Anonymity with BTC via XMR

[DarkFire333]

Hello,I know its better to use only XMR to make sure to stay anonymous. However some merchants still dont accept monero, and somtimes people also just want to pay you with BTC.

So what do you think of following anonymity plan regarding BTC usage (combined with XMR):

BTC Address W (mine, not anonym) -> BTC Address X (controlled by Morpthoken service, converts to XMR. this is input address for conversion)XMR Address A (controlled by Morphtoken, output address) -> XMR Address B (mine) -> XMR Address C (controlled by XMR.to service, converts to BTC. this is input address for conversion)BTC Address Y (controlled by XMR.to service, output address) -> BTC Address Z (mine, anonym) -> BTC Address V (merchant)

So the coins from the first BTC address shouldnt be traceable to the last BTC address. Assume also that for each transaction you use different amount at different time.And since we use also two different conversion services you make sure that the services self arent a weak point (and do not require registration).

What do you think of this anonymity/privacy plan? I think it is far more recommended than using any BTC mixing service (many are proven to be unsecure).

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[JeromeTash]

-snip-

BTC Address W (mine, not anonym) -> BTC Address X (controlled by Morpthoken service, converts to XMR. this is input address for conversion)XMR Address A (controlled by Morphtoken, output address) -> XMR Address B (mine) -> XMR Address C (controlled by XMR.to service, converts to BTC. this is input address for conversion)BTC Address Y (controlled by XMR.to service, output address) -> BTC Address Z (mine, anonym) -> BTC Address V (merchant)

-snip -

What do you think of this anonymity/privacy plan? I think it is far more recommended than using any BTC mixing service (many are proven to be unsecure).

So much for trying to be anonymous.
If i may ask, what is the purpose of going through all this trouble by carrying out the steps you have mentioned above? Is it an attempt to cover up the tinted BTC

First the different swappings are going to cost you lots of funds in terms service fees, slippage fees, tx fees between the different addresses.

Honestly if i did nothing bad with my bitcoins, i don't think it's necessary to go through all that processes of trying to hide my transaction trail. Bitcoin mixers or coin swap services are more than enough.

[hello_good_sir]

-snip-

BTC Address W (mine, not anonym) -> BTC Address X (controlled by Morpthoken service, converts to XMR. this is input address for conversion)XMR Address A (controlled by Morphtoken, output address) -> XMR Address B (mine) -> XMR Address C (controlled by XMR.to service, converts to BTC. this is input address for conversion)BTC Address Y (controlled by XMR.to service, output address) -> BTC Address Z (mine, anonym) -> BTC Address V (merchant)

-snip -

What do you think of this anonymity/privacy plan? I think it is far more recommended than using any BTC mixing service (many are proven to be unsecure).

So much for trying to be anonymous.
If i may ask, what is the purpose of going through all this trouble by carrying out the steps you have mentioned above? Is it an attempt to cover up the tinted BTC

First the different swappings are going to cost you lots of funds in terms service fees, slippage fees, tx fees between the different addresses.

Honestly if i did nothing bad with my bitcoins, i don't think it's necessary to go through all that processes of trying to hide my transaction trail. Bitcoin mixers or coin swap services are more than enough.

I reckon it'll likely just him trying to hide where his bitcoin is from, and also from what addresses/how much BTC he might have.

If you're going through all the hassle to exchange bitcoin to XMR, it could likely work with any coin. ETH, XRP, they would all be extremely hard to track unless the exchange or mixer gives up your details, otherwise, you should be fine.

There might be something perfect for this - have you seen privcoin? They do multicurrency mixing (deposit BTC, get ETH, etc).

[BitMaxz]

How did you found the "Morpthoken service" never heard this before and it seems they don't require KYC verification?

Anyway, your plan is good to make your BTC anonymous but like the above said you spending too much time and fees.
Why not try Chipmixer under my signature to mix your coins (not actually a mixed coin what you can get is new coins) this is a unique one compared to old or other mixing competitors. You don't need to do all of those steps you mention above just to hide or make your BTC anonymous.

[DarkFire333]

first of all, thank you all for the feedback!


well its not like i did something very illegal. I just want to go sure. Anonymity is important for me.

The concept I suggested has one advantage: anonymity is assured by monero which is open source. Those mixer services are mostly not open-source and have more likely a vulnerability than monero.


and yes both services (morpthoken and xmr.to) have no KYC, no registration

Yes the fee's are def a con. I already tried it, its smth about 5% fee in total.

@BitMaxz, thats a very interesting method. Heard that first time that a "mixing" service doesnt actually mix but use new coins. I will have a look. The good thing is, you can verify that the coins are new.
Edit: cant see on the chipmixer website, that they mention to use new coins :S ?

[CryptoBry]

Hello,I know its better to use only XMR to make sure to stay anonymous. However some merchants still dont accept monero, and somtimes people also just want to pay you with BTC.

