The Problem With Being Apolitical in Bitcoin and Crypto

[samdan777712]

If you even have any money, if you even run some sort of business with crypto or have significant savings in it, then my posts apply. If you have nothing to lose because you don't have anything and want to post salty subcomments, then you know you might be part of the problem.

I'm politically anarchist for what' it's worth. But my point is, crypto and btc users are going to have to use their damn electoral politics, their actual representation and federal representatives. If we raised as much hell as legacy finance, if we spent the lobbying money they spent, if we didn't just lay back and take it, the regulators wouldn't be able to go this unchallenged.

The biggest issue stems from the US using the dollar as a political weapon and having a framework in the treasury department for infringing everyone everywhere's rights with overreaches in the patriot act and AML laws. I saw an article in cointelgraph asking if lawmakers are using AML as an excuse to centralize the industry

*YES THATS WHAT THEY ARE DOING, IN ORDER TO SUPPORT THE TREASURY DEPARTMENT AND TO ENRICH THEIR WALLSTREET INSIDE TRADING FRIENDS*

Had people here read the FATF papers on bitcoin in June, I wouldn't get the smarm. If your LIVELIHOOD depends on crypto, YOU NEED TO READ THAT FATF PAPER. DO IT.

The treasury departments goal is to ultimately make bitcoin not bitcoin. They want to treat it as something that isn't fungible and isn't interchangeable in address, something that isn't peer to peer cash, emphasize on cash. They are struggling to do this,so they are going to be sneaky about it and attack the integrity of the network incrementally with regulations. They are asking bitcoin to be something it literally isn't and cannot be.

In order to do this they will have to go after third party wallet and hardware wallet providers and exchanges. They will have to create a gardened system that taints and tracks bitcoin in such a way, that it is bound to you like a bad case of fleas, ultimately debanking people, ratting them out to creditors. You basically lose all the aspects of bitcoin with NONE of the privacy of an actual real bank account. So as soon as someone Dox's you and your wallet amount that the feds have hoisted upon you, they can just come beat you to death in your house and take it (the hackers, but the feds certainly love to do that to people who wrong them aswell).

The IRS is profoundly unfair towards crypto. Refuses to give it commodity taxation or security taxation, no exemptions, no 475, no QBI. If you trade crypto on coinbase and live in San diego County you have a 50% tax rate FIFTY   PERCENT. In texas is you trade crude oil futures, you have a 27% tax rate.

All you hear from the alphabet bois everyday are threats, threats, and more threats.   Call your representatives and start fighting back. It' s not about bribing and lobbying, it's about the normal democratic process and holding public servants accountable and reminding them they are public servants.


People are just being naive.


I mean sure, if you like Bitcoin staying under 5000 dollars in perpetuity for pure wallstreet speculation. That's always the same attitude "We don't need to use normal politics, we don't need to apply normal finance policy to ourselves, politics doesn't apply, the government can't touch me or us, our haxor friends will develop more elusive things" and on and on and on.... more naive things

Walllstreet and the intelligence agency and treasury are openly threatening, promising, and ensuring a hostile takeover and perversity of the network. Because they are pragmatic, live in and of the world, and are gaming it, and doing as the world does, while you all choose to live in fantasy land in a perpetual libertarian meme. That's not how the real world works.

You're going to have to hold the government accountable just the 98% of the population who aren't libertarian do. If you do nothing, they will stomp it all into the ground. But I guess the libertarian meme culture of Bitcoin and political ignorance makes people think they can get away with being apolitical without consequences and somehow the alphebet bois won't just obliterate all of this into pure uselessness.

Do you really think you're going to compete with the US dollar by being apolitical? Mnuchin made a threat against bitcoin for trying to compete with the US Dollar.

Normies aren't going to use monero. I wish I could wake up tomorrow and everyone would be an outlaw and a monero advocate. IT's not going to happen. It's not.



Government officials have to be held accountabile, and if you are apolitical and apathetic and uninvolved, wallstreet will make the decisions for you, they will buy out and sell out bitcoin wholesale, as they are currently doing. The CME and paper contract watering down is the beginning of that process, where they will suppress price and cripple miners exactly like they have done silver and gold.

