If we can see a country with 'Bitocin standard' monetary system

[yarlungzangbo]

It would work for a small rich tax haven like the Cayman Islands, which currently uses the dollar as their currency (even though they arn't part of the united states).

For these small countries having their own currency is out of the question, and because they are tax havens, they need a SOUND currency. So yes, if the dollar is in trouble, I can see these tax havens switch to bitcoin.

A lot of countries and territories are using Dollar or Euro as a national currency.

Example with the Euro. Countries currently using the euro: (https://www.thoughtco.com/what-countries-use-the-euro-1435138)

Andorra (not an EU member)
Monaco (not in the EU)
Montenegro (not in the EU)
San Marino (not in the EU)
Vatican City (not in the EU)

Territories that use the euro:

Akrotiri and Dhekelia (British territory)
French Southern and Antarctic Lands
Saint Bathelemy (overseas collectivity of France)
Saint Martin (overseas collectivity of France)
Saint Pierre and Miquelon (overseas collectivity of France)

But this is possible only with fiat currencies. You can't force a whole nation or rise a whole nation to the tech level required for mass crypto adoption.

IMO cryptos will remain as a niche currencies for at least few more years.

It's true. China's Hongkong doing 'USD standard' too.But it doesn't matter. A new monetary system need a new standard, the 'third world country' won't doing 'USD standard', 'gold standard' or 'xxx standard' is a good choice.

[yarlungzangbo]

Obviously, I would love to see such a country.
I also wish our prime minister would be Satoshi, lol.
Now maybe there is no country like where 'Bitcoin standard' monetary system, but China and many other countries have started to issue their own cryptocurrencies and I think that this trend will accelerate.

When some countries fiat become digital currency, it will circulating all over the world , what will be their value based? I would like to see some digital fiat doing a 'Bitcoin standard', then the other countries people will keep this 'fiat' , with no anxiety

[yarlungzangbo]

Gold standard was a bit different compared to anything technological, gold standard is based on gold and that is a natural resource that exists in the world without human connection, even if there were no humans on earth tomorrow, there will be gold, we don't create the gold.

Yet bitcoin is created by humans, we call them miners just like the gold miners but in reality they are not mining anything themselves, they do have mining equipment like asic or fpga or whatever which mines it automatically even while they sleep instead of them actually using a pickaxe or whatever.

So, if a country moves to a "bitcoin standard" and what not it would actually be a bit confusing because there would be corporations mining it out and making the standard go down eventually.

We need a standard for now, not for the future when we die.We don't need to worry about more people join in the bitcoin system, the maxmium supply will never change. And as more miner join in , we will see the more strong and stable  bitcoin system, that's perfect!

[yarlungzangbo]

To use something as "standard." It should be perceived to have a high and stable value. Gold historically can be used for this purpose, but who knows in the future people might be able to synthesize gold from cheaper materials or people find a new material that can better replace the gold --just for thought experiment by the way.

Back to the topic, In order to use Bitcoin as "standard," the majority of people should perceive Bitcoin as something extraordinary and valuable. It's a tough job for us to convince the masses, with all these forked shitcoins, scams, and manipulations. Maybe (just maybe) after more "testing" in the real world dynamics, if Bitcoin can stay healthy for several more decades, it will get easier to market Bitcoin. Then it naturally becomes standard.

History will prove to us



Keep going!

[Mometaskers]

It would work for a small rich tax haven like the Cayman Islands, which currently uses the dollar as their currency (even though they arn't part of the united states).

For these small countries having their own currency is out of the question, and because they are tax havens, they need a SOUND currency. So yes, if the dollar is in trouble, I can see these tax havens switch to bitcoin.

Yes, these small countries with practically no industry save for some tourism and fishing would be the first to go if the dollar collapses. Wasn't it Marshall Islands that was attempting to create its own cryptocurrency? If that was successful and the dollar plunges, it might provide a template for all these smaller island states to follow.

[avikz]

From the America history we can know that America was a Deflation economic system in few years. At that time USD was maintain and the prices was keeping a low average. This why we need a 'something standard' monetary system but not a credit credentials paper.

You can imaging that if some 'third world countries' become a 'Bitcoin standard' monetray system , and show the Bitcoin savings address, what will happen?

