Can something like WeEconomy work in today's world ?!

[WalletPlus]

Hello Bitcoiners, I hope you have a great day, and making solid wins.

I was surprised when I read that WeWork wants to start an IPO this year. That is surprising because the company is not making any profits for its investors. This made me think, can something like WeEconomy work. What I mean by WeEconomy:

1. A private decentralized network of people who pay a monthly fee to be part of the network. That fee doesn't need to be big ( i am already paying 50$ monthly to Netflix, Amazon, Spotify, and co. ) and I try to buy bitcoin every month from my monthly savings. (I am a late bloomer about bitcoin, but that is a different story)
2. The complete monthly fees can be redeemed 24/7, meaning if you leave the network you get all your bitcoins back that you put in. Means, we use bitcoin as a reserve (bitcoin standard). The idea is that the network will at some time start to make more money than the amount that is put in every month.
3. The size of the group should be kept small for now.
4. Own semi-stable coin, a coin that is backed by all the assets that the network gains. Why semi-stable? Our goal is to keep the value of our stable coin around $1, but it can grow if our assets grow but it can fall too but never less than what we have in our core reserves. And we can make a poll where everyone in the network can vote on the decisions of printing money or burn it.

Now, let us talk about the shift that happened and few people know about it.

Labor income vs capital income

Time to time, shifts in our society happen that change the face of our world. From the Agricultural revolution to the Industrial Revolution to the Digital Revolution and all the between, with every circle more wealth has been created, and now we have a Renaissance of the economy. But the most important point is that in today's world Capital income produces more wealth than labor income. But this is only true for the super-rich sadly, but this is not the end. We, like a group, can better and faster grow our money.

This is a very basic example:

Look at this https://dcabtc.com/?sd=2018-11-09&sda=1_year&f=monthly&d=1_year&ac=50000000&c=true

You will see if we put $500k monthly, in one year we would have profits for $3 million, those $3 million can be used as credits, own uses, or grow the business even more. This is a simple example, but it just proves my point that together we can grow money faster, the next link shows how much money you would make alone

https://dcabtc.com/?sd=2018-11-09&sda=1_year&f=monthly&d=1_year&ac=2500&c=true

The Percent Change is the same at 51% but you with your 100$ profit can do nothing, but we with $3 million can grow our capital even faster and make more money babies.

"To turn $100 into $110 is work. To turn 100 million into $110 million is inevitable."

The goal of this network would be the grow till in reach a point of self-sustainable (a good read for this: https://www.jstor.org/stable/2227401?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents).

I am going to post more content in a couple of days about this on this thread.

I would love to get some feedback about this because I am developing this platform right now and will release the beta soon (hope so...). If you are interested in such a project, please don't hesitate to contact me.

[CryptoBry]

I was surprised when I read that WeWork wants to start an IPO this year. That is surprising because the company is not making any profits for its investors. This made me think, can something like WeEconomy work. What I mean by WeEconomy:

1. A private decentralized network of people who pay a monthly fee to be part of the network. That fee doesn't need to be big ( i am already paying 50$ monthly to Netflix, Amazon, Spotify, and co. ) and I try to buy bitcoin every month from my monthly savings. (I am a late bloomer about bitcoin, but that is a different story)
2. The complete monthly fees can be redeemed 24/7, meaning if you leave the network you get all your bitcoins back that you put in. Means, we use bitcoin as a reserve (bitcoin standard). The idea is that the network will at some time start to make more money than the amount that is put in every month.
3. The size of the group should be kept small for now.
4. Own semi-stable coin, a coin that is backed by all the assets that the network gains. Why semi-stable? Our goal is to keep the value of our stable coin around $1, but it can grow if our assets grow but it can fall too but never less than what we have in our core reserves. And we can make a poll where everyone in the network can vote on the decisions of printing money or burn it.

WeWork is a big scam, similar to the one orchestrated by Elizabeth Holmes with her failed Theranos company. WeWork was under the helm of another eccentric entrepreneur named Adam Neumann and his decision to go ahead with the IPO lead to the exposure of the company's real finances and situation.