America runs this shit. It controls bitcoin, it controls gold, it controls the world.

[Carlton Banks]

nah. relax, you're gonna have a panic attack if you don't breathe inbetween sentences, y'know

[pixie85]

As an Anarchist you are more or less kicked in the ass on every step. Not in Bitcoin but everywhere. You probably don't vote but some people are being chosen against your will and those people make laws that make you obey. You have to pay their taxes file their reports and when one of the alphabet guys marches into your home you have to be compliant or another alphabet guy will beat you up and take your freedom.

Why do you continue to live in such country that doesn't respect your opinion and wants you to pay 50% tax? There are countries who don't tax crypto and give you more freedom. There are countries that don't care about the IRS and FATF.

[Carlton Banks]

Why do you continue to live in such country that doesn't respect your opinion and wants you to pay 50% tax? There are countries who don't tax crypto and give you more freedom. There are countries that don't care about the IRS and FATF.

Right but the FBI have this habit of showing up in other countries to arrest people, and besides, the number of countries that have minimal/zero taxes applying to cryptocurrency who also don't have extradition treaties with the US are probably few or none.

The only way to avoid the US free-range plantation levies is to quit citizenship, which is difficult as they probably won't even allow the process to begin unless you already have a residency permit in a different country. Because being an official citizen is so great, the US in particular makes it incredibly difficult to leave the club. It's nothing like being being a slave at all!!!

[franky1]

The only way to avoid the US free-range plantation levies is to quit citizenship, which is difficult as they probably won't even allow the process to begin unless you already have a residency permit in a different country. Because being an official citizen is so great, the US in particular makes it incredibly difficult to leave the club. It's nothing like being being a slave at all!!!

1. try quitting bing a citizen and your treated like a migrant. enjoy living in the detention centre until they can find which country you are a citizen of to deport you to

2. though there are UN human rights. dont believe you would be protected by a countries civil rights, as again you wont b a citizen

3. yes civil rights do come with responsibilities and many people think they are harsh and some think the 'club rules' are like being a slave. but the truth is having no civil rights is definetly enslavement

4. trying to revoke your citizenship is not showing anyone that you have power instead its you not voting thus you dont get a count thus you become non-important to politics as you have zero sway.

5. but voting. if you can get enough people like minded can change things.

its like bitcoin consensus. (as it was prior to 2017) things dont change unless majority vote for it. no vote=no change.
but you seem to want to advocate that everyone should not vote. thus leaving the only voters that do vote to be the ones who want tyranny(like bitcoin august 2017)
and now we are in a bitcoin situation of one rule making group who wont let anyone take the power over because they no longer count the vote of opposing views. instead they just deport the opposition
sounds like tyranny to me

[CryptoBry]

The only way to avoid the US free-range plantation levies is to quit citizenship, which is difficult as they probably won't even allow the process to begin unless you already have a residency permit in a different country. Because being an official citizen is so great, the US in particular makes it incredibly difficult to leave the club. It's nothing like being being a slave at all!!!

1. try quitting bing a citizen and your treated like a migrant. enjoy living in the detention centre until they can find which country you are a citizen of to deport you to

2. though there are UN human rights. dont believe you would be protected by a countries civil rights, as again you wont b a citizen

3. yes civil rights do come with responsibilities and many people think they are harsh and some think the 'club rules' are like being a slave. but the truth is having no civil rights is definetly enslavement

4. trying to revoke your citizenship is not showing anyone that you have power instead its you not voting thus you dont get a count thus you become non-important to politics as you have zero sway.

