Who are owners of this forum? (Bounty Manager or Users?)

[Tom Bombadil]

The forum has a very basic problem and contradiction.
Management says "you can open alternative accounts, this way you can express yourself better"
If the identity of your account is known, you cannot express yourself freely.
So it makes sense to open an alternative account. For free thoughts.

But, Bounty manager and some DT member says, "You can't use different accounts."
That's exactly where all the fights start.
If alt-account is allowed in this forum, then I should be able to use the account as I wish.
Scam or theft is something different. We need to catch these.
But shouldn't we be able to use an account that we developed with own ideas as we wish?

Can we discuss this? Only some DT Members form ethical rules in their own judgment.
With this trend, the forum will gradually shrink.
Distinguished writers are excluded, accused, pushed out.
I think campaigns that do not accept Forum rules should be thrown out.
This forum is not created for ads in the signature.
This forum was created for free thought and quality articles.

Let's not forget the philosophy that Satoshi left us.
Free thought, Decentralization, Personal privacy.

I just wanted to write my thoughts.
I want to start a philosophical discussion. (Not for personal discussion)
Please don't be mad at me. I'm sorry for my bad english.

------------

But there is a constant fight in the forum.
Reason for the fight is always same: alt-accounts and bounty.
Therefore, the most popular sections: Meta and Reputation.
The fights are tiring and annoying.

Forum rules clearly say "You can use different accounts". Even this is encouraged.
In this case, it is ethical to participate in signature campaigns on different accounts.
In this case, participating in signature campaigns on different accounts is not "abuse".

If I bring up a topic. Can I announce my own rules?
* Swear/curses to each other
* Share nude photos
* Do plagiarism

That would be ridiculous, wouldn't it? Because the forum has rules.

Additional:
The forum rules say "you can use alternative accounts".
Rules don't say, "You can't join the same ad campaign."
So you can use your account as you like.
The purpose of advertising campaigns is to show more people.
Researching people like the police is not the goal.

The missing rule in Bounty is:
"You must earn xx merits in the last 120 days"
If you are looking for quality in the forum, the merit system was made for this.
If conditions are changed appropriately, advertising campaigns also achieve their goal.
After writing quality articles for years, an account can join any campaign.
Why are you fighting so much for this? Merit is very difficult and hard to win.

Why isn't it considered ethical to participate in the same ad campaign?
Whose ethical judgments will we accept? There is no such jurisdiction in the forum rules.
This is not fraud. This situation does not deserve negative trust.
Because the rules fit this situation. We're just discussing ethically.

You have written many valuable comments. My goal is not a bad thing. It's just an ethical-philosophical discussion.

[1714873490]

1714873490

[1714873490]

1714873490

[AB de Royse777]

~snip~
But, Bounty manager and some DT member says, "You can't use different accounts."

You got wrong assumption.

You can not use different accounts in the same bounty or signature campaign if the bounty manager strictly have this in his rules otherwise you are okay with multi accounts.

So the forum management and none of the members are not stopping you to have more than one accounts.

Rules are here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0
And I did not find anything about not joining in the same campaign yet.

[mindrust]

There is a difference.

You can use multiple accounts to express your opinions.

You can't use multiple accounts to abuse signature campaigns/giveaways/bounty campaigns. This is not a forum rule. It will not result in a ban if you do so but you won't be able to join the campaigns anymore with your known alts.

Joining campaigns with multiple accounts is stealing. You are stealing from the other legit users and nobody wants to deal with thieves.

You can't use ANY accounts once you get banned. (Only meta is allowed)

[Blacknavy]

If a person can express himself more easily by using another account, there is no problem to use more than one account.

However, If you use more than one account, there may be many people who want to give you a red trust due to their own absurd rules.

[yahoo62278]

Reading the particular rules of a bounty as stated by Royse777 will let you know if you are able to use multiple accounts in that bounty. Noone is saying do not have multiple accounts. Managers just have rules that they expect everyone to follow.

Some managers allow multiple accounts, some don't. I think most bitcoin paying signature campaigns do not allow a user to have multiple accounts in a campaign. Bounties are where that rule is much different. Some allow multiple twitter accounts, some allow multiple facebook accounts, and some allow multiple accounts in anything they are paying a bounty for. It's all about reading the rules.

This also goes both ways when it comes to the scambusters. They need to read the rules of a bounty before outing users that used multiple accounts and trying to get them tagged.

[AicecreaME]

To answer your question, Satoshi owns this forum, though he's not active anymore (is he?) after the year 2009.

And about the thing of having alt accounts, it is strictly prohibited in all of the campaigns here in this forum. Bounty managers and DTs are just maintaining this forum's cleanliness and effectiveness, they don't own it.

[Tom Bombadil]

But there is a constant fight in the forum.
Reason for the fight is always same: alt-accounts and bounty.
Therefore, the most popular sections: Meta and Reputation.
The fights are tiring and annoying.

