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Author Topic: Banks Are Never There When You Need Them - That's Why We Need Bitcoin  (Read 458 times)
JessicaVL (OP)
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November 20, 2019, 11:12:57 AM
 #1

Many people believe that the banks are never there when you need them - that's why we need Bitcoin. This idea became a subject of discussion when a Twitter user, by the name Nassim Nicholas Taleb, decided to express his frustration on the social media platform.

Taleb’s tweet was in response to an original message on Twitter that was posted by news outfit, The Daily Star Lebanon. This tweet quoted a top banking official who stated that banking operations in Lebanon will resume fully when the ongoing crisis in the nation ends. This leaves bank users frustrated, one of which is Taleb, hence his venting on Twitter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yG14MKsKMc

Taleb’s reply attracted a lot of attention, leading to a discussion where several other Twitter users voiced their opinions in the comparison between banks and Bitcoin. Many of the opinions simply explained the deficiencies in the banking sector that Bitcoin has come to solve. Some of them are listed below.

Accessibility Problems

Banks in many parts of the world are open only on weekdays. Even though internet banking and other electronic banking systems now make it possible to access some services outside these periods. With Bitcoin, there is no day or night, neither is there weekends or public holidays. Transactions happen round the clock and across the globe.

Here is what the responder had to say;

https://twitter.com/TheSafestSpace/status/1187470765366493190

Faulty Lending Systems

Another user faulted the lending systems of banks and identified it as one of the problems that Bitcoin is going to fix. This is in support of the point that banks are never there when you need them - that's why we need Bitcoin. He responded with a popular quote by Bob Hope;

“A bank is a place that will lend you money if you can prove that you don't need it.”

The lending system by banks is faulted by many. Just like the quote above, before you are able to access loan facilities from most banks, you must produce a collateral with a higher value than the funds needed. Apart from that, the rigorous checks and research ahead of loan issuance could last for some weeks or even months in some cases. Today, there are Bitcoin lending platforms where you can access loans instantly.

Infrastructural deficiency

Another user highlighted the problems encountered with bank’s ATMs:

https://twitter.com/SirLordStacks/status/1187470363208208384

These are the kind of problems that you will not have when making transactions using BItcoin and cryptocurrencies. For many people, especially those who are already familiar with using Bitcoin or other kinds of cryptocurrencies, such limitations can be really frustrating.

Conclusion

Prior to this, the problem that most people have had when using Bitcoin and cryptocurrency is the problem of accessibility. This used to be a unique problem especially for first timers who are yet to purchase their first Bitcoin.

Recently, this barrier has become a thing of the past with platforms like Vertex.Market that have simplified the entry point for Bitcoin users, and those of other cryptocurrencies. On the Vertex platform you can easily buy Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies using one of their 25 payment options. It is a peer-to-peer platform and the transactions are quick and straightforward, with Bitcoin or cryptocurrencies deposited directly into your wallet.

The flexibility and efficiency that Bitcoin offers is a major reason why those who make comparisons insist that banks are never there when you need them - that's why we need Bitcoin. However, several other benefits exist, such as security, cross-border efficiency, elimination of trust and transparency.

https://medium.com/@official_83664/banks-are-never-there-when-you-need-them-thats-why-we-need-bitcoin-c4fb792f616a
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November 20, 2019, 01:54:24 PM
 #2

I think it depends on the situation. The banks should also protect their assets especially in time of crisis. Well, it is somehow ironic for people since they also need their money during crisis time. If safety of the personnel is the issue then maybe that's why. But however banks should have also some other activities aside from the clients to go in a bank branch to get there money. That's the time we'll need online banking. Much better if we have bitcoin then its more convenient and better to have many options.

