.

I placed the withdraw request again. I hope they send it now (by deducting 5%)

I don't think you should play into their hand. This is just giving them the money for free.

[NinjaBitcoiner]

They won't. I wonder why no one from DefaultTrust -ve trust them

Two users have sent negative feedback to the NitrogenSports account.

I placed the withdraw request again. I hope they send it now (by deducting 5%)

I don't think you should play into their hand. This is just giving them the money for free.

I don't have any choice here. Do i? It's big amount for me. if they wanted to refund they would have but clearly they want to charge 5% for nothing. Let's see when they process the withdraw (deducting 5%). I still want to get an official response from NitrogenSports on this thread.

[actmyname]

I don't have any choice here. Do i? It's big amount for me. if they wanted to refund they would have but clearly they want to charge 5% for nothing. Let's see when they process the withdraw (deducting 5%). I still want to get an official response from NitrogenSports on this thread.

Well, I would have waited for a response.

You can always take the 5% later if there isn't a favorable conclusion but there's no going back once they have already taken your money. They'll just claim "you agreed".

[suchmoon]

They won't. I wonder why no one from DefaultTrust -ve trust them

As actmyname mentioned they already got negative trust and I would suggest that you create a flag. If there is no mention of a 5% fee in their terms/rules then an "implied contract" flag (second option) is appropriate I think. Otherwise a "high-risk" flag (first option) can be created.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;addflag=88706

I still want to get an official response from NitrogenSports on this thread.

I have sent a PM to the NitrogenSports account. We should give them 24-48 hours.

Well, I would have waited for a response.

You can always take the 5% later if there isn't a favorable conclusion but there's no going back once they have already taken your money. They'll just claim "you agreed".

I would have waited too but I understand the OP - it's a lot of money and that anxiety is what shady actors tend to prey on. Still NitrogenSports can fix it at any time if they wish. Nothing is preventing them from refunding the fee later. I'd like to hear their side of the story. It sounds extremely fishy to demand a fee in these circumstances.

[NinjaBitcoiner]

I don't have any choice here. Do i? It's big amount for me. if they wanted to refund they would have but clearly they want to charge 5% for nothing. Let's see when they process the withdraw (deducting 5%). I still want to get an official response from NitrogenSports on this thread.

Well, I would have waited for a response.

You can always take the 5% later if there isn't a favorable conclusion but there's no going back once they have already taken your money. They'll just claim "you agreed".

I agreed for 3% though. let's see what they do.

[randiro]

I don't have any choice here. Do i? It's big amount for me. if they wanted to refund they would have but clearly they want to charge 5% for nothing. Let's see when they process the withdraw (deducting 5%). I still want to get an official response from NitrogenSports on this thread.

Well, I would have waited for a response.

You can always take the 5% later if there isn't a favorable conclusion but there's no going back once they have already taken your money. They'll just claim "you agreed".

I agreed for 3% though. let's see what they do.

I'm having the same problem with these motherfuckers 3 btc still ON HOLD F***k! NinjaBitcoiner Please pm me 

[NinjaBitcoiner]

So this is their response on bitcointalk: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=355081.msg52920789#msg52920789

Pretty vague. They still haven't officially stated they are asking 5% fees in the forums.
By their post it seems, i am doing something wrong or trying to launder money. How is this money laundering if the deposit and withdraw address are same and amount is also same?

[NinjaBitcoiner]

I have raised the flag https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=925

Please support. They charged me 3% for withdrawing my own money if i do not wish to bet.

[NitrogenSports]

Hi NinjaBitcoiner,

I wanted to come on BT to discuss the particulars of your case and to explain why our team overlooked some key factors when arriving at a decision about your account. I'm also going to clarify our position and explain publicly why in a practical sense we have a policy to charge fees for non active withdrawals.

In your case, you explained clearly to our team both here on BT and via ticketing that you moved your deposit into the system, and while waiting for a confirmation, tried to bet on a tennis event, but by the time it had confirmed, the line was already down. This should have been something our team cross-referenced when you brought your case to us. That didn't happen and we apologize. With proper hindsight we should have corroborated your story with what we knew about your activity. For this reason, we are crediting back the full amount that was charged to you initially for having a non-action withdrawal request.

In cases when an account has very little history with us, it can be difficult to assess user intent when they want to withdraw a non-action balance.  I want to clarify that we still do have a fee policy for non-action withdrawals as outlined in Rule 19:

"Nitrogen Sports reserves the right to apply extra processing fees to any withdrawal of funds if an account is not in compliance with our rules, fair play or valid action requirements."

...  but that decisions will be assessed on a case-by-case basis and if we can determine to our satisfaction that there was no malicious intent, we will try to avoid charging this fee. The fee is not something that we enjoy charging, but it's a necessary tool in order to cover ourselves for a variety of reasons; both internal and external.

Again, we apologize for the time you spent trying to defend yourself, and we'll be available to you or to anyone else who may have questions regarding this policy.

Thanks,

[NinjaBitcoiner]

Hi NinjaBitcoiner,

I wanted to come on BT to discuss the particulars of your case and to explain why our team overlooked some key factors when arriving at a decision about your account. I'm also going to clarify our position and explain publicly why in a practical sense we have a policy to charge fees for non active withdrawals.

In your case, you explained clearly to our team both here on BT and via ticketing that you moved your deposit into the system, and while waiting for a confirmation, tried to bet on a tennis event, but by the time it had confirmed, the line was already down. This should have been something our team cross-referenced when you brought your case to us. That didn't happen and we apologize. With proper hindsight we should have corroborated your story with what we knew about your activity. For this reason, we are crediting back the full amount that was charged to you initially for having a non-action withdrawal request.