So what do you think of following anonymity plan regarding BTC usage (combined with XMR):

BTC Address W (mine, not anonym) -> BTC Address X (controlled by Morpthoken service, converts to XMR. this is input address for conversion)XMR Address A (controlled by Morphtoken, output address) -> XMR Address B (mine) -> XMR Address C (controlled by XMR.to service, converts to BTC. this is input address for conversion)BTC Address Y (controlled by XMR.to service, output address) -> BTC Address Z (mine, anonym) -> BTC Address V (merchant)

So the coins from the first BTC address shouldnt be traceable to the last BTC address. Assume also that for each transaction you use different amount at different time.And since we use also two different conversion services you make sure that the services self arent a weak point (and do not require registration).

What do you think of this anonymity/privacy plan? I think it is far more recommended than using any BTC mixing service (many are proven to be unsecure).

I really do admire your suggestion here and I think Bitcoin holders who are crazy about being completely anonymous with their transactions and who are not preferring the use of mixers can then use your good idea here. As for me, since I do not have a lot of Bitcoin and I am not afraid to be exposed anyway, this can just be adding more hassles and potentially a confusing maze for me with a chance that I can be totally lost in the process. I am one of those people who are completely satisfied with Bitcoin being pseudonymous (not anonymous, as many assumed Bitcoin to be). My current government does not yet care how many Bitcoin I am holding and if I am already gaining with it because the laws here are taxing the transactions and we have the freedom to declare or not to declare our Bitcoin activities. And I am not telling what is my country, for now, to avoid the tax people from changing their approach. 

[Deathwing]

I get why you would like to stay anonymous but there is a huge fee attached to this, not to mention the credibility of the exchanges you have mentioned. You'll probably be a lot better off by just sending your BTC to an instant exchanger(s) a few times and even that stays under (mostly) 3% fee. And most likely provides the same amount of anonymity. Other than that, lowest fee and fastest transaction would definitely be covered by the mixers. Whether to trust or trust which one, however, is your call.

[Kemarit]

Maybe you need to read this:

1. (https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/9yzsw5/morphtoken_issue/)
2. (https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/9a1vpd/morphtoken_is_dishonest_about_how_much_you_get/)
3. (https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/c1l9dp/do_not_use_morphtoken_you_will_not_receive_your/)

You may also want to look at this thread, CoinJoin: Bitcoin privacy for the real world.

Congratulations to the Wasabi and JoinMarket developers! JoinMarket pioneered a lot of CoinJoin science (and BTW, belcher wrote an excellent & comprehensive wiki article on privacy), while Wasabi is the first wallet that implements CoinJoin in both a highly-usable and sound way. As both a signer and a donor to the CoinJoin bounty fund, I'm thrilled that these two pieces of software exist!

For everyone looking to improve their privacy, I highly recommend checking out Wasabi, especially over centralized "mixers".


Further work is still necessary toward achieving default-fungibility, which is IMO the end goal. Even with Wasabi, you need a fair bit of expertise to maintain privacy, and the vast majority of people are using wallets that are terrible privacy-wise. Without intending to say that the bounty fund will reward people for these specific things, I'd personally like to see:

 - Improvements to make Wasabi more of a complete wallet.
 - CoinJoin integration in other wallets, especially Bitcoin Core.
 - Research on doing CoinJoin in decentralized ways. (Wasabi's method is pretty secure, but requires a centralized coordinator.)
 - Other research (and, perhaps more importantly, usable products) for improving day-to-day privacy.

[pooya87]

whenever it comes to anonymity it all comes down to who you are trying to hide from and why. for example if it is to gain some more "privacy" from random Joe on the internet knowing what you do and how much bitcoin you own, there are much simpler methods with a lot less fees. for instance simply avoiding address reuse and input consolidation increases your privacy a lot. there are also better ways such as CoinJoin you could use. if more anonymity is required the centralized mixers could be used.
as for Monero, the main problem is with buying it. specially when you buy it from a service that is a little shady. you can't really expect that much anonymity in the end, and that is only if they don't rob you.
and finally if you are trying to hide from the "law" (doing something illegal) then it is best not to use any cryptocurrency in first place and stick to good old cash.

read this too: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5146241.0

[suzanne5223]

Monero has been overrated for years and it still is, privacy coins are being delisted more and more every day and that fucks volume over to a handful of exchanges which can more easily be manipulated.

I won't say Monero is overrated for years because a coin in which every user or holder can not see each other balances or transactions is definitely a privacy coin and the reason why it was delisted on some exchange site is the issue of the government totally detest the coin and promise to go extra length to vapourize the coin.

[Kyraishi]

Monero has been overrated for years and it still is, privacy coins are being delisted more and more every day and that fucks volume over to a handful of exchanges which can more easily be manipulated.

I won't say Monero is overrated for years because a coin in which every user or holder can not see each other balances or transactions is definitely a privacy coin and the reason why it was delisted on some exchange site is the issue of the government totally detest the coin and promise to go extra length to vapourize the coin.

It's a anoymity based coin. Bitcoin was made so people would have a bit of each, transparency (with the open ledger), anoymity (no one knows who has what address), etc. Monero purely focuses on one aspect of it.

Coinjoin is a very good option, but to be honest - if your not transacting a huge amount of Bitcoin, or your doing something illegal, there's no need to waste so much in fees and time - just use a mixer like chipmixer and you'll be safe.