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November 20, 2019, 03:01:47 PM
Last edit: November 21, 2019, 12:36:53 PM by Krislaw
Merited by stompix (1)
 #3

Both banks and Cryptocurrency have their own fans. You cant teach an illiterate how to create or run a bitcoin wallet, they won't listen, and that's why they stick to banks and allow them bank to keep their money. It's easy to explain to most literate or internet users about Cryptocurrency.
Quote
Just like the quote above, before you are able to access loan facilities from most banks, you must produce a collateral with a higher value than the funds needed.
Same thing with bitcoin lending platforms. Check Nexo and some other crypto lending platform, they will ask you for 2x of the amount you want to order as collateral. I have no idea about any crypto lending platform that doesn't ask for much collateral and if they are, I'm sure they will be very few.
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November 20, 2019, 03:30:17 PM
 #4


Accessibility Problems


You kinda countered your point here when you said that banks are connected to the Internet nowadays. This is the case most of the time, even in developing countries, so they are almost as accessible as Bitcoin.


Faulty Lending Systems


There's really nothing inherent here with banking and lending, and Bitcoin loans would have even more requirements than bank's loans, since it's so easy to default on a loan (which happens a lot on this forum).


Infrastructural deficiency


Again, everything that you apply to ATMs will be true for Bitcoin ATMs. ATMs are just a tool for converting between digital money and cash.

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November 20, 2019, 03:50:23 PM
 #5

What do you plan on doing if and when you are no longer able to trade your holdings of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies against fiat currency? What will your crypto be worth then, if you are now longer able to cash out anymore? I think that the banks are a integral part of finance and are just as important as today's cryptocurrencies. They make a decent partnership together, crypto & fiat. I know this isn't the intended idea for Bitcoin and Blockchain tech, but it is a model that works, as cryptocurrency based companies become more compliance & transparent, regulatory bodies will eventual issue guidance or even be willing to work with them.

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November 20, 2019, 04:22:16 PM
 #6

It might be your need that the bank has not met but what I am sure of is that for centuries, banks have been meeting not only individual needs, but corporate needs and government needs which has largely been responsible for the series of healthy economies that we have all around the world. In terms of infrastructure, I think to be fair, the banking industry have made significant progress even since the advent of internet which has made the use of their services much more accessible. Although, there is still gaps to cover but they are progressing.
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November 20, 2019, 04:40:03 PM
 #7

Same thing with bitcoin lending platforms. Check Nexo and some other crypto lending platform, they will ask you for 2x of the amount you want to order as collateral. I have no idea about any crypto lending platform that doesn't ask for much collateral and if they are, I'm sure they will be very few.

This.

I think collateral requirements will exist regardless of which platform you use. You might be able to get a loan without giving any collateral but 99% will ask for your ID. Collateral exists to decrease the risk of scams. If you can get a 'free' loan, without risking anything, then you can run away without fearing anything.

2x is probably too much. I'd rather ask for a loan in this forum than using that platform.

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November 20, 2019, 04:43:46 PM
 #8

I don't get why people are so against banks. They are financial institutions, but despite the central banks, the commercial banks need to make a profit. They do it by offering financial services like credits, finance options, M & As transactions, etc. If you think that banks' role will be nule if Bitcoin gets worldwide acceptance, then I'd say that you need to do a little bit more research..

With blockchain we might be able to decentralize and automatize the accordance of credits, but still there needs to be a financial institution with credibility that can afford giving you those funds even if they do it through a smart contract.
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November 20, 2019, 05:03:16 PM
 #9

I can tell you one thing, if you want a 3 month Bank stamped report of your savings account at 21h00 at night, then you will not find a Bank in my

country that would be willing to help you. Our Banks are not open 24/7 so you are stuck with Bank office hours of between 08h00 - 17h00.  Roll Eyes  I

think these Brick n Mortar Banks will seize to exist in the next 5 to 10 years and you will find virtual Banking would become the norm. Look at what

happened in Greece with the last economic crisis, they simply closed their doors and locked/restricted their ATMs.   Angry

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November 21, 2019, 11:49:27 AM
 #10

Faulty Lending Systems

Another user faulted the lending systems of banks and identified it as one of the problems that Bitcoin is going to fix. This is in support of the point that banks are never there when you need them - that's why we need Bitcoin. He responded with a popular quote by Bob Hope;

“A bank is a place that will lend you money if you can prove that you don't need it.”