In cases when an account has very little history with us, it can be difficult to assess user intent when they want to withdraw a non-action balance.  I want to clarify that we still do have a fee policy for non-action withdrawals as outlined in Rule 19:

"Nitrogen Sports reserves the right to apply extra processing fees to any withdrawal of funds if an account is not in compliance with our rules, fair play or valid action requirements."

...  but that decisions will be assessed on a case-by-case basis and if we can determine to our satisfaction that there was no malicious intent, we will try to avoid charging this fee. The fee is not something that we enjoy charging, but it's a necessary tool in order to cover ourselves for a variety of reasons; both internal and external.

Again, we apologize for the time you spent trying to defend yourself, and we'll be available to you or to anyone else who may have questions regarding this policy.

Thanks,

Your team and you have closed my account after charging 3% for withdraw. I am not able to login as it shows now "invalid username/password". You can refund me 0.024 BTC that was charged to me to the same address i used for deposit. Check your pm.

[Get-Paid.com]

If Nitrogen had more variety and proper in live betting it would have been easier to roll this over, but 0.8 BTC is a high amount and even some ITF tennis matches with 1.0001 odds are limited to 0.025 BTC which is unfair as it's impossible to roll over the entire funds.

The best I could suggest is to look for a heavy favorite NBA team with 1.02 or take Orlando vs Knicks tonight, money line bet - but it carries a huge risk so the logical thing was to withdraw with a fee.

If they would have let you risk 0.01 BTC out of the 0.8 BTC and at worse lose 0.01 BTC and withdraw 0.79 BTC - then it would have been fair, but they seem to insist they want the entire deposit to be rolled over - why?

[actmyname]

If they would have let you risk 0.01 BTC out of the 0.8 BTC and at worse lose 0.01 BTC and withdraw 0.79 BTC - then it would have been fair, but they seem to insist they want the entire deposit to be rolled over - why?

Like I said, the rule doesn't make sense either.

If someone truly wanted to launder, then the rollover term wouldn't stop them. They would go into NitrogenSports's dice game, roll fractions of their balance at 98% (while keeping the jackpot on) and then withdraw immediately afterwards. The rule doesn't punish money laundering - it punishes players that bet conservatively.

[NinjaBitcoiner]

If they would have let you risk 0.01 BTC out of the 0.8 BTC and at worse lose 0.01 BTC and withdraw 0.79 BTC - then it would have been fair, but they seem to insist they want the entire deposit to be rolled over - why?

Like I said, the rule doesn't make sense either.

If someone truly wanted to launder, then the rollover term wouldn't stop them. They would go into NitrogenSports's dice game, roll fractions of their balance at 98% (while keeping the jackpot on) and then withdraw immediately afterwards. The rule doesn't punish money laundering - it punishes players that bet conservatively.

Today NitrogenSports send me a PM and saying they credited me 0.024 BTC (3% they charged) to my account and i can withdraw it. But they already closed my account on NitrogenSports yesterday so i have no idea what game they are playing by lying to me. I can't login. it says "invalid username/password" 

[Get-Paid.com]

Today NitrogenSports send me a PM and saying they credited me 0.024 BTC (3% they charged) to my account and i can withdraw it. But they already closed my account on NitrogenSports yesterday so i have no idea what game they are playing by lying to me. I can't login. it says "invalid username/password" 

They must have credited your account and would let you withdraw, it looks like they are doing the right thing here - you cannot lose anything further as the account is closed - so give them a bit of time to see if this will get resolved to your satisfaction.

[adroitful_one]

I got response from support and they told me they will charge 5% fees if i do not want to bet or gamble. That's a lot of fees.

In that case, the most efficient solution for you would be to use the dice game to wager the rollover. If NitrogenSports would respond to this thread, though, that would be even better.

Like I said: the rule doesn't stop true money launderers. And with this 5% fee clause, it only adds to the argument.

This is their response: https://imgur.com/a/Yljn3XR

I am not sure if i wager and withdraw will they even let me withdraw because they told that after you have wager create a support ticket and they will then review the account.

I can probably help with this as myself and a few family members have went through this before with them. You will be able to withdrawal after you wager, but it will take up to a week for them to review the account. I know this because my Dad one time deposited $100 and got it up over 2 BTC from the blackjack. They said 24 hours for the review, then they bumped it up to 3 days, then the same thing with the invalid username/password thing came up and he had to contact them through e-mail to resolve that,  then it finally went through after about 5 days. At which point he had already lost some back to them.  It wasn't until I opened a scam accusation against them on here that they expedited the process. It really got their attention when someone like myself with a good trust rating is opening scam accusations against them I guess. Once they verify your account through the review, as long as you don't change your ip or anything, you shouldn't have any issues anymore. I've not really used them much since all that went down. You will eventually get your funds back though. I guess they make you wager it since there is some, albeit not that much, fees involved in the withdrawal. Best of luck to you. If you need my help or advice on anything, let me know.

[marlboroza]

Anonymous site which complies with AML policy and doesn't enforce KYC? Nop, it does not exist. If someone deposit money and choose not to gamble I am pretty sure they should be allowed to withdraw their deposited money without any problem and without fees.

If someone truly wanted to launder, then the rollover term wouldn't stop them.

Of course, it sounds like "this player wagered 1X their deposit amount therefore they are not laundering money and their money didn't come from illegal activities". Makes exactly 0 sense.
@Nitrogensport, other than you are forcing users to gamble, what is reason behind rollover and nonsensical fees?