The real problem in bitcoin (economic facts included)

[blandana]

Ok internet you want the truth?

You know I don't post here often but I've been here since 2013 so you know if I post something it's probably serious.  Unlike my avatar says I'm not a newbie.  Mad money.  *presses noise maker button*

The real problem?  It's on Binance folks, we got a problem.  You wanna know how it was in 2017?  It was great.  We could double our money in a week and then crash and buy back in and do it all over again but something just gets in the way now.

You know I didn't ask for it....Neither did you.  Now when crypto goes up, some sociopath/psychopath tries to harass people with fake volume and fake buys. You know its true. I'm literally trying to sue someone now over it. Am I right?  I know I'm right

You know I'm right.  You want to sell without getting harassed.  You aren't owned by random bullies on the internet are you? you want to do something to change this.



You know if this "problem" learned how to stop buying and just traded like normal people and didn't also most likely try to post fake articles and influence or pay people to act like bitcoin is always going to go up that we wouldn't have this sort of problem?

We have a control freak on our hands and something needs to be done.  Lawsuit anyone?  I can't believe I have to try and start fixing this almost entirely on my own and I'm only 30 years old.  Do I have to save the world by myself?


There's something wrong folks and I'm just ashamed not many people have spoken up about this.  The market is better without this violent rage sort of buying mumbo and I know theres a few people here who remember what it was like when "something" out there didn't just try to fight every red candle they see.

I'm not sure if I can repond to any replies but this is really how it is.  It's not cool anymore dude

[Deathwing]

You sound like you are basically mad at an exchange for having fake volume and fake buys, just use another exchange. No one is forcing you to use Binance. You are not forced by anyone to listen to specific people's buy or sell orders. I've been in this since 2013 too, haven't had a single problem. Am I sad at the fact that I missed some considerable opportunities to buy? Yes. Am I sad at the fact that I sold some of my Bitcoins in 2013-2014? Yes. But it still goes on. "We could double our money in a week, and then crash and buy back in and do it all over again." you can still do this. Just a few days ago, Bitcoin dropped to 6400-6500 USD/BTC levels, as I type this message, according to my ticket it's 7260 USD right now. That's a profit right there if you had bought some.

Don't pay any attention to any "professional trader" or any articles, just use your own experience.

[Red-Apple]

The real problem?  It's on Binance folks, we got a problem.  You wanna know how it was in 2017?  It was great.  We could double our money in a week and then crash and buy back in and do it all over again but something just gets in the way now.

You know I didn't ask for it....Neither did you.  Now when crypto goes up, some sociopath/psychopath tries to harass people with fake volume and fake buys.

it sounds to me more like altcoin dump issue that you experienced in Binance mainly after 2017. the problem is that you have been caught up in the shitcoin pump and dump schemes. you could close your eyes and choose any shitcoin in 2017 and double your money but that didn't last long and you got dumped on.
so yeah, you are correct it is fake but not fake volume, it is real volume but fake price rise by what we call altcoin pump. and since it is a pump, it will be followed by a dump.

none of it has anything to do with bitcoin though!

[avikz]

Well, I can't deny the fact that the problem is indeed real! Fake volumes with incremental price is a big challenge for a lot of traders and it's no myth! That's the reason why Coinmarketcap recently made a great change in the exchange ranking metrics and added "liquidity" as one of the key metric for ranking the exchanges!

However, the issues related to fake volumes can't be eradicated completely! Because few exchanges are directly involved in the game of making money! Regulation and proper auditing at certain time intervals are the only thing that can force eradicate such malpractices! Otherwise, we all will have to face these challenges!

Btw, these practices are more often used in cheap altcoins. For bitcoin market, billion dollars are needed to execute such tactics!

[buwaytress]

I fail to understand why this is a problem for retail Bitcoin traders... i.e., you and me and most of us on this forum.

I'm fully aware of trading metrics reporting -- not just by Binance but by everyone else. I mean, I'm not what you'd call a trader. I have modest offers every week or so, just regular but infrequent trading on Localbitcoins, and I see even there, guys rack up volumes and trade #s so quickly even at prices worse than my offers -- so I know people are gaming the system.

