Disturbing

[coin-investor]

It's kinda disturbing how every major overhaul is a result (Probably) of China's action towards the crypto space. Last time when BTC jumped from 7.3k to 10k, there were talks that it was China's announcement regarding their choice to concentrate on developing blockchain technology. We've seen the gradual stabilization of 10k to 9k then dropping down to a bull run of 8k and at the moment, 7.1k. The progress from 9k - 8.1k took a few weeks to say the least, and yet, BTC suddenly took a drop from 8k - 7.1k, ever so closing into the 6k mark.

And at this point in time did China announce that they are vowing to ban all local crypto exchange inside their country. This isn't a result of them having majority of their local market for the crypto, but a genuine ban on it and instead said that they would focus more on blockchain technology instead.

source: https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-drops-below-73k-as-china-vows-to-dispose-of-exchanges

Since they have spoken we have need to get used to it that China will not accept Bitcoin only blockchain, but I highly doubt if they can stop it's people to hodl and use Bitcoin, they can do it in their jurisdiction, but we have Chinese already in Cryptocurrency and there are Chinatown or Chinese in every part of the world, and this is only for Xi Jinping administration, government come and go but Bitcoin will still be here.

[arwin100]

It's kinda disturbing how every major overhaul is a result (Probably) of China's action towards the crypto space. Last time when BTC jumped from 7.3k to 10k, there were talks that it was China's announcement regarding their choice to concentrate on developing blockchain technology. We've seen the gradual stabilization of 10k to 9k then dropping down to a bull run of 8k and at the moment, 7.1k. The progress from 9k - 8.1k took a few weeks to say the least, and yet, BTC suddenly took a drop from 8k - 7.1k, ever so closing into the 6k mark.

And at this point in time did China announce that they are vowing to ban all local crypto exchange inside their country. This isn't a result of them having majority of their local market for the crypto, but a genuine ban on it and instead said that they would focus more on blockchain technology instead.

source: https://cointelegraph.com/news/bitcoin-drops-below-73k-as-china-vows-to-dispose-of-exchanges

Since they have spoken we have need to get used to it that China will not accept Bitcoin only blockchain, but I highly doubt if they can stop it's people to hodl and use Bitcoin, they can do it in their jurisdiction, but we have Chinese already in Cryptocurrency and there are Chinatown or Chinese in every part of the world, and this is only for Xi Jinping administration, government come and go but Bitcoin will still be here.

For people who already know on how to use bitcoin for sure they will not leave it since they surely don't want to lose a source of profit since we all know what bitcoins could possibly bring to us interms of investment and those China fuds will subside since many people will forget those news and it's not new we already encounter many of these so provably these is a sort of manipulation to create a bad impact to the price of bitcoins.

[exstasie]

the first thing that pops into my head when i see that is tether, given their huge push into the chinese market over the past year:

That move on their part blew my pea-sized mind. It's as if they were actively looking to get 15 bulging inches up them all the way to the hilt.

I never bothered to look into the details of it or how used it is. The whole idea seemed bonkers from the off.

It's not only China we need to worry about. Thanks to Libra, the US Congress is mulling over a bill that would make centralized stablecoins "securities" under federal law: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/21/new-bill-would-make-facebooks-cryptocurrency-a-security-under-the-law.html

That could have big implications for any exchange that serves US customers and lists stablecoins. Thanks a lot, Zuckerberg!

On the plus side, it could be a boon for decentralized stablecoin liquidity. Coins like DAI aren't "managed" stablecoins.

[dirgayeah]

Again and Again, news like this from china. always there's a FUD on china. do you think still any hidden scenario from this news right ?
how do you think ? just use our logic. why now? bitcoin already operated on there for almost 10 years. and now they make this become a problem? it's like a joke man. an Old method still used for making ppl panic. because these years become last time for buying bitcoin at deep price.

[stadus]

We know how big china's influence in crypto, but the fact that they have already banning crypto years back, it should not affect much now if they made an announcement again. AFAIR, they announce a ban before the last bull run, but what we have, we have a great bull run and even China FUD that time is useless. Maybe let's just focus on other things and be mature already, forget about china's negative first since the banning is very negative and it has already affected the market, too some times to positive adoption other country has done and offered.

I am telling you, BTC will pump again, that's the game.

