[2019-11-27] 2020 Banks in Germany to offer Crypto Sale and Storage

[aoluain]

With the 4th EU money laundering directive banks in Germany will be
able to offer their customers crypto sales and storage, that means Bitcoin.

I saw it here today > https://www.coindesk.com/german-banks-allowed-to-sell-and-custody-crypto-assets-from-2020-report

I checked it out over on handlesblat.com > https://www.handelsblatt.com/finanzen/maerkte/devisen-rohstoffe/kryptowaehrungen-neues-geldwaeschegesetz-banken-duerfen-bitcoin-verwahren/25276392.html

Google Translate >

Frankfurt A new business area could open up for German banks from 2020: the sale and custody of Bitcoin and other crypto currencies. So far almost no institute offers its customers virtual assets. This is likely to change with the planned law implementing the fourth EU money laundering directive. The bill passed by the Bundestag provides for corresponding relief and the approval of the Länder for the new regulation is expected.

The final bill goes well beyond the previous planning. So he proposes the deletion of the so-called separation bid, which was still in the first version. Thus, the re-regulated crypto-surplus transaction - ie the storage of Bitcoin and Co. - should not have been offered from the same legal entity as other regulated banking transactions. Banks should have had recourse to external custodians or special subsidiaries.

This is no longer necessary: ​​starting in 2020, financial institutions will be able to offer their customers online banking virtually at the push of a button, as well as classic securities such as stocks and bonds, as well as crypto currencies. The law also provides for further relief, such as extended application deadlines for the necessary license.

Industry representatives were pleased. Sven Hildebrandt, head of the consulting firm DLC, says: "Germany is well on its way to becoming a crypto-heaven. The German legislator is playing a pioneering role in the regulation of crypto-truths. "

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[mirrasel]

So, do you think Germany will be the next crypto hub?

[DooMAD]

Am I the only one not excited by this?  People should be responsible for their own wallets, because not having to rely on third parties is one of the primary benefits of Bitcoin.  A small silver lining is that it at least gives us the chance to have that conversation with anyone who decides to take up this service from the banks and point out why maintaining control over your own funds is better. 

But I'm fully expecting the positive headlines about this will be short-lived.  These banks are almost certainly going to make the same mistakes so many exchanges have made, allowing a massive security breach and losing the funds.  That's just what naturally happens when a large group of customers need access to a single pool of centrally stored cryptocurrency.  The only way I could ever see it being secure is if they don't actually allow customers to withdraw cryptocurrency directly, which would make it almost useless.  The banks would then have full control over how, where and when you can spend those funds.  That would only bolster the argument about how you need to be in control of your own funds to see any tangible benefits.

We should categorically not be enthusiastic about commercial banks attempting to turn themselves into the gatekeepers of this system.  That's not how any of this is supposed to work.

[Lucius]

With the 4th EU money laundering directive banks in Germany will be
able to offer their customers crypto sales and storage, that means Bitcoin.

4AML directive is something that is some 2 years old, and I think we are now seeing some pre effects of 5 AML directive which comes into force early next year. This directive is from July 2018, but EU countries have up to 18 months to adjust their national laws. Of course, part of the directives also applies to cryptocurrency, and we see some new business opportunities for banks. The question is whether they will be interested to get involved in the business with crypto, or it will remain a mere possibility?

Am I the only one not excited by this?  People should be responsible for their own wallets, because not having to rely on third parties is one of the primary benefits of Bitcoin. 

I'm not overly excited about this news, as I said before, the question is whether banks will offer such services at all. And I also agree that one of the primary goals of Bitcoin is for everyone to be their own bank and that such things actually undermine the very idea of decentralized currency. If someone buys BTC and leave it in the bank for safekeeping, they face multiple risks, the same as with any exchange or online wallet. But people still strive for simplicity and shifting responsibility to someone else, in this case, banks.

[Harlot]

Am I the only one not excited by this?  People should be responsible for their own wallets, because not having to rely on third parties is one of the primary benefits of Bitcoin.  A small silver lining is that it at least gives us the chance to have that conversation with anyone who decides to take up this service from the banks and point out why maintaining control over your own funds is better. 

I won't trust banks in holding my cryptocurrency as well but the way I see it there is more benefit from it rather than the negative things surrounding it. The way I see it is that if we have banks supporting Bitcoin then it will not only be a good publicity but also beneficial for everyone including the businesses who are looking for a big support for them to accept crypto. With us having banks to lead the way I think this would be clearly the start of mass adoption.