The lending system by banks is faulted by many. Just like the quote above, before you are able to access loan facilities from most banks, you must produce a collateral with a higher value than the funds needed. Apart from that, the rigorous checks and research ahead of loan issuance could last for some weeks or even months in some cases. Today, there are Bitcoin lending platforms where you can access loans instantly.

As some have pointed out, this is complete bullshit!

First, the thing about providing the bank with collateral that is worth more than your loan is completely wrong. Maybe in Easter Island, Alabasta or Felimath but in the normal world I can go and ask for a loan just with my id, the bank will check that I'm employed , the monthly rate won't go over 25% of my income and the next day if not today I can withdraw all that money and spend it how I want.

Banks are not asking for collateral for personal loans! End!

Well, in crypto....they do And they ask for outrageous sums.
Seriously, who the hell is insane enough to apply for a loan in btc from a crypto loaning platform when he is forced to deposit twice the amount?

Coinloans...you can get 70% of what you deposit.
Nexo, you get half
Lendabit from 40 to 60%

No, no matter how much of a bitcoin zealot you are, you can't say that crypto loans are better than banks!
Banks are the only ones that will give you money if you don't have based on your income.
Try to get that kind of loan on this forum, let's see how this works for you!


And, for the cherry:

Recently, this barrier has become a thing of the past with platforms like Vertex.Market that have simplified the entry point for Bitcoin users, and those of other cryptocurrencies.

https://vertex.market/blog/best-ways-to-buy-bitcoin-en

Quote
1.) The Best Way To Buy Bitcoin With International Bank Wire

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November 21, 2019, 03:36:03 PM
 #11

This is why an alternative system is being built by technologies such as Bitcoin, blockchain and DeFi. And it becomes more and more advanced.
We can now enjoy deposit banking, insurance, lending and derivatives, and early forms of life insurance on the blockchain. It is a matter of time to solve the interoperability issues between the different blockchains and use the full potential of the tech stack.

In fact, there are some dApps already solving this issue: https://app.jelly.market/ . This is a dApp that executes cross-chain swaps between different blockchains, hence you can exchange BTC for ETH, or dump your TRX for BTC. The project will also integrate a bridge to Compound so that you can finally start lending and borrowing with BTC.

There is a huge amount of good developers in the sphere are a real chance to create a better parallel system.
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November 21, 2019, 03:56:11 PM
 #12

If something goes wrong or you get conned, you at least stand a slim chance of getting your money back with banks.  You send btc to the wrong address and that's it.

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November 21, 2019, 04:34:28 PM
 #13

Welcome to the cruel world fam, all these sweet smiling official from the bank, what they truly care about are getting the vote of approval from everyone of you, a business of voting system that run 24/7 and regulate your everyday life, and bank and govt are both working very closely to each other, because they’re both share the same life purpose, they’re both exist just to screw every single one of us, that’s their pleasure source come from, they basically enjoy seeing everyone working hard for the money and turn the world around at their wish, no matter you’re dead tomorrow, nobody has to care, you can just rot on your basement and yet the banker has one less mouth to feed, which is just best of both world.

Self hating nerd that want to escape from reality into the cyberpunk.
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November 21, 2019, 05:37:02 PM
 #14

At some point you are right and wrong. Banks were there when you need them. Because obviously, they have a purpose. To help their clients. But there are limitations of what banks can do and offer. Which is if we don't like, we can just look for it at other platforms. Bitcoin is here to provide what the bank is  lacking, or what we cannot see in banks.