[magneto]

Is it really disturbing? What is disturbing is how markets knew about this coming for ages and still reacted, somehow, some way, this strongly, which makes absolutely no sense to me and suggests that there is currently a lot of irrational actors driving price action.

The PBoC was never intending to endorse decentralised cryptos in the first place yet people were acting like they were when Xi's comments initially came out.

It's an overreaction both ways, imo, and there is no reason to believe that prices should fall down to previous bear market bottoms again.

[stompix]

We know how big china's influence in crypto, but the fact that they have already banning crypto years back, it should not affect much now if they made an announcement again.

No, you can't know something that doesn't exist!
China has as much influence in crypto right now as Nepal.

What is has, it has a bunch of panicking morons who at every piece of garbage half-line coming of China are screaming like some mad geese and simply won't shut up no matter how many arguments are hammered on their heads.
China means zero, there are no more exchanges there, there are no shops, no ATMs, no real usage, there is only mining and that also slowly dings down. So, for god's sake stop this madness.

And furthermore, how can you even claim they have a big influence when they've already banned it?
Use logic, it's like some hardcore vegans stopped buying honey-baked ribs and now the entire pig industry is in bankruptcy!

[Dart18]

A sudden change on becoming the apple of the eye.
They have done too much ruckus in the crypto space and that is why analysts out there are always looking at their move.
The bad thing though is there is no fact that could back up if they are the reason behind all this pumps and dumps that is happening with bitcoin.

They are just speculating and it could be anything.
Some whale maybe using this opportunity to manipulate the market.

[gentlemand]

China has as much influence in crypto right now as Nepal.

What is has, it has a bunch of panicking morons who at every piece of garbage half-line coming of China are screaming like some mad geese and simply won't shut up no matter how many arguments are hammered on their heads.
China means zero, there are no more exchanges there, there are no shops, no ATMs, no real usage, there is only mining and that also slowly dings down. So, for god's sake stop this madness.

And furthermore, how can you even claim they have a big influence when they've already banned it?
Use logic, it's like some hardcore vegans stopped buying honey-baked ribs and now the entire pig industry is in bankruptcy!

There will still be plenty of Chinese folks who hold a lot of coinage and of course miners will be having plenty of new ones arriving as well.

Even though the whole scene is supposedly nullified there there's got to be some seepage into other markets. The big players won't walk away that easily.

[Wexlike]

A sudden change on becoming the apple of the eye.
They have done too much ruckus in the crypto space and that is why analysts out there are always looking at their move.
The bad thing though is there is no fact that could back up if they are the reason behind all this pumps and dumps that is happening with bitcoin.

They are just speculating and it could be anything.
Some whale maybe using this opportunity to manipulate the market.

Just try to swim with the whales when you're a small fish.

[figmentofmyass]

We know how big china's influence in crypto, but the fact that they have already banning crypto years back, it should not affect much now if they made an announcement again.

No, you can't know something that doesn't exist!
China has as much influence in crypto right now as Nepal.

What is has, it has a bunch of panicking morons who at every piece of garbage half-line coming of China are screaming like some mad geese and simply won't shut up no matter how many arguments are hammered on their heads.
China means zero, there are no more exchanges there, there are no shops, no ATMs, no real usage, there is only mining and that also slowly dings down. So, for god's sake stop this madness.

why do you think that?

the exchange ban just sent chinese exchanges and traders offshore. yuan-denominated trading may be way down since then, but that's all. according to chainalysis, tether is used in 99% of bitcoin spot trades in china.

this year, tether surpassed bitcoin in trading volumes: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-01/tether-not-bitcoin-likely-the-world-s-most-used-cryptocurrency

and research now shows that china is responsible for the majority of global tether volumes: https://cointelegraph.com/news/research-china-leads-world-in-tether-trading-volumes-in-2019

we can also see the size of the p2p market ballooned after the major chinese exchanges froze withdrawals in early 2017, suggesting the market is much bigger than centralized exchanges: https://coin.dance/volume/localbitcoins/CNY

And furthermore, how can you even claim they have a big influence when they've already banned it?

they never banned bitcoin usage, p2p trading, bitcoin mining, mining manufacturing. all they banned was domestic ICOs and centralized exchanges. the ICO market is dead anyway and the exchanges all moved offshore.

nothing fundamentally changed---china is still a huge part of the bitcoin market.

