Brave Browser - Why it doesn't care about your privacy

[bitmover]

Brave Browser slogan is: You are not a product. It is a browser with an built-in adblock that was supposed to pay you for watching ads.

Their idea is amazing. Pay for users to watch ads. This has a great potential, and certainly can impact the whole Google/facebook business model (based on their ads).

The problem is: they are demanding KYC. You are the product, after all.

First they said that only publishers would be affected by KYC, and users who just navigate wouldn't be force to do any KYC.
This is highly questionable, however we can understand: publishers are company making money, so they could do KYC to comply with their law obligations and this could even, somehow, protect customers. I didn't like, but I can understand.

Then, few days ago Brave decided to start paying for users to browse the web using their browser. I used it for 5 days and received 0.1 BAT (0,03 USD). The amount of money is ridiculous, but well, it is free.. So i tried to withdrawal it. Look at the image I faced:

So now brave is requiring KYC for everyone. If you don't do KYC, no coins for you.

Even the money I sent to my wallet is now locked until complying with KYC? this is crazy.

Weren't they supposed to protect our privacy? Wasn't I going to receive coins for watching ads, while protecting my privacy??
How can sending documents will my privacy be protect? So the documents are the product, not me?

I was disappointed with BAT/Brave, because it  was a project with so much potential.

I hope someone else, maybe firefox, could just implement their business model paying users with BTC without kyc.

[Mashfiqun]

I use Brave from the start of the project and even become a publisher. I have a verified Uphold wallet connected to my account. I didn't get paid as long as it was unverified. They suspect about scamming and manipulating BAT rewards and forces to get a verified Uphold account. I didn't want to do the KYC but had to because the amount of money was fairly good. Uphold handles all the KYC things. I don't know if I've become a product or not, I don't know how they're interpreting the product thingy, I think there's not much to look here. It is a browser after all. It blocks ads so that I am not used as a product. But you have the right to not join the rewards program. It's in the users hands now. 

[Jet Cash]

Well  I'm a publisher, so I don't care about KYC. I think the issue is about the withdrawal, and that is subject to various government regs, You can send BAT to me, and I don't think you need KYC to do that. Part of the Brave concept is to allow users to reward content producers, and the Fit to Talk project has picked up some BAT from this. It also gets a small contribution whenever someone uses the link on Fit to Talk to download the browser. As you can see, this allows users of a service to help the provider to maintain the service at no cost to the user.

[TGD]

I'm against KYC too. I think that they are using the KYC to verify the legitimacy of the account. I used the brave competitor project and they do the same. There referral program can be abused if they don't apply that. I'm not supporting them anyway because I have bat token that still stock on my brave wallet because of this KYC. I hope that they come up some solution for this KYC requirements.

[GSpgh]

I hope someone else, maybe firefox, could just implement their business model paying users with BTC without kyc.

I don't think we need that at all. I don't mind being not paid for browsing the internet. If I want to make money there are better ways to do it. Paying for browsing brings unnecessary conflicts of interest, abuse etc.

All I want is software that let's me see nicely rendered HTML and doesn't spy on me.

[rosezionjohn]

Brave still value users privacy when browsing the internet but it's a different story when they want to profit from it. It's either they comply or they get shutdown. If Firefox were to implement a similar reward program, they will be forced to follow the regulations as well.

You want your privacy? Do not get paid.

Even the money I sent to my wallet is now locked until complying with KYC? this is crazy.

This is not fair. They should not let anyone deposit in the first place if users can't withdraw without completing KYC.

[virasog]

I'm against KYC too. I think that they are using the KYC to verify the legitimacy of the account. I used the brave competitor project and they do the same. There referral program can be abused if they don't apply that. I'm not supporting them anyway because I have bat token that still stock on my brave wallet because of this KYC. I hope that they come up some solution for this KYC requirements.

If the only reason for brave browser to implement KYC is to avoid the breach of their referral program, then they should stop the referrals rewards and people can only earn tokens for browsing. This KYC implementation is hurting the Brave popularity and many people have stopped using brave just because of this KYC.

[bitmover]

You can send BAT to me, and I don't think you need KYC to do that.

I can send BAT to you if I buy that BAT.

The bat I "receive" from browsing is locked until I do KYC. I cannot withdrawal it, cannot trade it for btc or whatever.

I cannot donate that BAT to you, but to your website.

This is slightly different.