[hermawan9416]

I think anonymity is no longer possible.

[BitHodler]

Monero has been overrated for years and it still is, privacy coins are being delisted more and more every day and that fucks volume over to a handful of exchanges which can more easily be manipulated.

I actually like XMR because it's fundamentally different from Bitcoin, so there is an actual utility here that people can tap into that they can't get with Bitcoin. In that sense it's actually one of the very few altcoins with true value.

I do however agree that from an investing and liquidity perspective, it's not going to bode well for XMR and other privacy coins with how more and more exchanges are forced to delist them.

The thing however is that you don't have much privacy when you buy privacy coins from an exchange to begin with, so in that sense it's actually better to have exchanges delist them because it forces people to buy them locally or through a DEX.

[1Referee]

You'll probably be a lot better off by just sending your BTC to an instant exchanger(s) a few times and even that stays under (mostly) 3% fee. And most likely provides the same amount of anonymity.

Nowadays there are no non-kyc instant exchangers anymore with enough volume to let you swap a decent number of your tainted coins for some other tainted coins. On top of that, instant exchangers may put your transaction on hold to request additional personal information from you. When that happens, you're toasted.

Other than that, lowest fee and fastest transaction would definitely be covered by the mixers. Whether to trust or trust which one, however, is your call.

I rather trust a mixer who's only task is to mix coins than to trust instant exchangers that at any time can change their terms silently to subject you to some crappy new kyc terms because they have to comply with regulations. Easy choice for me. Mixers are generally MUCH cheaper too.

[Qunner]

Hello,I know its better to use only XMR to make sure to stay anonymous. However some merchants still dont accept monero, and somtimes people also just want to pay you with BTC.

So what do you think of following anonymity plan regarding BTC usage (combined with XMR):

BTC Address W (mine, not anonym) -> BTC Address X (controlled by Morpthoken service, converts to XMR. this is input address for conversion)XMR Address A (controlled by Morphtoken, output address) -> XMR Address B (mine) -> XMR Address C (controlled by XMR.to service, converts to BTC. this is input address for conversion)BTC Address Y (controlled by XMR.to service, output address) -> BTC Address Z (mine, anonym) -> BTC Address V (merchant)

So the coins from the first BTC address shouldnt be traceable to the last BTC address. Assume also that for each transaction you use different amount at different time.And since we use also two different conversion services you make sure that the services self arent a weak point (and do not require registration).

What do you think of this anonymity/privacy plan? I think it is far more recommended than using any BTC mixing service (many are proven to be unsecure).

I'm pretty sure you are aware of this already, but make sure you use a VPN. If you don't use a VPN and the coins are logged from going into from the same unprotected IP address to the same one, there pretty much is no anonymity; plus, if your are involved in anything suspicious or illegal this could be a serious problem for you. Also try using a VPN server that is local to you, but not exactly where your from, example: If you are from Frankfurt Germany, consider using a VPN server that is located in Berlin to move your coins from a wallet into another with one conversion service, then use another VPN server located in Cologne to move the coins mentioned before into a new clean wallet. Remember repetition is bad, it will mess you over. Do not use Tor as it could work for you, but is considered suspicious and maybe illegal for you in your country or link you if you are going to a Bitcoin ATM to cash out your BTC.

[Qunner]

I think anonymity is no longer possible.

One's anonymity disappears only when they choose to resign their anonymity.
Have fun moving continents, burning all your stuff and getting a new identity.

[Tipstar]

This would be a good way to send bitcoin anonymously. But there could be one problem. The service providing this needs to know the sending address of sender and receiving address of the receiver and also the amount in order to deliver correctly. Which could be compromised.

[suzanne5223]

Monero has been overrated for years and it still is, privacy coins are being delisted more and more every day and that fucks volume over to a handful of exchanges which can more easily be manipulated.

I won't say Monero is overrated for years because a coin in which every user or holder can not see each other balances or transactions is definitely a privacy coin and the reason why it was delisted on some exchange site is the issue of the government totally detest the coin and promise to go extra length to vapourize the coin.

It's a anoymity based coin. Bitcoin was made so people would have a bit of each, transparency (with the open ledger), anoymity (no one knows who has what address), etc. Monero purely focuses on one aspect of it.

Coinjoin is a very good option, but to be honest - if your not transacting a huge amount of Bitcoin, or your doing something illegal, there's no need to waste so much in fees and time - just use a mixer like chipmixer and you'll be safe.

You're right with what you said about Bitcoin and Monero but what your own food might be someone else poison and I don't see anything involving the spending of much fees in terms of using coinjoin enable wallet or Monero while the uses of the crypto tumbler are what require some certain fees.

[superman25]

Your proposal is very good, it is a mixture formula that protects privacy a lot, however, the use of eminently private currencies such as Monero and Zcash is quite advantageous, the only problem is that the level of acceptance is relatively low and in some Exchanges They are centralized, but we all know that KYC is required and although that information is only used by the Exchange, at any time it is available to someone who requests it through a legal mechanism.