a society question about vegans

[merchantofzeny]

I think what would change is that all the land used for livestock and growing feeds could be switched to farms or maybe converted to other uses. Not sure what to do with all the farm animals once they get phased out.

Maybe the change can be gradual, with meat getting more and more expensive as meat substitutes get better and cheaper and then eventually only a few breeders remain.

The reason we have some teeth is, for us to be able to munch some meat. how do can they deny that we as a human being doesn't need to eat meat because of some belief that doesn't have a root.

We have evolved to be omnivores. It's natural that we eat meat, yes. Our bodies need the nutrients that are in meat.
However - doesn't mean that we can't get those nutrients elsewhere, doesn't mean we can't eat a healthy non-meat diet.
Veganism is not natural for humans. But it's not natural that we have cars and computers, it's not natural that we have glasses to correct our eyesight, etc etc.

I might go full vegan once we can have lab-grown meat that have the same taste and texture as real meat.

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[iluvbitcoins]

Considering this it's really weird to see vegans live longer lives on average.
I think there's reasonable suspicion to think it might have something to do with the average vegans healthy lifestyle in contrast to the average meat-eater.

considering veganism is coined in 1944 (75 years ago) its not actually got to a stage of proving 'live longer' as the average age of any human diet is higher than vegan age.

by the way there are some people that smoke all their lives and live until 100+ .. but that does not mean on average smoking makes you live longer, obviously

what you also find out is things like people who want a 'healthy lifestyle' usually ensure they go to have their regular doctor checkups and they examine their body more often. nothing to do with diet but just general awareness of health. where as some people who dont care about health just avoid the doctors as its inconvenient.
thus without even discussing what type of food goes into someones mouth. stats would show the health conscious people would show as having their doctor find cancers earlier than someone not health conscious.. simply because the stats sway to the health conscious people simply turning up for health checkups. emphasis nothing to do with diet

There's this
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/vegan-meat-life-expectancy-eggs-dairy-research-a7168036.html

There's this. It shows lower mortality rates with those taking plant protein vs animal protein. But it's about substituting animal protein for plant protein. I wonder how easy it is for vegans to intake the same amount of plant protein that we do by eating meat. Would you take enough naturally?

[franky1]

Considering this it's really weird to see vegans live longer lives on average.
I think there's reasonable suspicion to think it might have something to do with the average vegans healthy lifestyle in contrast to the average meat-eater.

considering veganism is coined in 1944 (75 years ago) its not actually got to a stage of proving 'live longer' as the average age of any human diet is higher than vegan age.

by the way there are some people that smoke all their lives and live until 100+ .. but that does not mean on average smoking makes you live longer, obviously

what you also find out is things like people who want a 'healthy lifestyle' usually ensure they go to have their regular doctor checkups and they examine their body more often. nothing to do with diet but just general awareness of health. where as some people who dont care about health just avoid the doctors as its inconvenient.
thus without even discussing what type of food goes into someones mouth. stats would show the health conscious people would show as having their doctor find cancers earlier than someone not health conscious.. simply because the stats sway to the health conscious people simply turning up for health checkups. emphasis nothing to do with diet

There's this
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/vegan-meat-life-expectancy-eggs-dairy-research-a7168036.html

There's this. It shows lower mortality rates with those taking plant protein vs animal protein. But it's about substituting animal protein for plant protein. I wonder how easy it is for vegans to intake the same amount of plant protein that we do by eating meat. Would you take enough naturally?

if i ait one halfpound burger vs a 1KG bag of sprouts.. .. i certainly know which one would give me 'wind' more

anyway im digressing off the society topic of vegans living care free alongside farm animals that have been set free to be wild again. and turning into a dietry guide
so lets talk about the society of only vegans instead of the diet

[guigui371]

There's this
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/vegan-meat-life-expectancy-eggs-dairy-research-a7168036.html

There's this. It shows lower mortality rates with those taking plant protein vs animal protein. But it's about substituting animal protein for plant protein. I wonder how easy it is for vegans to intake the same amount of plant protein that we do by eating meat. Would you take enough naturally?

