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Author Topic: Is Bitcoin not supposed to be about FREEDOM ???  (Read 319 times)
HardFacts
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November 19, 2019, 01:58:22 AM
 #1

The thing I like most about Bitcoin is that it is supposed to promote FREEDOM.    FACT:  You can not have freedom without free speech  !!!

What I found shocking is that I recently joined this forum of supposedly freedom loving people, to find CENSORSHIP worse than anywhere on the internet.  Yes, worse then YouTube, Worse than other forums, absolutely no difference of opinion is allowed here.   I started a thread here that was on topic, and had a good discussion going on with a lot of people when it was locked by the moderator here.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5162187.0

The Federal Reserve has never censored anyone, but the bitcoin community practices more CENSORSHIP than most totalitarian governments.  Anyone that thinks that bitcoin will go down in value or has inherent problems is SILENCED    Lips sealed Lips sealed Lips sealed

INVESTMENT ADVICE:   Never invest in ANYTHING, no matter what it is, if it involves censorship and hiding information from its members.  Hiding risks from investors would be illegal even on corrupt Wall Street, but is standard practice here.   If I had a lot of money invested in Bitcoin I would want ALL information I could get about it...  The community should be outraged at anyone hiding relevant information about their investments.  But in the end, it appears the Federal Reserve and Wall street are more open and honest about money than the Bitcoin community.

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November 19, 2019, 02:36:58 AM
Merited by Welsh (2)
 #2

You should really stop using/smoking stuff that is bad for your health. You created a topic on the forum and shared your opinion and others shared their opinion with their replies. Although I am not sure if it was really a moderator that locked this thread, I can see why. Bitcointalk has its own rules. Bitcointalk does not equal to Bitcoin. And do you even know how retarded is it to compare a website on the internet, a forum to Federal Reserve?

You can always click here to save yourself from the Bitcoin censors and use fiat.
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November 19, 2019, 02:51:05 AM
 #3

Bitcoin is supposed to be freedom, and it is freedom. Bitcointalk is also about freedom to a certain extent. Freedom must have been the very reason why your thread was allowed in the first place even though it was shouting "BITCOIN IS IN A BUBBLE !!!" all throughout the post. This forum was even kind enough to allow the discussion about it even if it was apparently an anti-Bitcoin topic. But I guess you cannot just summon freedom if you are hitting Bitcoin too hard, and subjectively at that, in its very house itself. I guess that would not only annoy most of the members here but also even anger them. Although I am not saying that it is the reason why your earlier thread was locked. There must be valid reasons for that though.

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November 19, 2019, 02:58:16 AM
 #4

No one can censor you from bitcoin. Everyone is allowed to trade and hold bitcoin and no one can stop that. Your own government might crack down on you if you do illegal activities to earn bitcoin but bitcoin itself won't censor white money and black ones. Bitcointalk.org is a forum to discuss about bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. It's owned by some people and the rules and censorship occurs according to their desire. If you want to discuss freely about bitcoin, you can start your own forum.

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November 19, 2019, 03:17:56 AM
Merited by Welsh (2), o_e_l_e_o (1)
 #5

If you want to discuss freely about bitcoin, you can start your own forum.

That is exactly my point, there is nothing worse than hypocrisy, people that demand freedom to use their own currency, but like you supporting outright censorship and deletion of any option they do not like.    You just made my point for me, you are not a freedom loving individual, you support the silencing of anyone that may disagree with you.   Tyrants love and depend on people like you, very typical person that has no clue about freedom.  You are willing to support anything, even censorship if you can profit from it.

If controlling everything that is said, and no dissenting opinions are allowed, then they should be honest and just tell everyone.  Here are the rules I see posted, which are very reasonable:

The policy to not remove anything worked when the forum was small. Now that we have thousands of posts a day, we can't afford 50% of them being junk. The moderators are now instructed to be less tolerant of low-value posts.

Some guidelines:

1. Free speech - you can say anything as long as it is relevant and presented in a calm and polite manner. Swearing, SHOUTING etc. make your post more likely to be removed.
2. No zero value posts or threads, like "SELL SELL SELL"
3. No pointless or uninteresting threads.
4. No referral code spam
5. No NSFW content
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November 19, 2019, 03:26:46 AM
 #6

In terms of using bitcoin, I see we're still free from using it no matter how government restricts us to do so, the problem here is just the freedom of speech for us to attract other people or basically all matters concerned to utilizing cryptocurrency. In these case, people are still free to use it anyway, if Bitcoin is really powerful, even without a strong advertisement concerning it that is being restricted will not stop Bitcoin from being adopted by people.

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November 19, 2019, 03:44:39 AM
 #7

The thing I like most about Bitcoin is that it is supposed to promote FREEDOM.    FACT:  You can not have freedom without free speech  !!!

