Solutions

[fatsy]

Hi, I came up with a solution for Gun Control: https://defendingthetruth.com/threads/common-people.113527/ Will you stand up to the NRA with my idea?
Also, a solution for basic income outside of government and wall street: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KGQtmbhF8AOjWFlEO0Tr6K-PpkGTNBhYsufL1ZNx95E/edit
If have the guts to present these to the public, you'll have my vote.

[1715180694]

1715180694

[1715180694]

1715180694

[PopoJeff]

So 3 gangsters break into your home at 3am wielding swords, bats and hammers. They start attacking your family, your children.  You get your firearm to defend your family....... and, nothing...

You have to call the government for authorization to kill the people attacking your kids. You make a call to some call center, which is answered by some lady who reads thru a question and answer checklist. 4-5 minutes later, you authorization to unlock the gun is approved.

Now, you exit your hiding spot with a working firearms, to find your family dead and the intruders are gone.



Yeah, great idea



Next topic:  a basic income (ie: free money for all) will do nothing for society. If you raise a bar from 0 to 20 for everyone, every scale for everything else will now start at 20 instead of 0. The costs of everything, will increase in proportion to the new lowest bar setting.

[fatsy]

So 3 gangsters break into your home at 3am wielding swords, bats and hammers. They start attacking your family, your children.  You get your firearm to defend your family....... and, nothing...

You have to call the government for authorization to kill the people attacking your kids. You make a call to some call center, which is answered by some lady who reads thru a question and answer checklist. 4-5 minutes later, you authorization to unlock the gun is approved.

Now, you exit your hiding spot with a working firearms, to find your family dead and the intruders are gone.



Yeah, great idea

Your home is not a public place so this wouldn't apply. Your gun would operate without needing authorization to fire.

[PopoJeff]

Ok, change the location.  I'm in the grocery store, 3 armed bandits come in to rob the place and the customers. You just forced me to concede to being another victim as my only choice.

[PopoJeff]

Part two of impossible:   Let's say this gun plan had a snow balls chance.  How do you implement it?  How do you get the 393 million current guns out of the public's hands?  Many of these current guns are not on any 'registry' or ownership list. Some states do not require any FFL involvement in transferring of long guns. Some guns have been passed down from family, which also requires no FFL. Some guns have been possessed since prior to any transfer laws. Some guns are manufactured without a serial number (still perfectly legal today), or have been in existence since prior to serial number requirements.

[fatsy]

Ok, change the location.  I'm in the grocery store, 3 armed bandits come in to rob the place and the customers. You just forced me to concede to being another victim as my only choice.

If three armed bandits came to rob a public place, they wouldn't be able to fire their guns.

[PopoJeff]

Ok, change the location.  I'm in the grocery store, 3 armed bandits come in to rob the place and the customers. You just forced me to concede to being another victim as my only choice.

If three armed bandits came to rob a public place, they wouldn't be able to fire their guns.

I never said they had guns. Armed includes any weapon capable of serious bodily injury or death.  Knives, bricks, hammers, rocks.

Now let's say they do have guns. Are they your new guns? Or are they old guns, homemade guns, guns that were were not turned in?

[fatsy]

Part two of impossible:   Let's say this gun plan had a snow balls chance.  How do you implement it?  How do you get the 393 million current guns out of the public's hands?  Many of these current guns are not on any 'registry' or ownership list. Some states do not require any FFL involvement in transferring of long guns. Some guns have been passed down from family, which also requires no FFL. Some guns have been possessed since prior to any transfer laws. Some guns are manufactured without a serial number (still perfectly legal today), or have been in existence since prior to serial number requirements.

The law could require the gun manufacturers to make replicas of all their models with the Smart Gun Technology. And owners of the guns could simply exchange their guns at no cost. The manufacturers already made their profit when they sold the original. All guns without the Smart Gun Technology, could be made illegal.

[PopoJeff]

Part two of impossible:   Let's say this gun plan had a snow balls chance.  How do you implement it?  How do you get the 393 million current guns out of the public's hands?  Many of these current guns are not on any 'registry' or ownership list. Some states do not require any FFL involvement in transferring of long guns. Some guns have been passed down from family, which also requires no FFL. Some guns have been possessed since prior to any transfer laws. Some guns are manufactured without a serial number (still perfectly legal today), or have been in existence since prior to serial number requirements.

The law could require the gun manufacturers to make replicas of all their models with the Smart Gun Technology. And owners of the guns could simply exchange their guns at no cost. The manufacturers already made their profit when they sold the original. All guns without the Smart Gun Technology, could be made illegal.

So, you'll enact a law, requiring gun manufacturers to take huge financial loss?  Making more guns costs money/labor/overhead.
And then you expect a criminal (who doesn't follow the law by definition) to exchange their gun for a new one they don't control.?
And then the guns w/o new tech being illegal, will never be found unless they are caught with the gun in their possession.
And all the current law abiding gun owners will become criminals if they don't hand in their property?

