Greeks face heavy fines if they don't spend 30% of their income electronically

[exstasie]

Rampant is not really accurate. It's more like a national sport or some sort of religious movement.
Greeks have been among the first ones to go bankrupt in human history, they will be probably the last.
They hate the taxman but at the same time they love getting freebies, they pay zero in taxes but everybody was enjoying benefits from the government, just imagine the term "14th wage". Yeah, they were getting 14th wages a year!

I've been to Greece a couple of times, even before the euro and the crisis, receipts were nonexistent, you would get your restaurant bill on a piece of paper handwritten, asking to pay with a card, the machine is broken, asking for a receipt, the machine is broken.

Yeah, the measure is not right, its nor normal but neither is that country.
Either way, nothing is going to save them, the whole country and system is flawed from birth.

So the Greeks are just genetically predisposed to tax evasion?

What about the notion that tax rates are too high, to the point that businesses and labor are opting for the black market?

Few problems are more ingrained, or harder to combat, than the shadow economy, which appears to be growing again as new austerity measures compel once law-abiding Greeks to go off the books. Greece’s black market is estimated at 20 to 25 percent of the gross domestic product, as more people have stopped reporting their income to avoid paying taxes that, by some estimates, have risen to 70 percent of an individual’s gross income.

“The heart of the matter for an ever-rising number of citizens and businesses is that they simply do not have the financial resources anymore to meet their rising tax obligations,” said Jens Bastian, an economist and a member of a team of European Union specialists that helped supervise the country’s earlier bailouts.

Short on alternatives, he said, “many are falling back into the gray economy.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/18/world/europe/greece-bailout-black-market.html

If tax rates like that are possible, it's no wonder 1/4 of the GDP is black market. Up to 45% income tax, up to 10% "solidarity" tax, 16% employee payroll tax, not to mention VAT, real property tax, etc.

As an American, I feel fleeced by the IRS but there is no comparison to Greece. I would dodge taxes too if I lived there.

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[stompix]

So the Greeks are just genetically predisposed to tax evasion?

Not genetically but their history has forced them to do so.
Also, if you want to hear something funny, although greeks liked evading taxes, the ottoman empire used greek to collect taxes and rules the Balkans, the so-called phanariots and they were damn good at transforming coal into gold.

If tax rates like that are possible, it's no wonder 1/4 of the GDP is black market. Up to 45% income tax, up to 10% "solidarity" tax, 16% employee payroll tax, not to mention VAT, real property tax, etc.
As an American, I feel fleeced by the IRS but there is no comparison to Greece. I would dodge taxes too if I lived there.

Let me see.
National tax, Municipal tax, Church tax, 27% tax on dividends, 25% VAT, (in Greece is 24%), tax on land on buildings...you would think the black market is also rampant here. Oh, forgot to add, 180% tax on cars? 180%!!!
Yet, everyone is saying how Denmark is such a nice country to live in.

If the government in Greece would spend the money the same way it would be a different story.

[yulionoo]

I have also read the news that several countries have also issued policies to limit and reduce the use of fiat money. and maybe this policy will encourage the government to also legalize cryptocurency as an alternative means of payment.
and I agree with the opinion that maybe the Greek government issued the policy to be able to take tax automatically from the accounts of its citizens so that no one will be in arrears to pay taxes.

[Cherylstar86]

I have also read the news that several countries have also issued policies to limit and reduce the use of fiat money. and maybe this policy will encourage the government to also legalize cryptocurency as an alternative means of payment.
and I agree with the opinion that maybe the Greek government issued the policy to be able to take tax automatically from the accounts of its citizens so that no one will be in arrears to pay taxes.

Every country has their own way of rules and regulations. Well, we have nothing to do about that since we just an ordinary people here in our society. Nowadays, I don't see any changes in our place but on that kind of situation as they limit and reduce fiat is somehow not a good idea in which fiat is the best choice of doing a payment transaction.

[Dart18]

The heck!

This is something new for a country.

Politics of Germany. Germany is a democratic, federal parliamentary republic, where federal legislative power is vested in the Bundestag (the parliament of Germany) and the Bundesrat (the representative body of the Länder, Germany's regional states).

-Wikipedia

So where it the democracy here.
I know they want some changes but why put it in people.
Maybe some of them just dont want that kind of idea. Why not be a voting system instead. Let the people decide what will be convenient for the most.
If people are not using the electronically way then there must be something wrong with it.

[Vishnu.Reang]

Let me see.
National tax, Municipal tax, Church tax, 27% tax on dividends, 25% VAT, (in Greece is 24%), tax on land on buildings...you would think the black market is also rampant here. Oh, forgot to add, 180% tax on cars? 180%!!!
Yet, everyone is saying how Denmark is such a nice country to live in.

If the government in Greece would spend the money the same way it would be a different story.

The tax rates would be much lower, if the European Union cuts down its wasteful spending. For countries such as Sweden, Germany.etc, the tax rates were really high even before the European Union was formed. Once they were admitted in to the EU, another layer of taxation was implemented on the residents living in these countries. But I guess the people are fine with this. Recently Merkel forced the EU to spend more than €100 billion on the Syrian refugees and the EU residents were very happy with this move.