What I found shocking is that I recently joined this forum of supposedly freedom loving people, to find CENSORSHIP worse than anywhere on the internet.  Yes, worse then YouTube, Worse than other forums, absolutely no difference of opinion is allowed here.   I started a thread here that was on topic, and had a good discussion going on with a lot of people when it was locked by the moderator here.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5162187.0

The Federal Reserve has never censored anyone, but the bitcoin community practices more CENSORSHIP than most totalitarian governments.  Anyone that thinks that bitcoin will go down in value or has inherent problems is SILENCED    Lips sealed Lips sealed Lips sealed

INVESTMENT ADVICE:   Never invest in ANYTHING, no matter what it is, if it involves censorship and hiding information from its members.  Hiding risks from investors would be illegal even on corrupt Wall Street, but is standard practice here.   If I had a lot of money invested in Bitcoin I would want ALL information I could get about it...  The community should be outraged at anyone hiding relevant information about their investments.  But in the end, it appears the Federal Reserve and Wall street are more open and honest about money than the Bitcoin community.

Hard Facts

While some of the moderating here can and should be debated, there is the one hard fact you got wrong.

Hard fact: Bitcoin is in fact the blockchain, a true globally distributed decentralized internet phenomena.
A phenomena never seen before in human culture/history.
We are witnessing a new culture regarding p2p commerce evolve.

A culture which objects to the federal reserve  and the beyond comprehession fraud of 250+ trillion in unsecured debt. A debt bubble which likely to burst sooner than later.
If there is still electricity and internet Bitcoin will emerge as something where we can  find truth not controlled by bankster governments.
Buy the dip!
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November 19, 2019, 03:56:03 AM
 #8


The thing I like most about Bitcoin is that it is supposed to promote FREEDOM.    FACT:  You can not have freedom without free speech  !!!


Bitcoin is all about freedom - the freedom to be our own banks and be away from the strong control of the government and many traditional institutions who are working only for their own interests. Now, of course, free speech should be promoted and encouraged as this is the bedrock of real democracy. However, I also believe that freedom without responsibility and restraints can be endangering the freedom of other people. And with that, there should be a sort of balancing between concerns and issue because there is no such thing as absolute with anything we are doing. I don't believe that Bitcoin means we have to promote anarchy. We need more Bitcoiners who believe in freedom and at the same time so aware and cautious with societal responsibilities.
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November 19, 2019, 04:17:21 AM
 #9

Took a look at your topic. Not sure specifically why it was locked, but my guess is that your criticisms have been the same criticisms we've been hearing since forever and those criticisms has been discussed numerous times here on Bitcointalk already in the past hence it's probably why the admins locked it. It's just really really redundant.

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November 19, 2019, 06:54:53 AM
 #10

We have heard the "Bitcoin is a Bubble" nonsense more than 5000 times on this forum and I do not blame moderators when they too get fed up with the people posting that rubbish. As you can see, the mod did not simply delete your whole thread, he left it there for people to see the other side of the debate and then he or she locked the thread, because there were nothing constructive for spammers to add to that thread.  Roll Eyes

Go to another forum that are focused on something else, like one of the Gold bug forums and post something like this on their forum and I can tell you now, they will delete it.

This forum offers people the opportunity to post whatever they want to, but when people repeat the same old mantra that has been discussed and debated 5000 times before, then they can decide to block those discussions to prevent further spam.

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November 19, 2019, 07:04:37 AM
 #11

Why don't you take the humble pie and think about some of the possible reasons why your thread could be locked. I believe this will help clarify things out better for you than boiling up with all this unecessary hate. You made a claim about bitcoin which has no proof or solid evidences and in such situation moderators AKA keepers of this forum have every right to lock your thread to prevent FUD from spreading.




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November 19, 2019, 08:31:48 AM
 #12

Meh, just read the whole thread. Your argument is too weak and has been discussed many times throughout the forum. You didn't present any evidences and started arguing that Bitcoin is this, Bitcoin is that. You can make an argument as long as you want but be sure to present some solid proof of what you are claiming. There's a lot of factors you did not consider before making an argument thus it is tagged as just another spam in my opinion and got locked.

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November 19, 2019, 08:48:23 AM
 #13

Your real intentions and the exaggerations are probably why you were censored. This sort of extreme statements(non objective & unproven comments especially) usually lead to volatility and even price dump. I bet that even the freest country on earth would sometimes moderate non-objective, unproven comments or behaviors if they actually lead to instability in the country.




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November 19, 2019, 03:48:56 PM
Merited by o_e_l_e_o (1)
 #14

You actually bring up some valid points, and a good perspective on the issues with censorship on the internet. However, I think you've taken your thread being locked out of context. First of all,  the forum probably was less moderated back then, although its not because moderators are being instructed to be less tolerant its simply down to the fact that there's more moderators. If the forum had the man power it had back then you'd likely see similar results. Plus, everything wasn't being repeated in the early days, because everything was somewhat new.

Trust me, there's far more censorship in most other places on the internet. You can definitely post anti Bitcoin posts here without them getting locked or deleted as long as they're actually constructive. Yeah, you'll likely get a lot of backlash like your thread did, but that's probably expected coming to a Bitcoin forum.