Bitcoin will not be issues over the maximum supply ,and nobody can make a 'fake bitcoin'. These country need to save x bitcoin to issue their monet, they will have a healty economics system, the other countries will happy to keep their money and want to trade will them.
People won't be afraid of inflation , and the prices will not go high in a long cycle times.

It is very very hard to happen for big economies like China, Russia or US! Because bitcoin is simply not capable of scaling up to accommodate the growing need of trillions of transactions! However, it may be possible for small economies like Malta, Marshall Island, Tuvalu, Kiribati etc. They have small population and even smaller economy. So bitcoin will be able to standardize their economies and work as a reserve currency for them!

But countries with billion and near billion population, can't even think of cryptos as standard! It will be disaster for them!

[yarlungzangbo]

It would work for a small rich tax haven like the Cayman Islands, which currently uses the dollar as their currency (even though they arn't part of the united states).

For these small countries having their own currency is out of the question, and because they are tax havens, they need a SOUND currency. So yes, if the dollar is in trouble, I can see these tax havens switch to bitcoin.

Yes, these small countries with practically no industry save for some tourism and fishing would be the first to go if the dollar collapses. Wasn't it Marshall Islands that was attempting to create its own cryptocurrency? If that was successful and the dollar plunges, it might provide a template for all these smaller island states to follow.

The countries without influence shouldn't make their own cryptocurrencies, the other country won't accpet these. They can try 'new standard' way, that will be more easier!

[yarlungzangbo]

From the America history we can know that America was a Deflation economic system in few years. At that time USD was maintain and the prices was keeping a low average. This why we need a 'something standard' monetary system but not a credit credentials paper.

You can imaging that if some 'third world countries' become a 'Bitcoin standard' monetray system , and show the Bitcoin savings address, what will happen?

Bitcoin will not be issues over the maximum supply ,and nobody can make a 'fake bitcoin'. These country need to save x bitcoin to issue their monet, they will have a healty economics system, the other countries will happy to keep their money and want to trade will them.
People won't be afraid of inflation , and the prices will not go high in a long cycle times.

It is very very hard to happen for big economies like China, Russia or US! Because bitcoin is simply not capable of scaling up to accommodate the growing need of trillions of transactions! However, it may be possible for small economies like Malta, Marshall Island, Tuvalu, Kiribati etc. They have small population and even smaller economy. So bitcoin will be able to standardize their economies and work as a reserve currency for them!

But countries with billion and near billion population, can't even think of cryptos as standard! It will be disaster for them!

Let us back to the subject, the fiat is controlled by goverment , and goverment can issue more and more new money, that's really disaster for people. We don't need a new currency to be used in any countries, all we need is a 'new standard'.

[drlukacs]

You can imaging that if some 'third world countries' become a 'Bitcoin standard' monetray system , and show the Bitcoin savings address, what will happen?

Bitcoin will not be issues over the maximum supply ,and nobody can make a 'fake bitcoin'. These country need to save x bitcoin to issue their monet, they will have a healty economics system, the other countries will happy to keep their money and want to trade will them.
People won't be afraid of inflation , and the prices will not go high in a long cycle times.

Besides these positive points, it is certainly not a stable and peaceful country. why? because no country wants to hold or trade currencies that are always highly volatile and manipulative. That is also the reason why many governments hate crypto in general and bitcoin in particular. they are afraid, they are afraid that people will detect this "decentralization" and then carry out money laundering or manipulating operations that the government cannot control. For the financial world, it's one of the worst things no country wants.

[jseverson]

-snip-

The fact is consumption makeing economic growth is a paradox.

Not necessarily. More money going around is better for the economy; businesses thrive, employees thrive, etc etc.

The lower price will make more consumption.

In the short term, yes, but if people know that their money multiplies by just sitting there, and all the while goods are constantly lowering in price, they'll only purchase the absolute minimum they could live with. This will choke out businesses at some point, halting economic activity. Here's a more detailed write up.

We could also take Bitcoin as an example, where people would rather hold than spend because they're incentivized to do so .