(Not being disrespectful here.... just walking you thru real life)

[Spendulus]

Part two of impossible:   Let's say this gun plan had a snow balls chance.  How do you implement it?  How do you get the 393 million current guns out of the public's hands?  Many of these current guns are not on any 'registry' or ownership list. Some states do not require any FFL involvement in transferring of long guns. Some guns have been passed down from family, which also requires no FFL. Some guns have been possessed since prior to any transfer laws. Some guns are manufactured without a serial number (still perfectly legal today), or have been in existence since prior to serial number requirements.

The law could require the gun manufacturers to make replicas of all their models with the Smart Gun Technology. And owners of the guns could simply exchange their guns at no cost. The manufacturers already made their profit when they sold the original. All guns without the Smart Gun Technology, could be made illegal.

Since criminals follow the law and don't do things that are illegal, that sounds great!

Wait...

[fatsy]

Ok, change the location.  I'm in the grocery store, 3 armed bandits come in to rob the place and the customers. You just forced me to concede to being another victim as my only choice.

If three armed bandits came to rob a public place, they wouldn't be able to fire their guns.

I never said they had guns. Armed includes any weapon capable of serious bodily injury or death.  Knives, bricks, hammers, rocks.

Now let's say they do have guns. Are they your new guns? Or are they old guns, homemade guns, guns that were were not turned in?

The owner of the store could get permission to fire his gun and protect his business and customers beforehand . As far as protection from printed guns and bullets, I guess that's where we're fucked. But, how many gun crimes are done with printed guns? I'm guessing not that many.

If a criminal wants to commit a crime, their isn't much that can be about that. Smart Gun Technology could make it harder to commit the crime or at the very lest prevent the accidental firing of the gun.

[PopoJeff]

I think the biggest thing you're overlooking is mindset.  

The criminals don't care what they laws are, so you'll never get their guns.  And if by some chance you do, they just find another weapon they can control. Homemade guns or knives.

Now the mindset of the lawful gun owner.  We believe we have a right to defend ourselves.  What I own to do that is none of the government's business. I'm not going to give up control of my life, and life-saving decision making, to the government.

 Then you have enforcement issues. Guns tend to be a problem more so where there's a concentration of criminals. Ie: big cities.  Out in the suburbs, we have no issues with guns.  Likewise, law enforcement follows the same concept.  City cops think no one should have a gun but them. Suburban cops can often depend on legal gun owners for assistance.

   I'm a suburban cop. I have sworn to uphold the Constitution.  I will not take guns away from my citizens. And I will not surrender my personal collection of guns.

  Your process will turn 100million lawful citizens into "criminals."

[PopoJeff]

The owner of the store could get permission to fire his gun and protect his business and customers beforehand . As far as protection from printed guns and bullets, I guess that's where we're fucked. But, how many gun crimes are done with printed guns? I'm guessing not that many.

If a criminal wants to commit a crime, their isn't much that can be about that. Smart Gun Technology could make it harder to commit the crime or at the very lest prevent the accidental firing of the gun.

When does the store owner get permission?   Beforehand, like weeks or months ahead?   If so, then a smart gun isn't so smart. A regular gun gives him the same decision making process. If not beforehand, then when?   During the robbery?  "Please excuse me from this robbery for a moment mr bad guy, I have to call the govt for permission to use my gun, I'll be back in 5min."
I'm not talking about printed guns. Plenty of us know how to make a real gun.  It really is a simple machine. Look up 80% lowers.  

Smart gun Tech will only help stupid people who don't know how to handle a gun.

[fatsy]

Here's another thought: make it really expensive to fire gun. Add a $1000 tax per bullet. The money raised could go towards the victims of gun violence. Hunters could learn to use a crossbow or a bow and arrow.

[PopoJeff]

Here's another thought: make it really expensive to fire gun. Add a $1000 tax per bullet. The money raised could go towards the victims of gun violence. Hunters could learn to use a crossbow or a bow and arrow.

So recreational shooters are now punished for the actions of criminals?  No thanks.

Everyone will then just make their own rounds.  We do it now.  It's called reloading.

And still will not stop criminals.  Why buy $1000 billets when they can just steal them.


I think the real flaw in your thought process is believing guns are the problem.   It's the criminal who uses it unlawfully.  
What if we just make homicide illegal, wouldn't that stop the criminals?

"Gun violence" is just violence, regardless of the weapon used.

Run some numbers.... 383,000,000 guns are owned in the US.  How many of them are used criminally each year.

[fatsy]

I think the biggest thing you're overlooking is mindset.  

The criminals don't care what they laws are, so you'll never get their guns.  And if by some chance you do, they just find another weapon they can control. Homemade guns or knives.

Now the mindset of the lawful gun owner.  We believe we have a right to defend ourselves.  What I own to do that is none of the government's business. I'm not going to give up control of my life, and life-saving decision making, to the government.