My guess to why your post got locked is because its repetitive, and isn't really adding anything new to other ongoing discussions in that section. However, it might not even be for your original opinion. It might be the fact that the thread is attracting other users which are quite frankly shitposting, and when taking into account that your original post isn't offering anything indepth or new, and basically encouraging other low quality replies that's likely why it got locked.

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November 19, 2019, 04:03:44 PM
Merited by Foxpup (3), Ryutaro (1)
 #15

Yes, worse then YouTube, Worse than other forums
No and no. 

Youtube censors a shit ton of content that's controversial, especially if it has to do with right wing politics.  If you oppose modern feminism or anything about the new 52 genders or stuff like that, forget about it--they're going to remove your video.  That isn't the case here in the P&S section where you can discuss all of that without fear that you'll get your post or thread deleted.

As far as other forums go, bitcointalk has waaaay more freedom of speech than other ones I've been a part of.  There are forums that censor profanity and ideas and generally try to keep a Disney-like atmosphere.  That is NOT the case here, and it's one of the things that attracted me to the forum in the first place.  You can generally say what you want.

All of that aside, there still needs to be rules.  OP, have you noticed how many generic, low-value, low-thought shitposts there are?  If moderators didn't delete posts like that, bitcointalk would be wall-to-wall garbage--and it's bad enough as it is, even with mods doing their best.  As others have pointed out, bitcoinTALK is not bitcoin the cryptocurrency.  A forum needs to have at least some rules, and I think this forum has a good mix of rules and enforcement thereof.

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November 19, 2019, 04:10:20 PM
 #16

It seems that you confuse here several things, bitcoin, Internet and bitcoin forum.
This forum is dedicated to the bitcoin, bitcoin technology, mining etc, but this forum is not the same as bitcoin itself.
Everyone is free to use bitcoin and it has nothing to do with this forum.
As for the Internet, there is nothing called absolute freedom, and no one is free to abuse the Internet to insult, cheat, abuse others etc.
As for internet forums, there are rules, hierarchies on each one, and there must be order otherwise we have chaos and spam.
If you think something is wrong you are free to write publicly and ask for changes, or you can stop using this forum.
You don't have to be in this forum to use bitcoin.

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November 19, 2019, 04:20:31 PM
 #17

It might be the fact that the thread is attracting other users which are quite frankly shitposting
It might be that the thread had gone entirely off-topic. The last page is people talking about botnets and sharing contact details to find and work with "other teams" who are using botnets. There was no actual constructive conversation going on, and so I don't think it's unreasonable in any way to lock such a thread.

I don't think you can really call it censorship when the thread has only been locked and not deleted, you have not been banned, and you are still able to open new topics to discuss these issues as you have just done. It was simply a mod locking a thread which was filling up with off-topic and spammy replies.

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November 19, 2019, 04:26:45 PM
 #18

It might be that the thread had gone entirely off-topic.
Exactly, although usually off topic replies themselves get deleted, unless there's a lot of off topic replies, and sometimes that results in the thread being locked. Although, I think its the combination of the OP not having enough substance to it, and the off topic replies contributing to the overall state of that thread. If the OP was actually a pretty substantial post whether it was anti Bitcoin or not then it would likely have resulted in the users that are posting off topic replies getting punished rather than the whole thread being locked.

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November 19, 2019, 04:46:01 PM
 #19

Thread was started on 06 July 2019 and it was locked on the same day, very likely because it is in the category of low-quality topics, and what is forum say about that :

Low value topics that do not encourage constructive discussion do not belong in Bitcoin Discussion. Threads not directly about news or developments within the Bitcoin ecosystem such as the following all now belong in Off Topic

The thing is quite clear, there is 0 value in topic which is based on "Bitcoin is in a bubble/has an intrinsic value of zero". For those who think they have no freedom of speech and censorship is in this forum, one big notice, the internet is much bigger than this forum.

Is it a coincidence that OP opened this thread just today, in the same time when he makes alt account and starts this : All of you Bitcoin Hodlers are mentally ill - *Must Read!

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November 19, 2019, 07:58:59 PM
 #20

I am not sure why it was locked. I mean the points there I think would have been conclusively debunked and it would have ended up valuable to the discerning reader that wanted to see how each of those points would have been tackled.

In general though I think points should be debunked in public rather than just locked, it does open the board to some criticism.

I mean that is a post that is crying out for a serious debunking and could have ended up a net positive read by the end.

Some people really may think there were valid points in the initial post letting them be dismantled and debunked is fine isn't it?

If some or all of those exact statements have been conclusively debunked already, a simple link posted in large text would have been enough.

People will generally though not know what has and has not been stated, proven or debunked in the entire history here so we can allow multiple instances if people still choose contribute to the debate unless it was super recent.

Locking should be ONLY done for super extreme instances of abuse of the forum else yes you do open yourselves to undeniable claims of crushing free speech and implementing bias.

Generally the mods do a very good job here and free speech is way better than most places on the net. But there is nothing wrong at all with calling out any instances where they are getting slack or bias is clearly evident. Don't let creep set in. If you are wrong when you point it out, then you'll soon get the memo.
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