I recall reading that on average, a bigger % of vegan are consuming more protein that the quantity they needed compared to meat eater. (ie, meat eater population have a higher % of protein deficiency in the US population)

But this statistic is Bias because, non Vegan (ie meat eater) includes more low socio-economics layers (poor people) that can't afford to eat meat in sufficient quantity (think, people just having a Ramen noodle meal in a cup.., $3 pizza ... people skipping a meal, ).
Meanwhile Vegans are relatively more wealthy people that usually take time to cook and research their meal.  

I can't find  the source, so pardon my approximation.

[styca]

I wonder how easy it is for vegans to intake the same amount of plant protein that we do by eating meat. Would you take enough naturally?

This is quite comprehensive, might be worth a read. It references about 20 different studies.

[franky1]

There's this
https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/health-news/vegan-meat-life-expectancy-eggs-dairy-research-a7168036.html

There's this. It shows lower mortality rates with those taking plant protein vs animal protein. But it's about substituting animal protein for plant protein. I wonder how easy it is for vegans to intake the same amount of plant protein that we do by eating meat. Would you take enough naturally?

I recall reading that on average, a bigger % of vegan are consuming more protein that the quantity they needed compared to meat eater. (ie, meat eater population have a higher % of protein deficiency in the US population)

But this statistic is Bias because, non Vegan (ie meat eater) includes more low socio-economics layers (poor people) that can't afford to eat meat in sufficient quantity (think, people just having a Ramen noodle meal in a cup.., $3 pizza ... people skipping a meal, ).
Meanwhile Vegans are relatively more wealthy people that usually take time to cook and research their meal.  

I can't find  the source, so pardon my approximation.

Spam tinned 'meat' is not Ham
Spam is 7g protien per 100gram weight
ham is 21g protien per 100gram weight

thus poor people buying  spam would be 3x less protien nutrient even if they sliced the same 100g of spam as someone else slicing 100g of ham

and to the same respect
sprouts aint tofu
sprouts =3g
tofu=8g
thus same near 3x diffrence

[styca]

non Vegan (ie meat eater) includes more low socio-economics layers (poor people) that can't afford to eat meat in sufficient quantity (think, people just having a Ramen noodle meal in a cup.., $3 pizza ... people skipping a meal, ).
Meanwhile Vegans are relatively more wealthy people that usually take time to cook and research their meal.  

I can't find  the source, so pardon my approximation.

Yes, and this could potentially skew the 'vegans are healthier' thing as well, because poor health is associated with lower socio-economic strata.
I do think vegans are healthier, but health is a complex thing with many inter-related factors.

[Spendulus]

....
Spam tinned 'meat' is not Ham
Spam is 7g protien per 100gram weight
ham is 21g protien per 100gram weight

thus poor people buying  spam would be 3x less protien nutrient even if they sliced the same 100g of spam as someone else slicing 100g of ham
...

Any computer hacker could have told you that spam wasn't very nutritious.

[franky1]

Any computer hacker could have told you that spam wasn't very nutritious.

computer hackers dont eat spam. they hack pizza delivery websites to get free pizza
..still not nutritious

[styca]

Any computer hacker could have told you that spam wasn't very nutritious.

computer hackers dont eat spam. they hack pizza delivery websites to get free pizza
..still not nutritious

I'm sure there's a joke to be had here about denial of service, but I can't find it.

[Spendulus]

Any computer hacker could have told you that spam wasn't very nutritious.

computer hackers dont eat spam. they hack pizza delivery websites to get free pizza
..still not nutritious

I'm sure there's a joke to be had here about denial of service, but I can't find it.

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong. Now for an important question.

Can a vegan eat animal crackers?

[franky1]

Any computer hacker could have told you that spam wasn't very nutritious.

computer hackers dont eat spam. they hack pizza delivery websites to get free pizza
..still not nutritious

I'm sure there's a joke to be had here about denial of service, but I can't find it.

hacker: [phones pizza place] 'wheres my pizza'
pizza place: we dont know the delivery guy left on foot, then ransomeware

[franky1]

Any computer hacker could have told you that spam wasn't very nutritious.

computer hackers dont eat spam. they hack pizza delivery websites to get free pizza
..still not nutritious

I'm sure there's a joke to be had here about denial of service, but I can't find it.