5. but voting. if you can get enough people like minded can change things.

its like bitcoin consensus. (as it was prior to 2017) things dont change unless majority vote for it. no vote=no change.
but you seem to want to advocate that everyone should not vote. thus leaving the only voters that do vote to be the ones who want tyranny(like bitcoin august 2017)
and now we are in a bitcoin situation of one rule making group who wont let anyone take the power over because they no longer count the vote of opposing views. instead they just deport the opposition
sounds like tyranny to me

I don't usually quote a long comment on this forum but this time I am making an exemption to this one because I am in full agreement with @franky1. Finally, someone with a more balanced and honest view on things. The problem with people sometimes is that we feel that the whole world is revolving around us and that all people are conspiring against us. While that can be true to some level, it is not all true all the time. People in USA are not in a perfect government but frankly speaking you guys should wonder why there are millions of people around the world will do everything they can just to arrive at the footsteps of USA. As for Bitcoin, can we say now that it is better to be in China than in USA if you are a Bitcoin holder? We could never live in a perfect world that is impossible, though we should continue to do something to make it so. Making complaints, doing nothing or doing stupid things are not the way towards real progress. With centralization, it is happening partly because we are not really doing P2P and there are many reasons why it has never gets off the ground.

[Fundamentals Of]

Can you avoid it? If you can then do it. If you can't then do something. That something of course includes disobeying some unnecessary or oppressive systems in place. If you will be apprehended and thrown into jail then that is one possible price for going against the flow. You should know that. Use crypto at all times as much as possible. That is another form of disobedience. You cannot just be part of the oppressive actors all the time.

[hello_good_sir]

Why do you continue to live in such country that doesn't respect your opinion and wants you to pay 50% tax? There are countries who don't tax crypto and give you more freedom. There are countries that don't care about the IRS and FATF.

Right but the FBI have this habit of showing up in other countries to arrest people, and besides, the number of countries that have minimal/zero taxes applying to cryptocurrency who also don't have extradition treaties with the US are probably few or none.

The only way to avoid the US free-range plantation levies is to quit citizenship, which is difficult as they probably won't even allow the process to begin unless you already have a residency permit in a different country. Because being an official citizen is so great, the US in particular makes it incredibly difficult to leave the club. It's nothing like being being a slave at all!!!

^^

There are many cases of people who are sick of the huge taxes that the US government imposes, so they would go relocate to other countries and they end up being chased by the FBI for not paying taxation - and it's almost impossible to get rid of your citizenship, I think it'll be easier to get a country's passport, which would mean you by default relinquish your US citizenship, but I'm not 100 percent certain if you still need to go through their process.

I'm not an anarchist, but it's pretty obvious people of those nature have it tough and will likely not be living their best versions of their life.

[jseverson]

There are many cases of people who are sick of the huge taxes that the US government imposes, so they would go relocate to other countries and they end up being chased by the FBI for not paying taxation - and it's almost impossible to get rid of your citizenship, I think it'll be easier to get a country's passport, which would mean you by default relinquish your US citizenship, but I'm not 100 percent certain if you still need to go through their process.

Is it really that hard? Maybe we can ask Roger Ver what he did lol. But yeah, I think you can choose to renounce (or to be a dual citizen) once you gain another citizenship.

The FBI shouldn't chase you if you don't owe any taxes or aren't wanted for any crimes though. I think people only need to pay a one-time exit tax nowadays, and that's only if you're making a certain amount.

[franky1]

the reason people hate taxes is not that there are taxes but that the taxes are not seen as helping th public directly

for instance.
the amount of funds that go to pay for military, but the only time people see military within a country border, is during the soldiers vacation. the rest of the time they are abroad helping out defend other countries

the amount of funds that go to pay 'foreign aid' and banks, but while that enriches other countries and the already rich, the local population still see homeless people and people needing foodbanks just to survive

the strange thing is that laws can be made to make banks whole again. such as putting banks into a new policy of how they operate and have the debt written off, rather than paying banks for their own greedy acts that got them in debt

so instead of avoiding being involved and avoiding paying taxes under the illusion that it helps reach the political goals you wish to se in politics.. people should be using their vote. where by if the current political options dont have the philosophy you wish, you help form a new political party that wants to for instance, put the treasury funds into a 'local public funding first' philosophy, and change banking policy to be more consumer protection rather than corporate protection


having the mindset of 'if you dont like the new policy just f**k off' doesnt stop the policy. instead it lets the new policy be created even easier because the opposition has been removed

[alyssa85]

the reason people hate taxes is not that there are taxes but that the taxes are not seen as helping th public directly

for instance.
the amount of funds that go to pay for military, but the only time people see military within a country border, is during the soldiers vacation. the rest of the time they are abroad helping out defend other countries

The solution to that is to vote for Tulsi Gabbard. Then all that money will get directed towards the home front. The US has periodic bouts of isolationism and this is well overdue at the moment.