Forum rules clearly say "You can use different accounts". Even this is encouraged.
In this case, it is ethical to participate in signature campaigns on different accounts.
In this case, participating in signature campaigns on different accounts is not "abuse".

If I bring up a topic. Can I announce my own rules?
* Swear to each other
* Share nude photos
* Do plagiarism

That would be ridiculous, wouldn't it? Because the forum has rules.

Thanks for your comment.
Just I think...

[o_e_l_e_o]

Alt accounts are fine and permitted by the rules:

18. Having multiple accounts and account sales are allowed, but account sales are discouraged.

Lots of people have known alt accounts and don't get red trust. Lots of very established members have alt accounts. Even theymos has an alt account: theymos_away. So does global moderator hilariousandco.

People who get red trust on alt accounts are either because they are using multiple alts to break the rules of some bounty campaigns, or because they are a scammer using an alt account to try to evade red trust.

Forum rules clearly say "You can use different accounts". Even this is encouraged.
In this case, it is ethical to participate in signature campaigns on different accounts.

The forum rules are not directly linked to red trust - you will be banned for breaking a forum rule, but you won't be banned for breaking a signature campaign rule. Similarly, there are plenty of things which are not forum rules which you will receive red trust for. There's nothing in the forum rules regarding scamming, and yet it's widely accepted that you will receive red trust for doing so.

Some signature campaigns allow alt accounts and some do not. If you enroll alt accounts in one that does not then you are breaking their rules and liable for red trust. You won't be banned for it, though, because it's not against the forum rules.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

The OP's post here makes my head spin, it's so hard to understand.

Yeah, it's not against the rules to have alt accounts.  Even some DT members do, and it's no secret and there isn't any forum drama or anything about that fact.  The problem is when members use alt accounts to enroll in the same bounties or campaigns, or if alt accounts are all posting in the same thread, because that becomes a spam issue--and I've seen that recently in a thread.

The fights are tiring and annoying.

Then don't read them.  You'll just become tired and annoyed.

Forum rules clearly say "You can use different accounts". Even this is encouraged.
In this case, it is ethical to participate in signature campaigns on different accounts.
In this case, participating in signature campaigns on different accounts is not "abuse".

The forum rules don't say anything about campaigns.  You made that leap yourself. 

It's not "ethical" to enroll multiple accounts in one campaign or bounty.  It's selfish, because you're taking up spots that could go to some other member, plus it's probably against the rules of the campaign anyway.  It is abuse, and you're not going to change anybody's mind with your argument.

[krishnaverma]

If you are using multiple profile to abuse signature campaigns, you are depriving other deserving members from being a part of such a campaign. All the members should have equal chances and we should try to include as many members as possible for availing the benefits of higher ranks.

Also, with the new merit requirements, having multiple profiles is itself useless as it will be hard to manage and grow multiple accounts.

[taufik123]

The OP seems to be clueless and cannot distinguish between Forum rules and Bounty rules.
Forum rules allow to have an alt account, even theymos have an alt account.
Whereas bounty rules do not allow to join campaigns with alt accounts held by the same person, this violates the bounty campaign rules.

Even Royse777, yahooo62278 (as Senior Bounty Manager) and o_e_l_e_o have said the same thing that bounty campaigns using multiple accounts
are strictly prohibited and if violated they will be given a Red Trust.

-snip-You can not use different accounts in the same bounty or signature campaign if the bounty manager strictly have this in his rules -snip-

-snip- I think most bitcoin paying signature campaigns do not allow a user to have multiple accounts in a campaign. -snip-

-snip- People who get red trust on alt accounts are either because they are using multiple alts to break the rules of some bounty campaigns, or because they are a scammer using an alt account to try to evade red trust. -snip-

This forum does not narrow your space to express your imagination and thoughts,
but there are certain rules that you must understand and you can distinguish.

[Coyster]

If you are using multiple profile to abuse signature campaigns, you are depriving other deserving members from being a part of such a campaign.

It is also a sign of greed trying to add to your pay on the same bounty campaign. If you have alt accounts, you can enroll them in different bounties, I do not think that is against the rules, if your posts on the two accounts are quality posts, then you should be able to get them both on different bounties at the same time. Being on the same bounty with more than one account is cheeky/cunny that's why the accounts get red tagged for it.

Let's not forget the philosophy that Satoshi left us.
Free thought, Decentralization, Personal privacy.

I do not see what this has to do with your post, Just read the rules next time and digest them properly.

[The Cryptovator]

Just make it simple,
No one will ban your account if you create multiple accounts by following forum rules. Such as ban evasion, you are not allowed to create multiple accounts if your one account got ban.

No one will tag if you not involved with abuse, if your one account tagged then all of your alt account will tagged if in case revealed with enough evidence. You will get tag if you don't follow campaign rules about multiple accounts. If managers do not allow multiple accounts then don't abuse, otherwise you will get tag.

