I think a high ranking, green trusted, DT2 member tried to scam me this past Thursday, but I don't really have definitive proof.

The Other Member (lets call him TOM,) sent me a PM asking me to connect with him on Telegram, which I did.  The discussion was about a prospective loan client who wanted a loan that TOM was unable to fill.  He asked if I could fill it, and since collateral was offered, I agreed to do so.  TOM started a discussion with the client, and then things got weird.  At some point it struck me that this might be a phishing attempt, but I continued along because I wasn't 100% sure (and I'm curious.)

TOM and the client wanted me to send the bitcoin to TOM's address first, which was to be followed by by the collateral being sent to me.  Then TOM was to forward the loan to the client.  This was a deal breaker for me, there was no way I was going to send first but I tried to appease the client by pointing him to  my lending thread, providing a PGP signed message including the collateral address, and message signed with the address holding the coin.  I even sent dust to the address TOM provided, to prove I had the coin.

About that address; I asked TOM to send me a signed message on the forum with the address to which I was supposed send the bitcoin.  He sent me an address on Telegram, ignoring my requests to send it through the forum and include a signed message.  The request for a signed message was made and ignored three times.  The address had never been used before, and of course no reference to that address was found in a google search.  Shortly after that I backed out.

I have exported the discussions from Telegram, but as you know these could easily be faked or modified which is why I say I don't have definitive proof.  Of course I did not modify them, and I have them stored in a way that may help some day.

Once I started getting uneasy about the scenario it occurred to me that TOM's account might have been hacked, and it was possible the hacker sent me the original PM.  There are no recent password changes on TOM's account, but hackers have been known to sneak into people's accounts, and send PMs to unsuspecting member phishing for a scam.  So I gave TOM the benefit of the doubt.  I sent my own PM to TOM, pretending that I lost his Telegram address, and asked that he resend it.  The next morning I found a reply from TOM confirming the same Telegram address with which I had the discussion the previous night.  This isn't to say that the account has not changed hands, or been hacked, but it does seem to confirm that whoever is in control of TOM's account is the same person I communicated with on Telegram Thursday.

Anyway, I don't want to get into a he-said/they-said drama by claiming some one is a potential scammer if I'm just being sensitive.  And I certainly don't want to ruin someone's reputation if I'm wrong.  But, most critically, If my hunch is right I don't want this guy scamming someone if I could do something about it.  There were a lot of red flags during the discussion, and it behooves us all the recognize them.


1) Don't trust someone's rank.
2) Don't go by trust scores, verify their ratings and reasons behind them.
3) Insist on critical information be sent here on the forum, where you can verify and prove the contact.
4) Insist on signed messages if you are to send first in any trade.
5) Just because someone appears trustworthy here, doesn't mean they will be outside the forum.

Not sure if it would have helped in this case, which sounds fishy I agree, but I believe in general there can be great benefits if the forum also appoints a few "official" escrows (similar to the treasurer position) and that message gets pinned somewhere, and so anyone who wants to do a transaction above a certain threshold amount can point the counterparty to that message, so all these send first / second dramas can be avoided...

In my experience, many people conducting trades are even ambivalent about trusting escrows now, especially when suggested by the counterparty, as the trust system also has a lot of subjectively biased aspects to it...

DireWolfM14

You acted very correctly that you were disciplined and did not enter into a deal on terms that initially seemed favorable.
I hope I don’t hurt anyone, but I think that all your points can be reduced to one thing: do not trust anyone.
Everyone saw many examples (both in life and on the forum) when a person with a potential profit (from scamming) of $ 1000 was honest, but at $ 100k he already spat on principles.


The most effective solution to the issue is its public discussion, but I perfectly understand your unwillingness to enter into a clarification of relations and the attached drama.
There are many different nuances and it is not clear how to do the right thing. It’s possible (if Tom deceives someone) then you will blame yourself (for inaction), or vice versa if a rational explanation of his behavior is found out, then you will blame yourself (for action) for the attempt on his reputation.

This is why I like deals discussed and agreed upon in open transparent threads, not in PMs, and much less on Telegram..
The redundant formalities seen in lending threads of a formal loan request, a formal contract offer, and a formal agreement to the contract by both parties before any coin or collateral are sent, is great protection for both parties because then everyone can see exactly what the contract is and that both parties agreed to it..

I refuse offers to migrate to Telegram from Bitcointalk.. That in itself is a huge red flag according to me..
I have done deals on telegram but only when it started on Telegram in the first place, and have offered to use BTCT escrow from Telegram, not the other way around..

The only time I have ever been scammed in Crypto was on YIM taken there from the Cryptsy trollbox long before I ever registered an account on BTCT, and learned my lesson.. Was like a $30 amazon gift card I was trying to sell for BTC and got ripped off.. Oh well..


I don't think that ALL cases of refusing to accept escrow, or refusal to deal on your legit terms, is proper grounds for a tag, but can be, and are often 100% suspicious..

Your case does sound extremely suspicious like they were trying to scam you, and if you have any reason to believe that they are also targeting others with this possible scam attempt, maybe you should bring awareness of it to the community..
It does sound like a somewhat sophisticated scam attempt aiming at a big target..

Stop right there.

The offer was for 55 LTC as collateral, which calculated to 0.313 BTC.  I never saw proof of the collateral, but since I wasn't willing to send first, I didn't ask for proof.



I was thinking a neutral tag would be appropriate, since I didn't really get scammed.  Although I did send the dust to his address, which is yet to be returned (I offered to pay the Tx fees.)  I have asked TOM to respond here here and address this thread if he wants.  I would rather wait for his response (or lack of) before tagging him.



I must admit I find Telegram to be quite convenient for some discussions.  I've used it to communicate with other members of the forum without issue.

This doesn't match DW's side of the story and I'm more inclined to believe him. According to him (and backed by chat logs) you requested the funds to be sent to you, and that BTC would be sent first, LTC collateral later.

First I want to say that I appreciate you responding, which I feel is a big step for taking accountability.

Second, I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with your assessment of the situation.  I did back up the chat-log, and I'll post links for everyone to see.  At this point I think it's fair for the community to decide.

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Here are my back-ups from Telegram.  I've included a signature for the Zip file.

Zip file with the Telegram conversations:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1VRSaHgAYds2aJhIz-gz89bXCaQDdGU0X

PGP signature for the zip file:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1MX1rfff7C3hyqS8I25j0bf7lXXvLrmZ8

Your message or not?

Or this one:


Is this your address: 1s1yBtD16SurC1x8QAWnQswwnT5oS6fAd

Yes i message him after he message me. That includes Warum (client). If you mean if this msg send by me, no i didnt send any msg like this one.

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I did but i don't see pics or the msgs itself. Can you make a pic of the msg that i say to you to send me the funds first?

EDIT: Sorry for the edit's.