[LeGaulois]

@DooMAD @Harlot

To not trust the banks to store our coins, but that's ok if it's fiats, see yourselves, we all still do it :/

I think the same but I feel me hypocrite. It's like saying that I don't trust my bank to deposit USD but if it's EUR that's fine. (that's busllshit)
We can't even say "we have no choice to store our cash in banks" as argument because it's not even true., we're free to cashout everything and keep it under the bed, but we don't.

Why? Simply because we feel somehow "safe", we have certain guarantees for example. If these same guarantees could be applied to cryptos, it would change a lot for the mass adoption.

[DooMAD]

we're free to cashout everything and keep it under the bed, but we don't.

That's just it, though.  I'm not convinced customers will have that option when banks offer this "service".  It won't be secure enough if they operate the same way exchanges do, plus they'll want to make it idiot-proof so they don't have to deal with complaints from people who managed to lose their funds doing something stupid, so they'll play gatekeeper.  Like how share dealing often works.  You generally don't have direct access to the shares to do as you wish, you have to contact your share dealer with your instructions and they make the transactions on your behalf.  Then the fiat gets deposited to/withdrawn from your account accordingly (minus their cut). 

[aoluain]

I think we are all singing from the same hymn sheet!

I posted this really to show that the stigma attached to BTC by
a lot of financial institutions is evaporating and this is another
step in the process.

We know that futures are being offered and the fact that banks
in Germany can openly deal with BTC is a positive thing generally
speaking.

I know everyone here including myself will not entrust our crypto
with banks but there are those out there who will want to get into
crypto as an asset to their investment portfolio and who will not
want to get involved in the technicalities of owning it.

[cynical]

At first they ignore us
Then they belittle us
Then they fight us
Now they join us

[Harlot]

@DooMAD @Harlot

To not trust the banks to store our coins, but that's ok if it's fiats, see yourselves, we all still do it :/

I think the same but I feel me hypocrite. It's like saying that I don't trust my bank to deposit USD but if it's EUR that's fine. (that's busllshit)
We can't even say "we have no choice to store our cash in banks" as argument because it's not even true., we're free to cashout everything and keep it under the bed, but we don't.

Why? Simply because we feel somehow "safe", we have certain guarantees for example. If these same guarantees could be applied to cryptos, it would change a lot for the mass adoption.

I think we are in a better position now especially that us have discovered cold storage wallets and hardware wallets first rather than having an idea that banks can store crypto for you. So it would really be less likely for us especially the one who have been here for a while to use banks as means of storage. And I really don't see banks as means of storage but for other things such as using their Visa debit/credit cards and also as a destination for crypto sold in Fiat. I mostly have my money around investments other than cryptos.

[1Referee]

At first they ignore us
Then they belittle us
Then they fight us
Now they join us

Bitcoiners and cryptocoiners in general are too sensitive. While it may seem like so, I do not think they are actually fighting us, they just need to trash talk it long enough to grant themselves a better entry point. Remember, Bitcoin has been adopted by the people before institutions sold them their bags, because that's how it usually goes in the financial market.

Be strong and smart enough to not sell them anything. Keep stacking satoshis. The closer we are to the 200WMA (currently at $4950), the better your entry point is.

[hv_]

we're free to cashout everything and keep it under the bed, but we don't.

That's just it, though.  I'm not convinced customers will have that option when banks offer this "service".  It won't be secure enough if they operate the same way exchanges do, plus they'll want to make it idiot-proof so they don't have to deal with complaints from people who managed to lose their funds doing something stupid, so they'll play gatekeeper.  Like how share dealing often works.  You generally don't have direct access to the shares to do as you wish, you have to contact your share dealer with your instructions and they make the transactions on your behalf.  Then the fiat gets deposited to/withdrawn from your account accordingly (minus their cut). 

We do not have high grade , high regulated exchanges yet - cannot compare to that what the NSYE, XETRA, LSE do, Same holds for Banks.

What we call crypto exch are just bloody wild Casino bokers yet

[1Referee]

We do not have high grade , high regulated exchanges yet - cannot compare to that what the NSYE, XETRA, LSE do, Same holds for Banks.