Now, talking about what you are suggesting here. That can actually work and it is a nice concept, similar to the idea of cooperativism where one person can contribute a little resulting into an avalanche of assets and resources later all starting from a trickle. However, there is one very important component that this system must have: there should be a leader or a group of leaders that must and should be trusted, otherwise nothing will really come out of this idea. This is what is happening with many cooperatives all over the world, when the leadership has integrity, capacity and the vision of what they future they want to build then there is no reason success is not coming their way. Of all, all members with the right mindset are all critical part of the entire ecosystem or the project.

[Kprawn]

Bitcoin investments are not measured in Fiat currency, like other investments. It is settled in a physical asset, so you get the amount of bitcoins

that you bought and not the amount of money that you invested. This will only work, if the investors would agree to claim their fiat investment

amount and not the actual value of the bitcoins that they bought. Who would do this, because other investments gives you the actual value of the

coins you bought. So you will get less fiat, if the price goes to the Moon.    Do I understand the concept correctly? 

[hello_good_sir]

I was surprised when I read that WeWork wants to start an IPO this year. That is surprising because the company is not making any profits for its investors. This made me think, can something like WeEconomy work. What I mean by WeEconomy:

This start was very surprising, every time I hear about WeWork, I get shivers down my shine. The entire company and how everything was dealt with was a shit-show, although with the new CEO and everything, maybe they will stop bleeding investor funds.

1. A private decentralized network of people who pay a monthly fee to be part of the network. That fee doesn't need to be big ( i am already paying 50$ monthly to Netflix, Amazon, Spotify, and co. ) and I try to buy bitcoin every month from my monthly savings. (I am a late bloomer about bitcoin, but that is a different story)

Not sure if a subscription-based model is the best here, the only reason why services like these ones, and Adobe where really able to provide subscription services was because they can offer constant support and try and keep you as customers - not sure if there needs to be a fee here, to be honest, feels like the company would just be milking funds...

2. The complete monthly fees can be redeemed 24/7, meaning if you leave the network you get all your bitcoins back that you put in. Means, we use bitcoin as a reserve (bitcoin standard). The idea is that the network will at some time start to make more money than the amount that is put in every month.

Okay. This is a lot fairer, I like it a lot better now.

3. The size of the group should be kept small for now.

Okay.

4. Own semi-stable coin, a coin that is backed by all the assets that the network gains. Why semi-stable? Our goal is to keep the value of our stable coin around $1, but it can grow if our assets grow but it can fall too but never less than what we have in our core reserves. And we can make a poll where everyone in the network can vote on the decisions of printing money or burn it.

I don't think this would work that well - it's not really backed to anything, and there is really no use for a "semi-stable" coin, especially when there are stablecoins out there. It's an interesting idea, but it lacks an actual use case.

[WalletPlus]

Bitcoin investments are not measured in Fiat currency, like other investments. It is settled in a physical asset, so you get the amount of bitcoins

that you bought and not the amount of money that you invested. This will only work, if the investors would agree to claim their fiat investment

amount and not the actual value of the bitcoins that they bought. Who would do this, because other investments gives you the actual value of the

coins you bought. So you will get less fiat, if the price goes to the Moon.    Do I understand the concept correctly? 

If the price goes to the Moon, even better for the network, that means more capital, let's take the example above. Let's say we put $500k worth bitcoin in the network, and tomorrow bitcoin goes to the moon and suddenly our network goes from $500k to $1 million, your piece of the pie will still be the same. But our goal of the network is just collect more capital and have big reserves, (reserves that are used when the market goes down, and buying up good positions) to reach the point of self-sustainability.

Let's say you want to leave the network and you want your bitcoins back, ok then instead of $1 million (worth of btc) the network would have $999950 w/btc, now because there is now one place open for someone extern to join the network and take your place in the network, he pays those $25 w/btc and now the network has $999975 w/btc. I have a complete theory that I wrote about this, it is called Circle of wealth creation.

Basically, our network assumes that more people will chip-in, then chip-out, so there will always be enough money in the pool to pay your amount in BTC back.

[hello_good_sir]

If the price goes to the Moon, even better for the network, that means more capital, let's take the example above. Let's say we put $500k worth bitcoin in the network, and tomorrow bitcoin goes to the moon and suddenly our network goes from $500k to $1 million, your piece of the pie will still be the same. But our goal of the network is just collect more capital and have big reserves, (reserves that are used when the market goes down, and buying up good positions) to reach the point of self-sustainability.