[stompix]

why do you think that?

Because there are zero atms, zero business there, you can have a wallet full of bitcoins in the capital but you will have to eat leftover at McDonald's because there is no damn business accepting your coins.
Because from the first moment we had Chinese exchanges they were inflating their numbers by 1000x, because everything coming from there was fake information, fake numbers, fake everything.

this year, tether surpassed bitcoin in trading volumes: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-01/tether-not-bitcoin-likely-the-world-s-most-used-cryptocurrency
and research now shows that china is responsible for the majority of global tether volumes: https://cointelegraph.com/news/research-china-leads-world-in-tether-trading-volumes-in-2019

Again, you're trusting numbers coming from okcoin&co...seriosuly?
https://coinmarketcap.com/rankings/exchanges/liquidity/

we can also see the size of the p2p market ballooned after the major chinese exchanges froze withdrawals in early 2017, suggesting the market is much bigger than centralized exchanges: https://coin.dance/volume/localbitcoins/CNY

Baloooned to....4000 btc /week?
Or less than Russia was doing on a daily base?
Only to drop after below the UK?
Not impressed!  

nothing fundamentally changed---china is still a huge part of the bitcoin market.

Agree with the first part, adding a bit to the last to agree.
It is still one huge FAKE part!  

[InvoKing]

Just try to swim with the whales when you're a small fish.

Ol' Big Whales!
After a fast bullrun, a drop will surely happens so people can make some profit (2 much 4 big whales), meanwhile other people are discussing why it is up or down, blamin' chinese, russian...

[figmentofmyass]

why do you think that?

Because there are zero atms, zero business there, you can have a wallet full of bitcoins in the capital but you will have to eat leftover at McDonald's because there is no damn business accepting your coins.

what is this evidence of? i've never seen anyone using a bitcoin ATM. and hardly anyone spends bitcoins at merchants, especially brick-and-mortar merchants. bitcoin is clearly a speculative asset first and foremost. i know chinese traders and they don't give a fuck about bitcoin ATMs lol.

btw, the chinese government just closed down 173 of crypto exchanges/platforms. so you can give up this charade that bitcoin completely disappeared from china when the government banned exchanges in 2017. https://beincrypto.com/china-shuts-down-173-cryptocurrency-exchanges-and-token-issuing-platforms/

Because from the first moment we had Chinese exchanges they were inflating their numbers by 1000x, because everything coming from there was fake information, fake numbers, fake everything.

if you actually knew your history, you'd know the fake volume wars began in 2015. look at any okcoin chart; its clear as day. yet china was the primary driver of the late 2013 bubble. any old school traders here will attest to that.

nothing you're saying proves that chinese speculation isn't a huge part of the market. the addition of fake volume activity since 2015 obfuscates the true data; it doesn't magically erase china from the earth.

this year, tether surpassed bitcoin in trading volumes: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-10-01/tether-not-bitcoin-likely-the-world-s-most-used-cryptocurrency
and research now shows that china is responsible for the majority of global tether volumes: https://cointelegraph.com/news/research-china-leads-world-in-tether-trading-volumes-in-2019

Again, you're trusting numbers coming from okcoin&co...seriosuly?
https://coinmarketcap.com/rankings/exchanges/liquidity/

no. i'm trusting chainalysis' report that 99% of chinese spot trading is done with tether, and i'm trusting tether's blockchain issuance.

coinmarketcap's numbers are also inflating bitcoin volumes, not just tether. the point is that tether's massive inflation and trading volumes appear to be directly linked with china's prohibition of centralized CNY exchanges.

we can also see the size of the p2p market ballooned after the major chinese exchanges froze withdrawals in early 2017, suggesting the market is much bigger than centralized exchanges: https://coin.dance/volume/localbitcoins/CNY

Baloooned to....4000 btc /week?

yes, from 200 BTC/week.

you're glossing over the fact that nobody traded p2p prior to the withdrawal freeze in early 2017. everybody used exchanges like okcoin because you could do instant e-wallet transfers in and out.

the week before okcoin, btcc, and huobi froze withdrawals, there was 218 BTC in localbitcoins volume. a few weeks later, there was 7300 BTC in localbitcoins volume. more than a 3200% increase, and obviously a direct response to the situation at centralized chinese exchanges.

the gradually declining localbitcoins volume to date coincides with the massive ballooning of tether's market cap from $100 million to over $4 billion. we now know that chinese speculators are a huge part of that. chainalysis says so, and so does the fact that tether is pushing even further into the chinese market by issuing a CNH stablecoin.