But so what? Hasn't affected me at all. CMC data? People been dissing it for so long, and I agree, it's fake or whatever, but so what? If anyone bases their trades on metrics they can't verify or know for sure is falsified, then they probably deserve to get the rug pulled from under their feet.

Sorry, but I'm not sure I understand why I should care. Am I missing something?

[MURONDI]

no trader likes fake volume, I think the fake volume is only to attract traders to join the exchange, I don't really know whether it affects the price of bitcoin, because what I know of exchanges with one another has only a little difference in price.

[Swordsoffreedom]

I don't exactly understand OP's frustrations. Why don't you trade on legitimate exchanges which have organic volume. Of course there is a problem of fake volume but it's known which exchanges do that.
And fake volume is not used only to pump the price as OP suggests. It's even easier to crash the price by selling to your own buy offers so you keep the bitcoins in your hand while selling bellow the natural price.

[pjcaruci]

I do not see any problems here, you just need to understand all the features of bitcoin.

[auntyjmary]

The clarity of the OP  in English was really hard to comprehend but I get the message behind the post. It is obvious some crypto enthusiasts are not excited about the many challenges affecting the market especially when it comes to the many manipulations on the market. The reality is that price fluctuations and the presentation of fake volumes by the exchanges have always been with cryptocurrencies.

[darkangel11]

The same thing was being done to the stock market and then somebody came with an idea that there should be law forbidding stock market manipulation.
Bitcoin market is unregulated so we could expect it would attract the the scum.
Why do you think there's so much fake news and the news gets repeated by crypto news sites, then mainstream media, then is proven wrong but nobody gets punished in any way. News sites don't even apologize.

I see only 2 ways to fight it. One is to regulate the market and the other is not to react to manipulation.

[Ucy]

 Seems you are not too pleased with the current market (uptrend?). Do you want it down, up , stable or something? Or you are disappointed because you probably planned to buy more coins for profits in the future?
I honestly don't understand why some would want the market to crash. Crashed price doesn't really matter much in Crypto world.. . strong demands will always return especially if a coin is useful /valuable to many people.

[Asmonist]

Problems like that is like a normal situation I guess. We can't stop it but somehow we can avoid or choose lesser fees for every exchange you needed to do. You can have it exchange to other crypto coins if you think you can save on that way. Then exchange it to your desired currency. There are possible ways to lessen the fees or charges.

[pooya87]

the problem you are talking about is mainly with altcoins and even that is not such a big deal. the fake volume reported by bitcoin exchanges has not been an issue for a very long time since the market has grown and the exchanges have gained the popularity they were hoping for so they no longer need that fake volume reports anymore and the Chinese exchanges that were the biggest problems are no longer around.
however this problem still persists in altcoins as the altcoin exchanges are still desperate for volume and need to encourage users to trade shitcoins that may otherwise be dead. but that still doesn't manipulate the market (the price) it only affects popularity and incentivize trading nothing more.

[amishmanish]

You know if this "problem" learned how to stop buying and just traded like normal people and didn't also most likely try to post fake articles and influence or pay people to act like bitcoin is always going to go up that we wouldn't have this sort of problem?

We have a control freak on our hands and something needs to be done.  Lawsuit anyone?  I can't believe I have to try and start fixing this almost entirely on my own and I'm only 30 years old.  Do I have to save the world by myself?

There's something wrong folks and I'm just ashamed not many people have spoken up about this.  The market is better without this violent rage sort of buying mumbo and I know theres a few people here who remember what it was like when "something" out there didn't just try to fight every red candle they see.

Good try at becoming a meme but i think he isn't just blaming Binance or Alt-coins like everybody else is pointing out. I highlighted the important parts, especially the last line.

I think he is talking about how price has become everything. Those early adopters who became twitter influencers are constantly trying to defend the drops by parroting the same old "Its gud for bitcoin" quotes. Then there is the honeybadger memes on r/bitcoin. Everything is about fucking price and nobody talks about the developers or the new use-cases for bitcoin showing that it can be more. Or even the enterprising streak that the early adopters professed about the new economy.
There has to be something more to the technology than just price..