Okay, so basically, instead of it being a regular coin, so if it doubled in value, people could take their monthly fees out and just be happy with their profit, these extra funds would be actually kept by the company for hard times, so even if the price dropped to 100k, they are able to supplement the users with their own money from this fund?

That's a lot more interesting and I misunderstood your post a bit - although, what happens if the market goes down before the company has a chance to collect funds through price increases?

Let's say you want to leave the network and you want your bitcoins back, ok then instead of $1 million (worth of btc) the network would have $999950 w/btc, now because there is now one place open for someone extern to join the network and take your place in the network, he pays those $25 w/btc and now the network has $999975 w/btc. I have a complete theory that I wrote about this, it is called Circle of wealth creation.

Basically, our network assumes that more people will chip-in, then chip-out, so there will always be enough money in the pool to pay your amount in BTC back.

Link me! This is actually getting a lot more interesting since I am understanding it a lot more

[beerlover]

I feel like you need to have an incentive that would make people not really be bothered by paying a fee.

It is not going to work unless it is a good one, for example wework doesn't just offer a space for you to work, it offers you to network with other people in your region that is doing similar stuff to yours, it gives a chance to barter your work for others work for example, a designer working in a place like that and a developer working there could get together and designer could design something for the developer whereas developer could develop something for the designer.

WeWork doesn't make any profit because they are constantly growing, that is not a bad type of losing money, they are actually making more revenue every year but they are spending even more every year for new places which is the trouble, that is not really as same as just a bad business losing money so lets not put them down that quickly.

[avikz]

You will see if we put $500k monthly, in one year we would have profits for $3 million, those $3 million can be used as credits, own uses, or grow the business even more. This is a simple example, but it just proves my point that together we can grow money faster, the next link shows how much money you would make alone

So I understand that members of the network will pay a monthly fees to create a pool of funds which can be used for credits and earn interest income! That's exactly how cooperative credit societies work in my country. Especially in those areas where banking service has not yet reached! Apart from credit, what other businesses you are proposing to make profit for the group?

I understand the investment decision will be made through voting system but who will control the collected funds? 

[WalletPlus]

Okay, so basically, instead of it being a regular coin, so if it doubled in value, people could take their monthly fees out and just be happy with their profit, these extra funds would be actually kept by the company for hard times, so even if the price dropped to 100k, they are able to supplement the users with their own money from this fund?

Yes.

That's a lot more interesting and I misunderstood your post a bit - although, what happens if the market goes down before the company has a chance to collect funds through price increases?

This is why is important to have some of the funds in cash, and buying those dips, meaning those dips are an opportunity for profits. The only real problem for this network is when more than 50% of people leave in one day. But I don't think that is something that should worry us at the beginning of funding this network.

Again your piece of the pie is always the same, HOLDING is what makes profits in the market or buying the dip, with more capital we can set bigger and better buy/sell positions in the long term.

[WalletPlus]

I feel like you need to have an incentive that would make people not really be bothered by paying a fee.

It is not going to work unless it is a good one, for example wework doesn't just offer a space for you to work, it offers you to network with other people in your region that is doing similar stuff to yours, it gives a chance to barter your work for others work for example, a designer working in a place like that and a developer working there could get together and designer could design something for the developer whereas developer could develop something for the designer.

WeWork doesn't make any profit because they are constantly growing, that is not a bad type of losing money, they are actually making more revenue every year but they are spending even more every year for new places which is the trouble, that is not really as same as just a bad business losing money so lets not put them down that quickly.

A lot of people don't know that WeWorks has a $60 billion worth in real estate. I thinking they are betting that those real estates will grow in value in the next 10 - 20 years. Take Berlin like an example, from 2011 to today real estate grow for 100%.

[WalletPlus]

You will see if we put $500k monthly, in one year we would have profits for $3 million, those $3 million can be used as credits, own uses, or grow the business even more. This is a simple example, but it just proves my point that together we can grow money faster, the next link shows how much money you would make alone

So I understand that members of the network will pay a monthly fees to create a pool of funds which can be used for credits and earn interest income! That's exactly how cooperative credit societies work in my country. Especially in those areas where banking service has not yet reached! Apart from credit, what other businesses you are proposing to make profit for the group?