If you believe in Bitcoin you should know what did Hayek said but not traditional economy knowledge.Our world is full of goverment's lie now

All I can really say about that is that the Great Depression didn't correct itself; it was corrected by spurring spending. Don't get me wrong, I would like regulation to be kept to a minimum. I just don't think a deflationary currency is the answer, and neither does Hayek himself:

“I agree with Milton Friedman that once the Crash [of 1929] had occurred, the Federal Reserve System pursued a silly deflationary policy. I am not only against inflation but I am also against deflation. So, once again, a badly programmed monetary policy prolonged the depression.”

[stompix]

It would work for a small rich tax haven like the Cayman Islands, which currently uses the dollar as their currency (even though they arn't part of the united states).

For these small countries having their own currency is out of the question, and because they are tax havens, they need a SOUND currency. So yes, if the dollar is in trouble, I can see these tax havens switch to bitcoin.

A lot of countries and territories are using Dollar or Euro as a national currency.

Example with the Euro. Countries currently using the euro: (https://www.thoughtco.com/what-countries-use-the-euro-1435138)

Andorra (not an EU member)
Monaco (not in the EU)
Montenegro (not in the EU)
San Marino (not in the EU)
Vatican City (not in the EU)

Territories that use the euro:

Akrotiri and Dhekelia (British territory)
French Southern and Antarctic Lands
Saint Bathelemy (overseas collectivity of France)
Saint Martin (overseas collectivity of France)
Saint Pierre and Miquelon (overseas collectivity of France)

You realize you're not contradicting her but rather helping her point
Andorra (76.965) , Monaco (38.695) , Montenegro (622.359) , San Marino (33.400) , Vatican (1000)
All of them combined have lee people than one major city like Valencia?

And the territories....common
Akrotiri and Dhekelia is a military base with zero population, French Southern and Antarctic Lands has zero population, Saint Bathelemy has 9000,
Saint Martin has barely 40 000 and Saint Pierre and Miquelon barely 6000.

A single building in France has more than 10% of that.

No, you would have fared been far better by mentioning the currencies that are pegged to the euro through the ERM mechanism like Denmark.
Bulgaria also, not part of the ERM still has it's currency pegged to the euro.


Also, as a PS
I don't know how it sounds in other languages but for me "Bitocin" sounds like a cartoon name, funny as hell.
Probably something like Topolino in Italian.

[barbara44]

Uuhm, I don't think you're right. I like Bitcoin, and I have always thought the same until I realized that Bitcoin is not meant for that purpose. If countries should switch to making use of cryptocurrency I don't think it's going to magically make our economy better, make everyone rich and turn every country into paradise on earth.

As long as we continue with our evil ways and politicians remains the criminals they are, then nothing is changing, we are still going to continue to face the same problems we are facing these days. Is in our hands to decide whether things get better or not, Bitcoin is not a magical spell or whatsoever you think it is that's going to bring solutions to our problems. No matter what you do, there will always be those that don't want things to get better, they are the ones we need to tackle.

[dunfida]

From the America history we can know that America was a Deflation economic system in few years. At that time USD was maintain and the prices was keeping a low average. This why we need a 'something standard' monetary system but not a credit credentials paper.

You can imaging that if some 'third world countries' become a 'Bitcoin standard' monetray system , and show the Bitcoin savings address, what will happen?

Bitcoin will not be issues over the maximum supply ,and nobody can make a 'fake bitcoin'. These country need to save x bitcoin to issue their monet, they will have a healty economics system, the other countries will happy to keep their money and want to trade will them.
People won't be afraid of inflation , and the prices will not go high in a long cycle times.

It is very very hard to happen for big economies like China, Russia or US! Because bitcoin is simply not capable of scaling up to accommodate the growing need of trillions of transactions! However, it may be possible for small economies like Malta, Marshall Island, Tuvalu, Kiribati etc. They have small population and even smaller economy. So bitcoin will be able to standardize their economies and work as a reserve currency for them!

But countries with billion and near billion population, can't even think of cryptos as standard! It will be disaster for them!

Let us back to the subject, the fiat is controlled by goverment , and goverment can issue more and more new money, that's really disaster for people. We don't need a new currency to be used in any countries, all we need is a 'new standard'.