[carlfebz2]

Just try to swim with the whales when you're a small fish.

Ol' Big Whales!
After a fast bullrun, a drop will surely happens so people can make some profit (2 much 4 big whales), meanwhile other people are discussing why it is up or down, blamin' chinese, russian...

Common lines to be spoken off by the community neither both ways.When theres a pump then there would be always a reason and same goes for drop where people do keep pointing on fingers nothing new!

[stompix]

what is this evidence of? i've never seen anyone using a bitcoin ATM. and hardly anyone spends bitcoins at merchants, especially brick-and-mortar merchants. bitcoin is clearly a speculative asset first and foremost. i know chinese traders and they don't give a fuck about bitcoin ATMs lol.

I've never seen anyone buying a diamond, thus there are no people buying diamonds.
Then can you explain why the hell do we have 6000 atms? It's businesses wasting money?

The guys from shitcoinclub have a list of their atms and the funds available, I was amazed to see those numbers going down day by day on the order of thousands of euros, and we're talking about eastern Europe here....

btw, the chinese government just closed down 173 of crypto exchanges/platforms. so you can give up this charade that bitcoin completely disappeared from china when the government banned exchanges in 2017.

Where have I said that bitcoin disappeared from China?
Don't go that way, don't put words in my mouth, I like strawberries:P

if you actually knew your history, you'd know the fake volume wars began in 2015. look at any okcoin chart; its clear as day. yet china was the primary driver of the late 2013 bubble. any old school traders here will attest to that.

If you would know your history you would know that the fake volume war started in 2013:
Chinese Bitcoin Exchange OKCoin Accused of Faking Trading Data
Dec 21, 2013 at 20:10 UTC

nothing you're saying proves that chinese speculation isn't a huge part of the market.

Right back at ya!

i'm trusting tether's blockchain issuance.

Seriously?

the week before okcoin, btcc, and huobi froze withdrawals, there was 218 BTC in localbitcoins volume. a few weeks later, there was 7300 BTC in localbitcoins volume. more than a 3200% increase, and obviously a direct response to the situation at centralized chinese exchanges.

So, from 25k bitcoin an hour, the amount huobi was claiming to have on the day before.....the response was 1000 Btc a day!
It sounds pretty realistic to me.

[figmentofmyass]

what is this evidence of? i've never seen anyone using a bitcoin ATM. and hardly anyone spends bitcoins at merchants, especially brick-and-mortar merchants. bitcoin is clearly a speculative asset first and foremost. i know chinese traders and they don't give a fuck about bitcoin ATMs lol.

I've never seen anyone buying a diamond, thus there are no people buying diamonds.
Then can you explain why the hell do we have 6000 atms? It's businesses wasting money?

how does that prove that ATMs have a significant effect on the market? show us the numbers.

the existence of ATMs in europe or the USA doesn't change the fact that they never mattered in china.

btw, the chinese government just closed down 173 of crypto exchanges/platforms. so you can give up this charade that bitcoin completely disappeared from china when the government banned exchanges in 2017.

Where have I said that bitcoin disappeared from China?
Don't go that way, don't put words in my mouth, I like strawberries:P

China has as much influence in crypto right now as Nepal.

China means zero, there are no more exchanges there, there are no shops, no ATMs, no real usage, there is only mining and that also slowly dings down.

And furthermore, how can you even claim they have a big influence when they've already banned it?

you did say "there are no more exchanges there". actually there were hundreds before the government shut them down a few days ago. and comparing china to nepal is just ridiculous. i dunno if you just have an incredibly western-centric worldview or what, but that's just insane.

if you actually knew your history, you'd know the fake volume wars began in 2015. look at any okcoin chart; its clear as day. yet china was the primary driver of the late 2013 bubble. any old school traders here will attest to that.