[tippytoes]

the problem you are talking about is mainly with altcoins and even that is not such a big deal. the fake volume reported by bitcoin exchanges has not been an issue for a very long time since the market has grown and the exchanges have gained the popularity they were hoping for so they no longer need that fake volume reports anymore and the Chinese exchanges that were the biggest problems are no longer around.
however this problem still persists in altcoins as the altcoin exchanges are still desperate for volume and need to encourage users to trade shitcoins that may otherwise be dead. but that still doesn't manipulate the market (the price) it only affects popularity and incentivize trading nothing more.

Wash trading is still happening and we can't fully stop that from happening. Even big exchanges are experiencing that kind of unnecessary situation. And sometimes, it is not the exchange that is doing the wash trading but their respective dev teams. This is one of their strategies that they can think of to attract traders and buyers of their coin. And with time, you will know how to spot those fake volumes.
No one can save you from this happening but you can only be vigilant for what may happen to your holdings and maybe prevent losses from your end.

[CryptoBry]

no trader likes fake volume, I think the fake volume is only to attract traders to join the exchange, I don't really know whether it affects the price of bitcoin, because what I know of exchanges with one another has only a little difference in price.

Fake data is a form of manipulations. In the world where our decisions can be based on available data, it is always critical that we are getting the correct ones otherwise our decision-power can be biased and subjected to wrong analysis. Right now, because cryptocurrency industry is not really that very much regulated, players or participants are prone to do many illegal things. And for as long as we are dealing with human beings, the weak side of human nature is getting into the way. We need more crypto-friendly regulations in place that can be working for all players, be they be exchanges or the users of the exchanges. And there should be penalties on placed so people can be extra careful, and we will not anymore be in the Wild Wild West era.

[slaman29]

I don't exactly understand OP's frustrations. Why don't you trade on legitimate exchanges which have organic volume. Of course there is a problem of fake volume but it's known which exchanges do that.
And fake volume is not used only to pump the price as OP suggests. It's even easier to crash the price by selling to your own buy offers so you keep the bitcoins in your hand while selling bellow the natural price.

Maybe because there is no such thing as only legitimate exhcanges which only have organic volume?

All exchanges have it, whether or not they "do" it. The only exchanges that do not allow for it is those that insist you KYC before you trade, and that is only OTC desks, which anyway won't show you the volumes.

[SquallLeonhart]

Who exactly are you trying to sew, a random guy you discovered that they were the ones manipulating the price or an exchange that was posting fake trading volumes? If it's just someone and not an exchange, what proof do you have that they were manipulating the price of Bitcoin? And by the way, don't forget you can take up such cases in every country, so you should be careful what you're going into. But, if it's an exchange, better because you will able to get proof against them.

But, my advice would be not to stress yourself much, Bitcoin is volatile and such will continue to happen. If you're not okay with it you can switch to stable coin and stop bothering yourself about the price of Bitcoin and altcoins that are unstable.

[Kyraishi]

So, from that wall of text, this is basically what your post is about people who abuse articles and try and trick people into buying/selling BTC in order to profit off them, and your also tired of the stigma and internet culture around "HODLing", etc?

It feels like your blowing everything out of proportion. Instead of people just joking around with crypto-terms, it's now become "internet bullying", and people are getting harassed to buy and sell BTC, which is just not true, to be honest.

Calm down. This isn't a problem.

[NeuroticFish]

Now when crypto goes up, some sociopath/psychopath tries to harass people with fake volume and fake buys.

Is the problem related to the trading bots? Those can be anyone's. As long as the exchange exposes an API for them, any user can have them. And with sites like Binance, I expect that you won't find the owners of them. Good luck with the lawsuit.
I don't see where's the harassment. One can buy or sell at market price or put an order and wait patiently to see it filled. Ah, the trading bots will always try to put a better price than yours? So what?