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November 21, 2019, 08:22:03 PM
 #15

The traditional banks are there to frustrate ordinary customers. It has always been the issue that banks usually operate on a more bureaucratic controlled environment. The requirement to even open a simple savings account in some countries can easily frustrate you in the first place. It is long overdue, we need bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies in mainstream financial market to curb this monopoly by the banks.
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November 21, 2019, 08:26:54 PM
 #16

This seems to be the most basic problem with all banks, and there are a lot of people who don't care because this doesn't happen to them, but they don't realize that this only happens in the shitty times, where you need that withdraw to happen and they fuck you over.

Banks will usually work perfectly in most situations, where everyone is happy and doing well, but when it becomes fucked, bitcoin or investments you can personally hold yourself are the best options.

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November 21, 2019, 09:02:49 PM
 #17

Accessibility Problems

I highly doubt you'll have to visit banks everyday or weekly. And when you visit banks, you do it to create bank account, get card, consultation and etc but still a lot of things are done online, you have to visit store when it's really necessary and you have to sign. How is bitcoin capable of changing this process? You can use bitcoin for send/receive, nothing more, bank service is absolutely different case there.

Faulty Lending Systems

Bitcoin can't solve this problem too, in any case when big loan is given, you have to offer collateral.

Infrastructural deficiency

If I want to withdraw money and there are errors popup on atm (which personally I have never had), how bitcoin can save you? It's even more hard to take phone, open wallet, sent amount you want, choose fee and etc.

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November 21, 2019, 09:20:49 PM
 #18

Banks are limited and if you don’t have any job then it will be hard for you to transact with the banks. Banks are too slow to manage your money, they are making a huge charges agains your account while the interest per annum was too low. Bitcoin changes everything and make a better things for us, we badly needed a real currency and real financial system that’s why I’m happy to know bitcoin and always an honor for me to have it.

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November 21, 2019, 10:06:28 PM
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 #19

No mentioning of fractional reserve. No wonder some people still think the banks are fine.

A bank is an incredibly fragile scheme, as in MLM scheme. A bank can go "bankrupt" if minuscule group of their clientele decides to withdraw all their money.

It is not about making profits AT ALL, that is not the problem. The problem is how the clients are absolutely unaware of fractional reserve.

People are misled to believe their money is "safe" in the bank. No it isn't, quite the opposite, in fact.

Here is the gist of it: You deposit 1000 they keep 100 in the vault, 900 is "lent away" immediately.

Someone gets those 900, deposits it in the bank again, 90 is in the vault, 810 "goes away"...

Someone gets that 810, deposits it in the bank, 81 is in the vault 729 "goes away"

Someone gets 729, deposits it in the bank, 72 is in the bank 657 "goes away"

I hope you start to see the pattern. So far, only 1000 entered the system, but the bank has already produced: 3096 the bank is already 2096 short, oh but they don't stop at 657, it goes all the way down... 592, 533, 480, 432, 389, 351, 316, 285, 257, 232, 209, 189, 171, 154, 139, 126, 114, 103, 93, 84, 76, 69, 63, 57, 52, 47, 43, 39, 36, 33, 30, 27, 25, 23, 21, 19, 18, 17, 16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10, 9...

When 1000 enters the system, bank has produced "Over 9000!"™ out of thin air, it doesn't really exist anywhere, but to them it does...

This is only sustainable as long as all of them don't "think" of withdrawing their money at the same time. Like an MLM scheme? Like an MLM scheme. Until the late 19th century this practice was illegal, and in many countries punishable by death. The older banks, were supposed to keep all the money that was given to them in their vaults. Of course, they would need to be paid (not the other way around) for this service.

This is why it shocks me when people get shocked over the idea that you should be paying the bank, not the other way around. This is because something this fundamental isn't teached, why, because... History of banking.

You see, some bankers did in fact infringed the law. They used some of that money "that was in the vault doing nothing" without permission. Those bankers that returned the money to the bank (and kept the profits) prospered, and became influential, and managed to change laws. With time, the scheme got legalized into what is currently modern banking.