[sana54210]

Maybe the best course would have been having some sort of checks time to time on every business instead of making an absurd new law for it? If you leave it to people to report their income that doesn't mean that 30% of it electronic will change anything, they will make 1000 dollars in profit and say it was 100 dollars and they will spend 30 dollars of it online and you have about 3% of it going to online instead of 30% that way.

I feel like that is not something we can recover ourselves that easily but also governments can't allow people to just report themselves without proper checking. If Greece had a bit more money saved for something like IRS in america they could have actually made that money back easily thanks to people finding criminals evading taxes.

[Clement Kaliyar]

I have also read the news that several countries have also issued policies to limit and reduce the use of fiat money. and maybe this policy will encourage the government to also legalize cryptocurency as an alternative means of payment.

It will not encourage any government to legalize crypto but they want to have complete control over the transactions made by their citizens.

and I agree with the opinion that maybe the Greek government issued the policy to be able to take tax automatically from the accounts of its citizens so that no one will be in arrears to pay taxes.

Is it even allowed to automatically withdraw the tax directly from the account without a consent, it is against the freedom of an individual and i am not sure that will happen because Greece is a democratic republic and if a government does anything then they will be removed from power in the next election if there is a favorable candidate or a party that caters to the needs of the common citizen.

[stompix]

The heck!
This is something new for a country.

Politics of Germany. Germany is a democratic, federal parliamentary republic, where federal legislative power is vested in the Bundestag (the parliament of Germany) and the Bundesrat (the representative body of the Länder, Germany's regional states).

-Wikipedia

Yeah, what the heck indeed...
Greece and Germany are two different countries! And no, that nothing new for a country, that's why is called a federal republic.

~.

Once they were admitted in to the EU, another layer of taxation was implemented on the residents living in these countries.

Nothing like this happened and there is no such thing as a second layer of taxation in the EU.

[wxa7115]

Maybe the best course would have been having some sort of checks time to time on every business instead of making an absurd new law for it? If you leave it to people to report their income that doesn't mean that 30% of it electronic will change anything, they will make 1000 dollars in profit and say it was 100 dollars and they will spend 30 dollars of it online and you have about 3% of it going to online instead of 30% that way.

I feel like that is not something we can recover ourselves that easily but also governments can't allow people to just report themselves without proper checking. If Greece had a bit more money saved for something like IRS in america they could have actually made that money back easily thanks to people finding criminals evading taxes.

And this is why those kind of laws are useless, people are always going to find a way around the law especially if they believe that the law that is being imposed upon them is unfair, and there is no doubt in my mind that mandating the citizens of a country how to spend their money is without a doubt an abuse of power from that government.

However if there is one thing that is good about that law is that it is making people painfully aware that all politicians around the world do not really have as a goal the benefit of the population, they only want to perpetuate themselves in positions of power and they will do everything that they can to achieve that goal.

[gentlemand]

And this is why those kind of laws are useless

And this is why we're going to end up with governmentcoins and they will go all out for cashlessness. When there is no other way of paying or being paid you have no other choice but to comply with whatever they impose on you.

[yulionoo]

I have also read the news that several countries have also issued policies to limit and reduce the use of fiat money. and maybe this policy will encourage the government to also legalize cryptocurency as an alternative means of payment.

It will not encourage any government to legalize crypto but they want to have complete control over the transactions made by their citizens.

and I agree with the opinion that maybe the Greek government issued the policy to be able to take tax automatically from the accounts of its citizens so that no one will be in arrears to pay taxes.

Is it even allowed to automatically withdraw the tax directly from the account without a consent, it is against the freedom of an individual and i am not sure that will happen because Greece is a democratic republic and if a government does anything then they will be removed from power in the next election if there is a favorable candidate or a party that caters to the needs of the common citizen.

I think it is not difficult for the government to make tax collection rules automatically through bank accounts. they will make rules and then announce to people and then the rules will be applied. maybe some residents will reject this rule. but did you know the character of government is always authoritarian. they will always try to take tax from their citizens. because taxes are the country's biggest income. the government in my country also issued regulations like that they force their citizens to pay taxes automatically. that policy even though I disagree I can't do anything because I'm just an ordinary person.

[Clement Kaliyar]

~snip
I think it is not difficult for the government to make tax collection rules automatically through bank accounts. they will make rules and then announce to people and then the rules will be applied. maybe some residents will reject this rule. but did you know the character of government is always authoritarian. they will always try to take tax from their citizens. because taxes are the country's biggest income. the government in my country also issued regulations like that they force their citizens to pay taxes automatically. that policy even though I disagree I can't do anything because I'm just an ordinary person.

If you are living in a dictator ship kind of environment you really cannot do anything about that, if you are living in places where general elections select who comes into power then you can make a choice the next time you go to vote whether you want them back to rule the country and if a government in that situation will make a rule like that then i bet they will not come to power again. The politicians should not be our dictators and we are not their slaves to enforce everything on us, i am from a democratic country and hence this is my view point.