Being optimistic towards btc isnt really that bad but you do talk about implementing a system which wont really fit out nor would happen in reality.Yes, its capable on some sort of aspects
but it wont really be applicable if we do talk about to those countries which do have big economies.As long government do exist then theres nothing you can do if they would tend to
print more money.Come to think first on overall supply of btc alone, you can already presume that making this as a standard monetary system wont fit out.

[BigBoy89]

Snip - too long

You've got it out of the context of at least what I meant.

Montenegro, for example, is quite big, compared to the rest. Close to 700K, young and old. The national currency is Euro. In such a country you can't change fiat with any crypto just because you can't teach everybody to be tech-savvy. Mountain regions are like 17th-century villages (and that's perfect for relaxing).

[yarlungzangbo]

Uuhm, I don't think you're right. I like Bitcoin, and I have always thought the same until I realized that Bitcoin is not meant for that purpose. If countries should switch to making use of cryptocurrency I don't think it's going to magically make our economy better, make everyone rich and turn every country into paradise on earth.

As long as we continue with our evil ways and politicians remains the criminals they are, then nothing is changing, we are still going to continue to face the same problems we are facing these days. Is in our hands to decide whether things get better or not, Bitcoin is not a magical spell or whatsoever you think it is that's going to bring solutions to our problems. No matter what you do, there will always be those that don't want things to get better, they are the ones we need to tackle.

Yes, you are right. Bad people are every where! But using 'bitcoin standard' are limited to do bad things, we need progress but not a big change

[stompix]

You've got it out of the context of at least what I meant.

Montenegro, for example, is quite big, compared to the rest. Close to 700K, young and old. The national currency is Euro. In such a country you can't change fiat with any crypto just because you can't teach everybody to be tech-savvy. Mountain regions are like 17th-century villages (and that's perfect for relaxing).

Because you made a point trying to argue about the same point being wrong.

First, 622 000 is closer to 600k rather than 700k

Second, what's the point of mentioning Montenegro is using the euro as an argument about them not being able to switch to cryptos?
Why would Sweden be more advance in digitalization forever and not a small country in which internet coverage can easily achieve 100% and distances are shorter, remote villages are fewer if any (since you mentioned Vatican, lol).

Montenegro main trading partner is Serbia, a switch won't affect anything as conversion rates are already in place, for Denmark a switch to another currency that is not pegged to the euro would mean a headache no amounts of danish would cure but on the opposite side would be Iceland who has its own currency but trades a lot less in euros and is more advanced already in digital payments.

Oh, and btw...

In such a country you can't change fiat with any crypto just because you can't teach everybody to be tech-savvy.

I'm not sure our fellow montenegrin users will be happy with this one  

[Mometaskers]

It would work for a small rich tax haven like the Cayman Islands, which currently uses the dollar as their currency (even though they arn't part of the united states).

For these small countries having their own currency is out of the question, and because they are tax havens, they need a SOUND currency. So yes, if the dollar is in trouble, I can see these tax havens switch to bitcoin.

Yes, these small countries with practically no industry save for some tourism and fishing would be the first to go if the dollar collapses. Wasn't it Marshall Islands that was attempting to create its own cryptocurrency? If that was successful and the dollar plunges, it might provide a template for all these smaller island states to follow.

The countries without influence shouldn't make their own cryptocurrencies, the other country won't accpet these. They can try 'new standard' way, that will be more easier!

You said it yourself, they don't have influence. That they have their own crypto don't mean that they won't accept the standard. Marshall Islands for example has stated that they'd be using both their new currency and the dollar. The motivation for coming up with a crypto is mostly economic. It benefit from increased activity due faster and cheaper transaction and it also doesn't hurt to have multiple ways of receiving funding.

Like I said, these small island countries pretty much don't have industries. They can try to be tax havens but that still leaves them vulnerable. I can imagine these countries each coming up with their own crypto sovereign and enticing foreigners to "invest" in them.

[yarlungzangbo]

It would work for a small rich tax haven like the Cayman Islands, which currently uses the dollar as their currency (even though they arn't part of the united states).

For these small countries having their own currency is out of the question, and because they are tax havens, they need a SOUND currency. So yes, if the dollar is in trouble, I can see these tax havens switch to bitcoin.