I think BAT project and the whole concept is amazing and disruptive, but poorly executed.

You can confirm that on the pop up that opens in your browser (and the image up there in the OP)

Benefits of verifying
-Withdraw BAT that you earn from viewing privacy-respect ads

The ads are privacy respecting, but not the browser or the token... the browser will have my ID!

[smyslov]

I'm against KYC too. I think that they are using the KYC to verify the legitimacy of the account. I used the brave competitor project and they do the same. There referral program can be abused if they don't apply that. I'm not supporting them anyway because I have bat token that still stock on my brave wallet because of this KYC. I hope that they come up some solution for this KYC requirements.

If the only reason for brave browser to implement KYC is to avoid the breach of their referral program, then they should stop the referrals rewards and people can only earn tokens for browsing. This KYC implementation is hurting the Brave popularity and many people have stopped using brave just because of this KYC.

I agree this is one of the reason I haven't done KYC in Bat,  I stopped doing KYC to any project even to the point of losing my shares of the coins and I'm not afraid to lose my coins here also, their promotion is protecting our data, but they cannot protect us from themselves
they should do something on this or they will lose a share of the market, which they gained when they are starting out.

[JeromeTash]

This is very funny. At first, they marketed themselves as a browser that would never spy on you or gather your details and monetize them like Google Chrome but now they are doing exactly the same crap.

It would have been nice if they stuck to one plan from the very being but now seeing this kind of hypocrisy makes me avoid them and totally  stick to my Firefox.

[ABCbits]

Additionally, Firefox have far better privacy configuration by default since Firefox 70, so i don't see any more reason to recommend Brave Browser for technology illiterate or lazy users.
Nowadays i only use Brave Browser if i need to visit website which doesn't work properly on Firefox. 

I hope someone else, maybe firefox, could just implement their business model paying users with BTC without kyc.

If firefox (or any browser developer/publisher) actually care about praivacy, they wouldn't make business model which reward their user.
There's no way to avoid some kind of data collection if they're gonna to reward their user.

[Theb]

I think you have gone overboard when it comes to KYC requirements for Brave, of course they will require KYC as it involves payment of their own cryptocurrency. I even doubt that Brave Software, Inc. is the one pushing for a KYC requirements for their payouts to be enabled and even if they do I totally understand its to prevent abuses when it comes to paying from automated bots that can browse and view ads for you and having multiple computers to maximize your earnings somehow a KYC requirement can minimize these things.

[o_e_l_e_o]

The bottom line is Brave is an ad company. It has a business partnership with advertisers and it makes money from selling ads. Their bottom line is always going to be more important than the privacy of their users, and therefore they will always make decisions which are not in their users' best interests.

Brave strips websites of their ads and injects their own instead. Why are people comfortable giving a 3rd party so much control over what they see or what is injected in to their browser? Brave whitelists trackers from the worst tracking sites out there, including Facebook. They are now demanding KYC from publishers and users alike.

If you want to use Brave because you like it or you want to earn BAT, that's completely your decision, but don't be fooled in to thinking it is some amazing privacy browser like they market themselves to be. They are better than Chrome, sure, but that's not saying much.

Nowadays i only use Brave Browser if i need to visit website which doesn't work properly on Firefox.

I have an unhardened version of Firefox which I use on the occasion that a website is broken by my Firefox hardening/tweaks/extensions/etc. You can install Firefox twice on the same machine, or you can download the beta/nightly/developer version as a second "clean" install instead.

[ptrk]

-- snip --
The problem is: they are demanding KYC. You are the product, after all.
-- snip --

I guess you misunderstood. Brave itself does not require a KYC. It is only required when you want to withdraw your BAT to Uphold, a third-party exchange, where you can exchange your BAT for fiat..

They explicitly deal with the topic.
https://support.brave.com/hc/en-us/articles/360032158891-What-is-KYC-

By default, no KYC verification is required to enable and use Brave Rewards. For example, users can enable Brave Ads and earn BAT without KYC verification. They can also enjoy in-platform features, such as BAT tipping, without ever having to KYC.

Please note that users do not verify with Brave Software Inc. Because Brave does not personally perform KYC verification, we do not process or store any personal information related to the KYC process.

If users choose to link an Uphold exchange account to Brave Rewards (in order to withdraw BAT from of the platform, for example), users will have to complete KYC with Uphold, just like they would with any other legally compliant exchange.