I understand the investment decision will be made through voting system but who will control the collected funds?  

I am writing an Ethereum contract, which will take care of the membership process.  Funds are stored on the decentralized network, which takes care of the balance sheet. Voting is always so problematic because then you start to have groups inside the network who wants to control others in the network. Maybe more like Kick Starter or something in that.

But again the network will build new features and change with time.

[Theb]

1. A private decentralized network of people who pay a monthly fee to be part of the network. That fee doesn't need to be big ( i am already paying 50$ monthly to Netflix, Amazon, Spotify, and co. ) and I try to buy bitcoin every month from my monthly savings. (I am a late bloomer about bitcoin, but that is a different story)
2. The complete monthly fees can be redeemed 24/7, meaning if you leave the network you get all your bitcoins back that you put in. Means, we use bitcoin as a reserve (bitcoin standard). The idea is that the network will at some time start to make more money than the amount that is put in every month.
3. The size of the group should be kept small for now.

You are literally talking about how mutual funds or UITFs work where investors pool their money in and a portfolio manager will take care of the rest. However I don't think this will work well in the type of industry we have. Mutual Funds/UITFs works well with investors since the markets they are usually in (stocks, money market) are not too volatile and the ones taking care of it (portfolio managers) aren't risking their money for a much more higher outcome. The portfolio managers really don't have any option when it comes to the crypto market since almost everyday they are susceptible to change and I don't think the traditional investors can stomach such change for a traditional type of investment.

[WalletPlus]

1. A private decentralized network of people who pay a monthly fee to be part of the network. That fee doesn't need to be big ( i am already paying 50$ monthly to Netflix, Amazon, Spotify, and co. ) and I try to buy bitcoin every month from my monthly savings. (I am a late bloomer about bitcoin, but that is a different story)
2. The complete monthly fees can be redeemed 24/7, meaning if you leave the network you get all your bitcoins back that you put in. Means, we use bitcoin as a reserve (bitcoin standard). The idea is that the network will at some time start to make more money than the amount that is put in every month.
3. The size of the group should be kept small for now.

You are literally talking about how mutual funds or UITFs work where investors pool their money in and a portfolio manager will take care of the rest. However I don't think this will work well in the type of industry we have. Mutual Funds/UITFs works well with investors since the markets they are usually in (stocks, money market) are not too volatile and the ones taking care of it (portfolio managers) aren't risking their money for a much more higher outcome. The portfolio managers really don't have any option when it comes to the crypto market since almost everyday they are susceptible to change and I don't think the traditional investors can stomach such change for a traditional type of investment.

Yeah, you can call everything mutual funds or UITFs, where people put the money in one pot. But my goal with my project is different, I am talking about an economy, where we have fluid capital instead of static capital. Blockchain and cryptocurrency can better manage risks, everything about the economy is risk management. You can make a ton of money with the only sell/buying bitcoin. The network can have many features because is programmable money, and with every feature risk management of capital can be done more efficiently. I am just saying you can do more stuff with group of people than alone. And it would be a challenge to see how fast can a group of people (network) become financial free with this type of a system.

[hello_good_sir]

This is why is important to have some of the funds in cash, and buying those dips, meaning those dips are an opportunity for profits. The only real problem for this network is when more than 50% of people leave in one day. But I don't think that is something that should worry us at the beginning of funding this network.

Again your piece of the pie is always the same, HOLDING is what makes profits in the market or buying the dip, with more capital we can set bigger and better buy/sell positions in the long term.

I understand now, so it just looks like this is actually very viable, especially if the owners/administrators of the network was smart enough to do this and keep enough cash and money on hand, maybe a certain percentage of the monthly fee you put in should be not added to the network, and sent to a wallet to cover the dips of the market?

I don't think more than 50% of the network would exit, you can always put a limit, for example, only 10 percent of the network is able to leave in a day, so this will keep you and your investors protected.

[WalletPlus]

I understand now, so it just looks like this is actually very viable, especially if the owners/administrators of the network was smart enough to do this and keep enough cash and money on hand, maybe a certain percentage of the monthly fee you put in should be not added to the network, and sent to a wallet to cover the dips of the market?