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong. Now for an important question.

Can a vegan eat animal crackers?

yes. but they cant eat 'cheese and hackers'

[styca]

Now for an important question.

Can a vegan eat animal crackers?

No.

We can however eat honey - it's just that we need signed consent from every bee involved in the process. This tends to take such a long time that mostly we just don't bother and say we can't eat it.

[franky1]

We can however eat honey - it's just that we need signed consent from every bee involved in the process. This tends to take such a long time that mostly we just don't bother and say we can't eat it.

but vegans with their fake sympathy cries still do what they do, yet i never see any signed consent to use crocodile tears

[styca]

We can however eat honey - it's just that we need signed consent from every bee involved in the process. This tends to take such a long time that mostly we just don't bother and say we can't eat it.

but vegans with their fake sympathy cries still do what they do, yet i never see any signed consent to use crocodile tears

I did try to get signed consent from a crocodile once. Never again. Now I have to use my other arm.

What crocodile tears?

[franky1]

What crocodile tears?

you know the kind. when you find out someone dies and suddenly everyone acts like it happened to their best friend even though they had nothing to do with that person. just to try and fame up their life like they are trendy or special by being in some group

i still of the mindset that vegetarians are the true non meat eaters and vegans are just the buzzword trend lovers of instagram and twitter. who are radicals and oversell their opinions without doing research, and cry on command without real provocation

[BADecker]

Oh, yuk. But if it works, even I might give it a try. Yuk. The details and pics at the site are quite extensive... worth reading at least.


Sisters claim swapping their vegan lifestyle for a RAW MEAT diet has cured their autoimmune disease - and feast on uncooked organs, suet and eggs every day

Ashley Armstrong, 26, and Sarah Armstrong, 23, from Urbana in Central Illinois, tried diets ranging from veganism to macro-based eating to a traditional low fat diet in the hopes of easing the crippling autoimmune issues they've suffered since their teens.

The siblings, who now feast on a mostly raw meat diet of uncooked organs, fat and eggs, say that since becoming 'raw carnivores' in June this year, they've been able to cure their chronic symptoms of constipation, bloating, depression, fatigue, circulatory problems and Raynaud's syndrome.

The pair pride themselves on eating the 'whole dang animal - nose to tail' with no vegetables in sight.

Ashley and Sarah, who boast almost 12,000 followers on Instagram with the handle @strong.sistas, are educating others about the benefits of a raw diet, and are even co-authoring a cookbook of carnivore-inspired recipes which will be published early next year.

[franky1]

raw ... uncooked
raw carnivores
no vegetables.
raw diet

but then

cookbook

anyone see the problem with this


so whats the recipies..
oxtongue marinated in a fridge with a sauce made of blood and saliva?
beef liver in a nice lamb seaman soup

[styca]

What crocodile tears?

you know the kind. when you find out someone dies and suddenly everyone acts like it happened to their best friend even though they had nothing to do with that person. just to try and fame up their life like they are trendy or special by being in some group

i still of the mindset that vegetarians are the true non meat eaters and vegans are just the buzzword trend lovers of instagram and twitter. who are radicals and oversell their opinions without doing research, and cry on command without real provocation

Yes I do know the kind, and yes there are some vegans like that. I can't stand people like that. Attention-seeking idiots.

I used to be vegetarian, it was understanding what happens in the egg industry that made me go further. If you are vegetarian because you don't want animals to be killed, vegan is a natural extension where you dont want any mistreatment of animals at all. But I'm not pushing anyone. As I've said before, we have evolved to eat meat. Veganism is in this sense unnatural. To each his own.

We don't all cry on command or push our opinions without doing research. Some of us walk quietly amongst you, indistinguishable from meat-eating people. Just as I had been doing for a couple of years on this forum before posting in this thread. You only see the loud ones, not the quiet ones.