As they write, they are working on further options beyond Uphold. These might not be able to require KYC, e.g. when integrating Shapeshift or Changelly.

We are working to bring other withdrawal options and vendors, apart from Uphold, to Brave Rewards.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Firefox have multi-profile feature, so you don't need to install 2 different version of Firefox on your machine.

I've never used multiple profiles, but I was under the impression that changes to about:config were carried over between profiles? I make a lot of changes/tweaks there that would kind of defeat the purpose of a "clean" version if they were carried over.

But the real problem is few website have lazy developer who only tested their website on Google Chrome (because it has about 80% browser market share), so your idea won't work in this case.

Fair enough. I'd maybe use Ungoogled Chromium in that case - https://github.com/Eloston/ungoogled-chromium.

[Velkro]

Wasn't I going to receive coins for watching ads, while protecting my privacy??
How can sending documents will my privacy be protect? So the documents are the product, not me?

This is really bad for Brave project. I would use it probably, because im blocking ads anyway, while earning some pocket money. Fun concept, but with KYC?
Privacy is value in this world, which people have tendency to throw away without any real reason. They let others to earn money on their privacy, which is big thing to change in future in people minds.
I hope in time it will get better, people will realize that privacy once given away or lost, will never return in their lifetime.

[masulum]

KYC as terms of Uphold, it wouldn't send KYC to Brave. If user wants to withdraw BAT, user can complete KYC to Uphold. If don't think need his rewards, forget it and no need to KYC to continue surfing use Brave.

Btw, Brave currently have own crypto wallet on browser, do you think it will not save? Maybe this wallet will integrated to BAT rewards in the future, but i don't have any information about this at the momment.

Firefox currently offer to sync browser to multiple device, of course they also ask personal data, at least asking our email and name, but sync still optional service. So what different with Brave, KYC just an option to withdraw rewards and hosted by their partner (Uphold), if you think not save to complete KYC, you can skip it.

CMIIW

[julius caesar]

Wasn't I going to receive coins for watching ads, while protecting my privacy??
How can sending documents will my privacy be protect? So the documents are the product, not me?

This is really bad for Brave project. I would use it probably, because im blocking ads anyway, while earning some pocket money. Fun concept, but with KYC?
Privacy is value in this world, which people have tendency to throw away without any real reason. They let others to earn money on their privacy, which is big thing to change in future in people minds.
I hope in time it will get better, people will realize that privacy once given away or lost, will never return in their lifetime.

Perhaps they do it for a purpose, which is to sell our information in exchange for the small reward that they give which is certainly unfair for its user. Sooner lawmakers will keep an eye to them and will bust them if our negative assumption against them is truth. On the other hand, I agree that it's still a good browser to be used in blocking ads which Google Chrome doesn't can't do.

[darkangel11]

According to the law they cannot hold the coins you've sent to them and demand KYC. You have the right to resign from the procedure and demand you coins to be returned.
If they give you trouble ask them to delete your account and tell them you are no longer using their service and demand your funds to e sent back.
It will most likely mean that your profits but whatever was sent will be returned.

I wouldn't go through KYC for 1 USD a month. The money is a joke even without KYC but with it it's just not worth it. There are services that give you $20 if you do full KYC with them. You'd have to use brave for over a year to earn that.

Not saying that your data is worth $20 because it's much more valuable but selling it for much less is stupid.

[bitmover]

I hope someone else, maybe firefox, could just implement their business model paying users with BTC without kyc.

If firefox (or any browser developer/publisher) actually care about praivacy, they wouldn't make business model which reward their user.
There's no way to avoid some kind of data collection if they're gonna to reward their user.

But if you stop rewarding users, their business model (which is genial) is gone.
We are paying to watch ads. We pay with our bandwidth, our privacy data, our time. And there are so many ads out there, which are even running internet experience, but most people doesn't even notice them anymore. Dozens of them in each website.

There is aproblem here. Additionally, there is a huge oligopoly by Google and facebook.

However, BAT business model proposes the opposite: They pay us to watch ads. They are offering us a reason to not watch those ads. So, theoretically, we would be, by using brave: - breaking an oligopoly, maximazing our internet experience, protecting our privacy, reducing bandwidth costs and making free money. That's genial, and it is one of the few projects out there which is really something, imo.

But they are going the wrong way, imo. They are not properly executing the idea.

This idea paying users to watch ads in amazing. But no kyc ffs  lol