I don't think more than 50% of the network would exit, you can always put a limit, for example, only 10 percent of the network is able to leave in a day, so this will keep you and your investors protected.

Yes, I would agree with you, I mean look what the bitcoin whales are doing to the market, they just come in and can basically move the hole market, make their cut, The millennials are moving more to neo-banking, now is time to build a trustworthy brand and re-innovate that hole sector and bring more people into crypto and show them that cryptocurrencies are just more efficient and better for the end-consumer.

[Mometaskers]

What are the incentives for people to contribute to this network? Would it be paying dividends and stuff and how is money for those benefits going to be earned.

Also the part where people can just take out their money, there might actually be a "bankrun" if the coin used suddenly experience a rally. Unless of course again, there is an incentive for them to keep the money in that would outweigh the gain from selling their coin.

Still an interesting idea, I'd like to sew how this develops.

[shield132]

Of course WeEconomy is an amazing idea, there is no doubt but the problem are people. The network of people must be full with honest and smart people. That's where the online WeEconomy fails sadly. From your post as far as I understood that profit will be used for gaining even more profit by creating some business and etc or if you only mean growing number of capital via people and doing nothing more, same and same again, then I don't think that alone is good because it means say no to best possible profit and yes to good profit.
Who collects funds here? Whom do we trust? Please can you explain this a little bit?

[WalletPlus]

What are the incentives for people to contribute to this network? Would it be paying dividends and stuff and how is money for those benefits going to be earned.

Also the part where people can just take out their money, there might actually be a "bankrun" if the coin used suddenly experience a rally. Unless of course again, there is an incentive for them to keep the money in that would outweigh the gain from selling their coin.

Still an interesting idea, I'd like to sew how this develops.

Incentives:
1. Better financial services can be offered on such a network.
2. HODLers would get great rewards ( think about it, about bitcoin, it took 10 years to become a 150 billion market )
3. Fluid capital, we can program our money, be quicker and easier for the people in the network. Let's take an example and be optimistic: The network let's say becomes a 4 billion worth, like Thether. And someone from the network wants to buy a home, he can get directly the money from the network, instead of going to the bank and try to get a loan of $400k, they can get credits (our stable coin) to finance that purchase.
4. Total transparency with our members.

I don't think a bankrun would happen in the first months of the network if the network makes money for the network, no one would leave it, because you can see everything transparent.

[WalletPlus]

Of course WeEconomy is an amazing idea, there is no doubt but the problem are people. The network of people must be full with honest and smart people. That's where the online WeEconomy fails sadly. From your post as far as I understood that profit will be used for gaining even more profit by creating some business and etc or if you only mean growing number of capital via people and doing nothing more, same and same again, then I don't think that alone is good because it means say no to best possible profit and yes to good profit.
Who collects funds here? Whom do we trust? Please can you explain this a little bit?

Who collects funds here? it can be collected from a program that runs on a blockchain (smart contracts), I am programming a membership smart contract.
Whom do we trust? People inside the network, that no one is Bullshiting. We can have different fonds, for different markets, you can see every project that we, like the network, support.

I am busy with programming the app and the API for the project. I am busy with that right now, I would love to elaborate on this later.

[darkangel11]

1. A private decentralized network of people who pay a monthly fee to be part of the network. That fee doesn't need to be big ( i am already paying 50$ monthly to Netflix, Amazon, Spotify, and co. ) and I try to buy bitcoin every month from my monthly savings. (I am a late bloomer about bitcoin, but that is a different story)

Think about the money you'd have made had you invested 50$ a month in Bitcoin in the last few years. People who subscribe to a lot of things and pay a lot of fees usually don't make money. I don't need any of that. I don't subscribe to Amazon, Netflix, or anything else. I only pay my basic utility bills and Internet and spend what I can spare on Bitcoin. I'm trying to make money not spend them on subscriptions.

If only people could see how much they're spending on stupid things like a new version of a phone or a new car when their old one works perfectly fine.

Basically, our network assumes that more people will chip-in, then chip-out, so there will always be enough money in the pool to pay your amount in BTC back.

So it's like a social security fund. They also expect more people will chip in and when it changes they ask government for help.