Bakkt. CME. TD-Ameritrade. Fidelity is close to launching an exchanges as well. All highly regulated platforms. Coinbase isn't on that level, but they don't have to be. They have been operating with the highest standards for years and that allowed them to grow out to the monster they are today.

What we call crypto exch are just bloody wild Casino bokers yet

Can you also speak for yourself or do you have to cough up CSW's words and phrases in almost every one of your sentences?

The exchanges you refer to as casino brokers have served people well for years. Unfortunately, they are decreasing in number rapidly because of compliance bs.

[ABCbits]

he only way I could ever see it being secure is if they don't actually allow customers to withdraw cryptocurrency directly, which would make it almost useless.  The banks would then have full control over how, where and when you can spend those funds.  That would only bolster the argument about how you need to be in control of your own funds to see any tangible benefits.

Your statement reminds me about this news : Mastercard Wins Patent for “Managing Fractional Reserves of Blockchain Currency”

Now they join us

I doubt this about this part. Custodial wallet/storage defeats the purpose of Bitcoin, it's no different from storing your fiat or goods (e.g. gold, jewelry) to banks.

[DooMAD]

The only way I could ever see it being secure is if they don't actually allow customers to withdraw cryptocurrency directly, which would make it almost useless.  The banks would then have full control over how, where and when you can spend those funds.  That would only bolster the argument about how you need to be in control of your own funds to see any tangible benefits.

Your statement reminds me about this news : Mastercard Wins Patent for “Managing Fractional Reserves of Blockchain Currency”

Ah, brilliant, so my suspicions are somewhat grounded in reality.  I do understand the beast, heh.    

Yep, all things considered, I'm now more confident than before in stating that banks offering crypto "services" won't bear any resemblance to how the exchanges do it.  Every conceivable safeguard will be in place to ensure that customers get nowhere near the crypto.  No touchy!  You'll relay your instructions to the bank, the bank will then make the transactions -if- they approve.  Wholly antithetical to the founding principles of Bitcoin.

[Harlot]

That's just it, though.  I'm not convinced customers will have that option when banks offer this "service".  It won't be secure enough if they operate the same way exchanges do, plus they'll want to make it idiot-proof so they don't have to deal with complaints from people who managed to lose their funds doing something stupid, so they'll play gatekeeper.  Like how share dealing often works.  You generally don't have direct access to the shares to do as you wish, you have to contact your share dealer with your instructions and they make the transactions on your behalf.  Then the fiat gets deposited to/withdrawn from your account accordingly (minus their cut). 

We do not have high grade , high regulated exchanges yet - cannot compare to that what the NSYE, XETRA, LSE do, Same holds for Banks.

What we call crypto exch are just bloody wild Casino bokers yet

And you would like your crypto to be exchange in a bank? Trust me this will require more than a KYC and I doubt there rates will be better since they are a bank. Cryptocurrency is about decentralized power and using banks for most of your transaction eliminates it. Yes sure I'm happy that banks are paving the way for Germany but I wouldn't patronize their services mainly because I will lose the power to control my capital, I'm just happy how it will support the mass adoption I am looking for and that's it.

[hv_]

That's just it, though.  I'm not convinced customers will have that option when banks offer this "service".  It won't be secure enough if they operate the same way exchanges do, plus they'll want to make it idiot-proof so they don't have to deal with complaints from people who managed to lose their funds doing something stupid, so they'll play gatekeeper.  Like how share dealing often works.  You generally don't have direct access to the shares to do as you wish, you have to contact your share dealer with your instructions and they make the transactions on your behalf.  Then the fiat gets deposited to/withdrawn from your account accordingly (minus their cut). 

We do not have high grade , high regulated exchanges yet - cannot compare to that what the NSYE, XETRA, LSE do, Same holds for Banks.

What we call crypto exch are just bloody wild Casino bokers yet

And you would like your crypto to be exchange in a bank? Trust me this will require more than a KYC and I doubt there rates will be better since they are a bank. Cryptocurrency is about decentralized power and using banks for most of your transaction eliminates it. Yes sure I'm happy that banks are paving the way for Germany but I wouldn't patronize their services mainly because I will lose the power to control my capital, I'm just happy how it will support the mass adoption I am looking for and that's it.

It s always about the amounts. U will not put millions under ur home carpet on ur own risk.

Not even a nerd will.

Lunchmoney fine