[stepwilli]

You're an anarchist? Well, you should imagine how a world without government would be. You can use developing countries with a corrupt government that doesn't look out for them as an example, and you will see how those countries are messed up. And as an anarchist you don't participate in votes or anything in politics but you will still obey the laws that are set by those who rule your country, so how does that even make any sense?

And as for Bitcoin exchanges being regulated, I don't see why you should be worrying about that because it's their own decision. If you don't want to make use of an exchange that is regulated then you have decentralized exchanges that are not regulated.

[Carlton Banks]

You're an anarchist? Well, you should imagine how a world without government would be. You can use developing countries with a corrupt government that doesn't look out for them as an example, and you will see how those countries are messed up. And as an anarchist you don't participate in votes or anything in politics but you will still obey the laws that are set by those who rule your country, so how does that even make any sense?

everyone behaves like anarchists most of the time

we all hang out with friends, meet new people in social situations, or go to businessplaces to trade with other people

laws mostly don't drive behavior in those situations (they're only the safety net for when a small minority of people start to act like complete dicks). The vast majority of behavior involves people pretty much making up their own rules for how they're going to treat each other, and they do it because they know that cooperating and working together makes everyone better off. It's just peer-to-peer government, you're all figuring out the way you want to work together, because it makes everyone happy.

and for those situations where someone does act like a dick, it's easy: cut them out, stop dealing with or talking to them. It works 99% of the time, they either change their mind, or they never come back. 1% of the time they become even more of a dick, and when you think about it, legal action is not strictly necessary to handle that tiny proportion of problem people, most people can still deal with issues like that without outside help (it's actually better for everyone, especially yourself, if you do that).

the biggest dicks around these days are the people we give all the power to; government workers and corporate executives & managers. Instead of protecting everyone (their supposed job), they protect themselves and their friends.

It's not democracy anymore, it's just the old-school feudal system all over again; they're like the lords, and we're the peasants. I'm not cooperating with that bullshit, and neither are millions of people around the world these days, check out the news headlines for the proof

[samdan777712]

This thread dude. 

Someone low key telling me to move to somalia if I don't like it, unironically without getting the meme reference or understanding classical anarchism.

Everyone suggesting to avoid taxes, flee America, renounce citizenship, evade taxes.

Or to use hyper illiquid useless DEX.

Or to vote on a tool like Tulsi (dont worry they are all tools, even her)

Ya know basically anything but hold the hedge funds and regulators and lawmakers who are screwing bitcoin responsible, hold them responsible as public servants. Hold them to the standards that rich white liberal yuppie investors hold legacy finance towards.

This is definitely

not

what Thomas Jefferson advised.

[hello_good_sir]

Maybe we can ask Roger Ver what he did lol.

Haha!

Maybe we can ask Roger Ver what he did lol. But yeah, I think you can choose to renounce (or to be a dual citizen) once you gain another citizenship.

It depends, what happens if you apply for citizenship when you already have one of a country that doesn't allow dual citizenships? If you are a Chinese resident and you moved to America and wanted full citizenship, would you instantly lose your Chinese citizenship when American accepts you?

The FBI shouldn't chase you if you don't owe any taxes or aren't wanted for any crimes though. I think people only need to pay a one-time exit tax nowadays, and that's only if you're making a certain amount.

Yeah, I don't think there are a lot of cases of people getting chased over countries, the one-time exit tax is very interesting though, I'd like to know some more about it, if you know more

[Kakmakr]

America runs this shit. It controls bitcoin, it controls gold, it controls the world.