[LTU_btc]

OP, you should use some common sense. Ok, forum rules allows to have multiple account. And nobody will say anything to you as long as you're not using it for bad purposes.
But every campaign has it own rules (which doesn't goes against forum rules). And ask yourself, why bounty managers should accept multiple aaccounts? It simply will make their campaign less effective and it's not good for advertiser.
Also, forum rules says that scams aren't moderated. So, following your logic, DT members don't have right to paint scammers with red trust.

[terizla]

Forum rules and bounty rules is difference. This forum have their rules. Bounty Manager have their own rules too. You can't equate the two. Having multiple account are allowed, but you can't make all your account for your greedy to join bounty.

[amishmanish]

In the intial post, OP wanted a philosophical discussion. Having alt-accounts in the forum can be in two ways:

1. Known Alts: Like Loyce/ Loyce_mobile
2. Unknown Alts: This is for those cases when, like you said in the beginning, you want to express something that you otherwise would not.

The unknown alts territory is a lot murkier. If someone wants to start trade dealings here but do not want them to be influenced by their previous presence, they may go for an Alt account, which is reasonable as long as they do not scam.

The fight is about two type of Alt-accounts. First are those who want to enroll in the "same" signature campaigns multiple times. These are not allowed as per bounty rules. Second type are those who make alt-accounts to support themselves in an ongoing argument. These are generally allegations when a recently created nesbie accounts starts using colorful/ abusive language.

There is no way to stop them and the forum doesn't try to do that. It becomes apparent to the involved parties after a certain time. Yet, when the ability to have alternate accounts becomes a business tool, then problems arise. Any discussions on Alts will remain unfulfilled without mentioning @Quickseller. The guy is a bit of an enigma and has had allegations of running Alt account networks for a long time.
I think @Suchmoon has a bit of a research on this because he had this declared in his Signature for a long time. Quickseller seems to have tempered a bit since then. He was on fire back during the ICO craze going up against Lauda et al.

Its quite a saga.

[o_e_l_e_o]

The unknown alts territory is a lot murkier. If someone wants to start trade dealings here but do not want them to be influenced by their previous presence, they may go for an Alt account, which is reasonable as long as they do not scam.

I'm struggling to envision a scenario where a brand new account is going to be easier to trade from than an established account, unless the established account is red trusted, in which case making an alt account to avoid the red trust is completely unethical.

The guy is a bit of an enigma and has had allegations of running Alt account networks for a long time.

I'm not sure I'd call them allegations when they have been definitively proven. I'm also not sure I'd say he's tempered, he's just moved most of his activity to another alt account.

[Findingnemo]

I think campaigns that do not accept Forum rules should be thrown out.

So you are saying that campaigns should allow multiple accounts and the one who doesn't follow should be banned from this forum?

Bounty rules were set by the bounty managers because they are the managers but they can't be considered as forum owners just because they are setting bounty. Bounty is just a part of this forum.

[Tom Bombadil]

But there is a constant fight in the forum.
Reason for the fight is always same: alt-accounts and bounty.
Therefore, the most popular sections: Meta and Reputation.
The fights are tiring and annoying.

Forum rules clearly say "You can use different accounts". Even this is encouraged.
In this case, it is ethical to participate in signature campaigns on different accounts.
In this case, participating in signature campaigns on different accounts is not "abuse".

If I bring up a topic. Can I announce my own rules?
* Swear to each other
* Share nude photos
* Do plagiarism

That would be ridiculous, wouldn't it? Because the forum has rules.

Thanks for your comment.
Just I think...

Additional:
The forum rules say "you can use alternative accounts".
Rules don't say, "You can't join the same ad campaign."
So you can use your account as you like.
The purpose of advertising campaigns is to show more people.
Researching people like the police is not the goal.

The missing rule in Bounty is:
"You must earn xx merits in the last 120 days"
If you are looking for quality in the forum, the merit system was made for this.
If conditions are changed appropriately, advertising campaigns also achieve their goal.
After writing quality articles for years, an account can join any campaign.
Why are you fighting so much for this? Merit is very difficult and hard to win.

Why isn't it considered ethical to participate in the same ad campaign?
Whose ethical judgments will we accept? There is no such jurisdiction in the forum rules.
This is not fraud. This situation does not deserve negative trust.
Because the rules fit this situation. We're just discussing ethically.

You have written many valuable comments. My goal is not a bad thing. It's just an ethical-philosophical discussion.

[shield132]

From your post it looks like this forum is a desert for the mind, void of emotions and barren of thoughts but in reality it's not like that. I am posting what I want and where I want and was always doing that, otherwise tell me any idea why to post? Signature campaigns are the result of freedom that is on this forum.
But when someone creates sig campaign and in requirement state that you mustn't have alt account, then what's wrong with it? They run campaign with their own rules, it's not their duty to meet your requirements but if you want to be in their campaign or bounty or etc, you have to meet their requirement. Is there any job that asks you what you want to do and how much salary do you want to get in doing particular thing that you wish to do? I think no.
Don't join sig and you'll be 100% free with as many alt accounts as you wish. I have no idea why these people want to dramatize normal things.