But that is not how it should be. To break this scheme, the followers of the Austrian school of economy propose that banks "by default" become full reserve, ie. any money you deposit is entirely in there, and YOU have to pay a month fee for the service. IF the client want that money to be lent (or part of it) it should, previous authorization and fool knowledge of the risks involved, be moved into a separate type of account. However here comes the critical part, if the money is actually lent, that money CANNOT be available to the client until its returned. This is critical because its stops the MLM type scheme on its track. If the bank however offers you all the money any time regardless, the bank is playing fractional reserve again.

A bank that has full reserve, cannot go bankrupt. Everyone can withdraw the entirety of their money at anytime, and it will be there. Of course a bank without customers isn't much of a business, but even it if closes, none would lose their money.

That is not what happens with modern banks, to say the least, its always the clients that lose their money, sometimes the banks are saved, but the people never can. The State needs to save the bank "at all costs", including forsaking that bank's clientele. This is out of fear that a bankrupting bank would create a domino effect and crash the economy of that country, and that is why...

The State made an institution that lends to banks "just in case" too many clients decide to withdraw, thus creating the illusion the the money has always been safe. Yes, the bank of banks on a national level is called the Central Bank, its usually (but not necessarily) owned by the State, and it happens that in some countries they are also given free reign over the national currency.

Well this is sort of a buffer, with a proper Central bank in place, no bankruns would ever occur, as long as they are limited to one bank or a few banks, that is unless... The entire country enters in panic, and not only 10% of the people withdraw their money from that bank, but from ALL banks in the country... Fear not, because the World Bank was made for that...

Did you know each lender has their own conditions? I hope you do, and they all want their cut of the pie, it was YOUR fault for not preventing your customers to "flee" in the first place...

Please, don't waste your time with minuscule things like bank working hours, or fee amounts, that is the LEAST of your problems.

Do your own research about fractional reserve banking online. Never forget this, it takes about 10% of the entire money in banks to be withdrew to cause an economy crash. Sorry but there is no galactic bank to buffer Earth's economy... (yet).

Nothing broadcasts fear more than a closed bank. This is why they try their best to keep their doors open even when bad rumors come in. The fact that "rumors" can break a bank into pieces, is because of how fragile their system is.

A bank with full reserve don't need to mind rumors. At some point in history, the bank of Amsterdam operated in such conditions, even with War ravaging Europe, they had no problem returning the entire money to any client that requested it. That in turn made that bank a legendary reputation.

Alas, but a bank operated like that is less profitable than one using fractional reserve. Well duh you can potentially earn much more in a MLM than in a honest (boring) investment. This is similar to the difference from the currently dominating Chicago school of economy vs the Austrian school of economy (debt vs saving for growth).

One would think more people would be more aware of this, but they aren't. Otherwise they would not be using banks at all. Ah but how to keep the money that is intentionally losing purchasing power every year by State intervention? Perhaps by having a money that cannot be made to lose its value overtime...

When someone mention banks always remember about fractional reserve banking this is the center of the issue. Full reserve banking can return, but after a century or brainwash, people need to relearn what a bank is.

Look, getting paid when you give a stranger your money to keep safe, is NOT logical, that should raise your suspicions immediately. But you are letting your bank do it, because the State regulates it, and you trust it will be safe... Well hope you never experience a bank-run or a coin devaluation...

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November 21, 2019, 10:11:04 PM
 #20

It's very hard to always rely on your bank and be able to always count on them to have your money when you need it, to help you whenever you require it, and it's one of the main reasons why I prefer being your own bank.

Holding your own money via crypto-currencies, holding your own cash that you can always count on gives you a certain level of security that the banks cannot simply give you. The country I live in is doing quite well so I'm able to trust the banks a lot more, but I still hold a lot of crypto and cash, as well real estate.

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