Yes, these small countries with practically no industry save for some tourism and fishing would be the first to go if the dollar collapses. Wasn't it Marshall Islands that was attempting to create its own cryptocurrency? If that was successful and the dollar plunges, it might provide a template for all these smaller island states to follow.

The countries without influence shouldn't make their own cryptocurrencies, the other country won't accpet these. They can try 'new standard' way, that will be more easier!

You said it yourself, they don't have influence. That they have their own crypto don't mean that they won't accept the standard. Marshall Islands for example has stated that they'd be using both their new currency and the dollar. The motivation for coming up with a crypto is mostly economic. It benefit from increased activity due faster and cheaper transaction and it also doesn't hurt to have multiple ways of receiving funding.

Like I said, these small island countries pretty much don't have industries. They can try to be tax havens but that still leaves them vulnerable. I can imagine these countries each coming up with their own crypto sovereign and enticing foreigners to "invest" in them.

It's so easy for any country to publish their own cryptocurrency, but we can't say this kind of cryptocurrency are valueable just according to they are tax havens. How about the Petro in Venezuela, people still don't like it, and we can't see any value from this cryptocurrency. A new fiat using 'bitcoin standard' may can make a stable economy system, and we don't want to invest in any kind of fiat, we just want to hold or use it, that's why we don't need a new cryptocurrency.

[yarlungzangbo]

From the America history we can know that America was a Deflation economic system in few years. At that time USD was maintain and the prices was keeping a low average. This why we need a 'something standard' monetary system but not a credit credentials paper.

You can imaging that if some 'third world countries' become a 'Bitcoin standard' monetray system , and show the Bitcoin savings address, what will happen?

Bitcoin will not be issues over the maximum supply ,and nobody can make a 'fake bitcoin'. These country need to save x bitcoin to issue their monet, they will have a healty economics system, the other countries will happy to keep their money and want to trade will them.
People won't be afraid of inflation , and the prices will not go high in a long cycle times.

It is very very hard to happen for big economies like China, Russia or US! Because bitcoin is simply not capable of scaling up to accommodate the growing need of trillions of transactions! However, it may be possible for small economies like Malta, Marshall Island, Tuvalu, Kiribati etc. They have small population and even smaller economy. So bitcoin will be able to standardize their economies and work as a reserve currency for them!

But countries with billion and near billion population, can't even think of cryptos as standard! It will be disaster for them!

Let us back to the subject, the fiat is controlled by goverment , and goverment can issue more and more new money, that's really disaster for people. We don't need a new currency to be used in any countries, all we need is a 'new standard'.

Being optimistic towards btc isnt really that bad but you do talk about implementing a system which wont really fit out nor would happen in reality.Yes, its capable on some sort of aspects
but it wont really be applicable if we do talk about to those countries which do have big economies.As long government do exist then theres nothing you can do if they would tend to
print more money.Come to think first on overall supply of btc alone, you can already presume that making this as a standard monetary system wont fit out.

Yes, i always talking about 'the third world country' to using 'bitcoin stantdard' , please read my words again.
We don't need to worry about the maxmium supply of bitcoin, we are lucky because satoshi gave us a decimal point splited bitcoin. More countries come to buy bitcoin will make single bitcoin more valueable.

[maman567]

You can imaging that if some 'third world countries' become a 'Bitcoin standard' monetray system , and show the Bitcoin savings address, what will happen?

Bitcoin will not be issues over the maximum supply ,and nobody can make a 'fake bitcoin'. These country need to save x bitcoin to issue their monet, they will have a healty economics system, the other countries will happy to keep their money and want to trade will them.
People won't be afraid of inflation , and the prices will not go high in a long cycle times.

Besides these positive points, it is certainly not a stable and peaceful country. why? because no country wants to hold or trade currencies that are always highly volatile and manipulative. That is also the reason why many governments hate crypto in general and bitcoin in particular. they are afraid, they are afraid that people will detect this "decentralization" and then carry out money laundering or manipulating operations that the government cannot control. For the financial world, it's one of the worst things no country wants.

American have dominance economic from other countries and make their money value have higher price, maybe when their country not have many power full make their money value will be down, but if many countries want to use bitcoin I think USD of american money left the name and many people or companies want to accept bitcoin as currency payment.