Really? As far as I know Bitcoin is border less. A lot of countries are Bitcoin friendly and the best way to f#@%$k with the politicians minds is to take away their power by taking away the tax money that pays for their salaries.

The Prohibition <Alcohol> in the US has shown us the solution, when the USA start to ban Bitcoin. The black markets and underground networks will pop up like crazy and it will be decentralized, so they will not be able to shut it down.  

People will simply earn bitcoins online and then shift those bitcoins to people in Bitcoin friendly countries to convert it for them or they will have a TAX free Bitcoin holiday in those countries. All that TAX income will be lost for the US government, because they will not be spending it in the USA.  

[Murat]

The thing you have discussed here is not totally appropriate to this platform, what do you think about the future of this platform? First of all, You have to maintain a proper chain everywhere, You don't have an option to avoid like the country, tax system, Politics, and existing system, only you can not able to change anything until you have a proper platform, so you have to build up a platform where you can raise your voice regarding your issue but when you don't have like this you just have to follow this conventional system, after all, so we have to make a strong platform where we will raise our issue so let's do it for the future's survival.

[alyssa85]

America runs this shit. It controls bitcoin, it controls gold, it controls the world.

Really? As far as I know Bitcoin is border less. A lot of countries are Bitcoin friendly and the best way to f#@%$k with the politicians minds is to take away their power by taking away the tax money that pays for their salaries.

The Prohibition <Alcohol> in the US has shown us the solution, when the USA start to ban Bitcoin. The black markets and underground networks will pop up like crazy and it will be decentralized, so they will not be able to shut it down.  

People will simply earn bitcoins online and then shift those bitcoins to people in Bitcoin friendly countries to convert it for them or they will have a TAX free Bitcoin holiday in those countries. All that TAX income will be lost for the US government, because they will not be spending it in the USA.  

The USA is not going to ban bitcoin. It's one of the most bitcoin friendly states in the world. As long as companies like Coinbase are growing and paying tax, nobody is going to kill the golden goose.

[franky1]

America runs this shit. It controls bitcoin, it controls gold, it controls the world.

Really? As far as I know Bitcoin is border less. A lot of countries are Bitcoin friendly and the best way to f#@%$k with the politicians minds is to take away their power by taking away the tax money that pays for their salaries.

The USA is not going to ban bitcoin. It's one of the most bitcoin friendly states in the world. As long as companies like Coinbase are growing and paying tax, nobody is going to kill the golden goose.

to kakmakr
i am from the UK, but evn i have found that exchanges around the world treat the bitcoin price as tagged to a $ value and then later converted to other national country prices.

there is the 'bitlicence' that any country around the world, if its seen offering a service to a NY resident, its treated as a violation of the NY bitlicence

to alyssa
yes USA cant ban 'bitcoin' but can make it hard for businesses to operate using bitcoin. for instance people can make thier own homemade moonshine alcohol and offer it to people they know behind closed doors, but trying to be a pub/bar in the prohibition period(a legit business) was impossible. its not about stopping 'bitcoin' its about stopping the industry and affecting the ease of accessability that can be done.
and yes as the bitlicence has proved. usa would allow bitcoin to flow, as long as the govrenment can take a cut (MSB licence fee) from all bitcoin businesses.. and ofcourse fines for businesses that refuse to buy a liceince

[YuginKadoya]

the reason people hate taxes is not that there are taxes but that the taxes are not seen as helping th public directly

for instance.
the amount of funds that go to pay for military, but the only time people see military within a country border, is during the soldiers vacation. the rest of the time they are abroad helping out defend other countries

Well, at one point this is really true but to my perspective taxes are needed not just for paying public government officials but in the innovation of infrastructures, roads, and highway, and a lot of things that could help relieve the lives of the citizens, I guess there are government officials that are corrupt but there are some that are trustworthy and we can not have something just to blame them and for other people to see it because we are mad with the government,

what about the other trustworthy ones, even thought they are still negative with cryptocurrency and Bitcoin, they are just being cautious with the things that they don't understand, I think we need to stop this and just help the community about some issues and not keep on blaming them.