If you would know your history you would know that the fake volume war started in 2013:
Chinese Bitcoin Exchange OKCoin Accused of Faking Trading Data
Dec 21, 2013 at 20:10 UTC

pffff, give me a break. at that time, okcoin was doing the same volume as bitstamp. in 2016, they were doing 10 million BTC volume per day. there is no comparison.

one article citing one source who looked at one 2-hour period is also not a basis to suggest (as you are) that all chinese volume in 2013 was fake. some of the top "western" exchanges like bitfinex and binance have been accused of faking volume too, but that's not a basis to say they have no effect on the market.

anecdotally, i knew dozens of traders in late 2013. nobody even followed gox anymore because we all knew china ran the market. all the moves triggered there (and later on the chinese futures market). by 2015-16 most of us were trading on huobi and okcoin because of the superior liquidity. sure we all joked about the "chopper" and the "volumizer" but at the end of the day, slippage at bitstamp fucked you 10x worse than okcoin. there was undoubtedly lots of real liquidity, more so than any western exchanges.

nothing you're saying proves that chinese speculation isn't a huge part of the market.

Right back at ya!

you're the one claiming china has zero effect on the market. the burden is on you......

i'm trusting tether's blockchain issuance.

Seriously?

that's not an actual argument......

are you suggesting that >4 billion USDT hasn't been issued? that it hasn't grown by 4000% in the last 1.5 years, during a time when chinese traders left mainland exchanges en masse? that 99% of spot trades in china are not using tether?

what exactly are you rolling your eyes at?

the circulating supply says nothing about their dollar reserves. i'm not commenting on that. but it does corroborate chainalysis' report that USDT has completely replaced the yuan for chinese speculators---which you are conveniently ignoring.

the week before okcoin, btcc, and huobi froze withdrawals, there was 218 BTC in localbitcoins volume. a few weeks later, there was 7300 BTC in localbitcoins volume. more than a 3200% increase, and obviously a direct response to the situation at centralized chinese exchanges.

So, from 25k bitcoin an hour, the amount huobi was claiming to have on the day before.....the response was 1000 Btc a day!
It sounds pretty realistic to me.

i think we've established that the volume numbers were completely inflated by early 2017. (but again, that does nothing to prove your claim that china has zero effect on the market.....)

this is also just localbitcoins, a western site. it offers a glimpse of the p2p market in china. i've been told that wechat and alipay are much more common venues for p2p trading in china but we have no data for that.

[stompix]

Ok, I'll throw in the towel, China has 0.001% real effect on the market, the rest is people claiming that China is huge and it matters.
And it's not as important as Nepal but as...Bhutan?

. i dunno if you just have an incredibly western-centric worldview or what, but that's just insane.

Nope, it means actually watching what happens and how things evolve for six f years.
For six f years, all I've heard is that China is China will do, China is ....and look, 6 years later apart from the obvious fake volume there is nothing coming from China regarding bitcoin!
Nothing!

Look at how many shops are in the western world, look at how many companies are involved, how many people are talking and buying and using it. Yet the only Chinese you hear are involved with bitcoin are the ones fleeing the country  

No, it's not a western-centric point of view, me actually being on the border of eastern Europe, but reality!
For years I've heard stories about the huge growth in Venezuela, Nigeria, Zimbabwe, South Africa..it was all a lie, just like China is.
And the main culprit for this is indeed a biased view, people who hate the US and are trying to deny that the core of usage and ownership and everything regarding bitcoin (apart from mining equipment manufacturing) is based there. The same hate and denial caused by the fact that the US is seen as an emblem of fiat money is making people not see the reality of the BTC markets.

You can lie to yourself how much you want, China's importance in bitcoin is going to zero, and nothing is going to change this.
 

[dirgayeah]

Just try to swim with the whales when you're a small fish.

Yeah we don't have any power bdw. What we can do if Big whale are taking control over the sea? 
The small fish only watch and follow the game which is made by whale. And China have a great power to do that. Then what will gonna happen with their local exchange like binance, etc?

[ethereumhunter]

Right now, bitcoin back to $7512 and I am happy to see the price can increase after it's down deeper. I see that the price changes too fast at the market and I hope that it could start to rise to a higher price. You can sell your bitcoin now if you buy bitcoin at $7000 and taking $500 is a nice profit. But you can hold for more to sell for another higher price but be careful, we still at the unpredicted of bitcoin price so you need to know what you should do.