 Then you have enforcement issues. Guns tend to be a problem more so where there's a concentration of criminals. Ie: big cities.  Out in the suburbs, we have no issues with guns.  Likewise, law enforcement follows the same concept.  City cops think no one should have a gun but them. Suburban cops can often depend on legal gun owners for assistance.

   I'm a suburban cop. I have sworn to uphold the Constitution.  I will not take guns away from my citizens. And I will not surrender my personal collection of guns.

  Your process will turn 100million lawful citizens into "criminals."

That's the problem: the mindset of the gun owner. You don't want to give up the power to kill anyone anytime you like.

You're a cop, how about the accidental firing of guns by their children? How many of those have you seen? The technology could prevent that.

The gun's design hasn't changed since it was invented. Don't you think its time for a little modernization?

We have smart homes, phones, and cars. We even have smart toilets. Why can't we have smart guns?

[fatsy]

Here's another thought: make it really expensive to fire gun. Add a $1000 tax per bullet. The money raised could go towards the victims of gun violence. Hunters could learn to use a crossbow or a bow and arrow.

So recreational shooters are now punished for the actions of criminals?  No thanks.

Everyone will then just make their own rounds.  We do it now.  It's called reloading.

And still will not stop criminals.  Why buy $1000 billets when they can just steal them.


I think the real flaw in your thought process is believing guns are the problem.   It's the criminal who uses it unlawfully.  
What if we just make homicide illegal, wouldn't that stop the criminals?

"Gun violence" is just violence, regardless of the weapon used.

Run some numbers.... 383,000,000 guns are owned in the US.  How many of them are used criminally each year.

Get a new hobby.

The chances of a bullet misfiring or jamming are higher if its a reloaded bullet So, just steal them and commit another crime? How about making the manufactured bullets hard to steal? Like Fort Knoks hard?

[Mometaskers]

Legal guns not firing in public just means criminals using illegal guns don't have to worry about a gun-wielding public. I believe there were already several incidents in the US where people shot down mass shooters. Imagine if you actually have to wait for the police to come.

Sure you can make it so that in the event that a mass shooting happens all the other guns unlock but there will be a delay between the center receiving information that one is indeed happening and them being able to deactivate the block.

Not to mention they'd probably spend even more time "confirming" the incident before being forced to unlock guns coz "Guns Bad!".

Since criminals follow the law and don't do things that are illegal, that sounds great!

Wait...

Wait they don't follow the law? I'm shookt!

[PopoJeff]

I think the biggest thing you're overlooking is mindset.  

The criminals don't care what they laws are, so you'll never get their guns.  And if by some chance you do, they just find another weapon they can control. Homemade guns or knives.

Now the mindset of the lawful gun owner.  We believe we have a right to defend ourselves.  What I own to do that is none of the government's business. I'm not going to give up control of my life, and life-saving decision making, to the government.

 Then you have enforcement issues. Guns tend to be a problem more so where there's a concentration of criminals. Ie: big cities.  Out in the suburbs, we have no issues with guns.  Likewise, law enforcement follows the same concept.  City cops think no one should have a gun but them. Suburban cops can often depend on legal gun owners for assistance.

   I'm a suburban cop. I have sworn to uphold the Constitution.  I will not take guns away from my citizens. And I will not surrender my personal collection of guns.

  Your process will turn 100million lawful citizens into "criminals."

That's the problem: the mindset of the gun owner. You don't want to give up the power to kill anyone anytime you like.

You're a cop, how about the accidental firing of guns by their children? How many of those have you seen? The technology could prevent that.

The gun's design hasn't changed since it was invented. Don't you think its time for a little modernization?

We have smart homes, phones, and cars. We even have smart toilets. Why can't we have smart guns?

Nah, you're a little off base there. You think the gun owner wants "the power to kill anyone anytime"... that's where you are out of touch.  We want the ability to defend ourselves and our loved ones FROM people who think they can kill anyone anytime.

I have no problem with a smart gun of sorts... like fingerprint unlocked guns.. to prevent careless gun owners children from using them. But that needs to be voluntary, not mandated. As far as how many accidental shootings I've seen.... over 18 years, I've seen 4 total.  Two were nobody getting hit, just a hole in the floor, because they followed at least one of the gun safety rules.  The other two were gang banger criminals accidentally shooting themselves. One in arm. One in leg.  Both were legally prohibited from possessing firearms.
 It's not the mindset of the gun owner you need to worry about, it's the mindset of the criminal.

[PopoJeff]

Get a new hobby.

The chances of a bullet misfiring or jamming are higher if its a reloaded bullet So, just steal them and commit another crime? How about making the manufactured bullets hard to steal? Like Fort Knoks hard?

More people are killed by drunk drivers and car accidents than gun fire.  Should we all give up driving or alcohol to appease the masses in the name of safety?  Even though you never hurt anyone, how would you feel about your rights being taken away because of the criminal  acts of others?

You get a new hobby. It's my property, for my safety, that's never harmed anyone.


https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/08/16/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/

The gun related murder rate has steadily declined since 1968.  Without any changes to the gun