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fatsy
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December 15, 2019, 08:50:29 PM
 #41

I agree. You should be able to have any modification under the sun on YOUR gun.

It's the firing of guns that needs to be checked; as to not harm the innocent.

And who is going to decide who that innocent person is? You block guns from being able to fire without a green light from the authorities and you're giving your life in their hands.
Really, who is going to be innocent? A child? What about a child trained to kill by ISIS, holding a grenade? There's no way for your idea to work.
As for your universal basic income proposal it begins with someone buying shares, so that someone has to invest first. Poor people who can't afford it will be excluded. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of UBI?
I was talking about someone being struck be a stray bullet. Not a child from ISIS holding a hard grenade like you described.

If if someone, like me, were to give away the shares to poor people why wouldn't they be able to benefit? They could stake the tokens (the ones that were given to them) and then sell the dividends. I've already given away tokens to some people.
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December 15, 2019, 08:59:54 PM
 #42

I was talking about someone being struck be a stray bullet. Not a child from ISIS holding a hard grenade like you described.

If if someone, like me, were to give away the shares to poor people why wouldn't they be able to benefit? They could stake the tokens (the ones that were given to them) and then sell the dividends. I've already given away tokens to some people.


Do you think you could stick to the topic? Sorry but you know about as much about economics as you do about firearms, that is to say absolutely nothing. Your ideas are not new or revolutionary, they are half backed horse shit that would be an absolute disaster if it were ever attempted.
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December 15, 2019, 09:12:21 PM
 #43

I was talking about when the owner uses his gun to commit murder. Don't you think that's wrong? Btw, in my book self defense is NOT murder.

And what if he uses a pencil? Are you going to ban pencils?
Do you how ridiculous you sound?

I know its impossible to have a foolproof weapon. The reason I bring up the gun is because that's the first thing people think of when it comes to this issue. Not knife, molotov cocktails, powerful fireworks, bows and crossbow control.
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December 15, 2019, 09:27:22 PM
 #44

I was talking about someone being struck be a stray bullet. Not a child from ISIS holding a hard grenade like you described.

If if someone, like me, were to give away the shares to poor people why wouldn't they be able to benefit? They could stake the tokens (the ones that were given to them) and then sell the dividends. I've already given away tokens to some people.


Do you think you could stick to the topic? Sorry but you know about as much about economics as you do about firearms, that is to say absolutely nothing. Your ideas are not new or revolutionary, they are half backed horse shit that would be an absolute disaster if it were ever attempted.
I am sticking to the topic. Gun Control AND UBI.

I don't claim to be an expert on guns or the economy. I just know there are problems with both and I seem to be the only one that's come with solutions.

What are your solutions? I'm sure everyone would want to know.
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December 15, 2019, 09:30:41 PM
 #45

Do you how ridiculous you sound?

I know its impossible to have a foolproof weapon. The reason I bring up the gun is because that's the first thing people think of when it comes to this issue. Not knife, molotov cocktails, powerful fireworks, bows and crossbow control.

So you're one of those people who read in the news that a pitbull attacked a child and thinks "ban all pitbulls". What if we put a smart chip in a pitbull's head that would make it unable to attack in a public place and unable to bite children? Sounds great in theory, if you're unable to see the big picture, which is a spoilt brat kicking the dog every day, until it finally bites. Now all the spoilt brats can unload their frustration at home by beating up pitbulls, and it doesn't change anything for all those other children bitten by rottweilers, german shepherds, and all the other dogs around the world, every single day.
Your idea will never work and you were told earlier in the thread why that is, but your understanding of the society is extremely naive. Like that part when you said that people will get an offer to exchange their old guns for smart guns for free and they'll all do it.

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December 15, 2019, 10:37:45 PM
 #46

Do you how ridiculous you sound?

I know its impossible to have a foolproof weapon. The reason I bring up the gun is because that's the first thing people think of when it comes to this issue. Not knife, molotov cocktails, powerful fireworks, bows and crossbow control.

So you're one of those people who read in the news that a pitbull attacked a child and thinks "ban all pitbulls". What if we put a smart chip in a pitbull's head that would make it unable to attack in a public place and unable to bite children? Sounds great in theory, if you're unable to see the big picture, which is a spoilt brat kicking the dog every day, until it finally bites. Now all the spoilt brats can unload their frustration at home by beating up pitbulls, and it doesn't change anything for all those other children bitten by rottweilers, german shepherds, and all the other dogs around the world, every single day.
Your idea will never work and you were told earlier in the thread why that is, but your understanding of the society is extremely naive. Like that part when you said that people will get an offer to exchange their old guns for smart guns for free and they'll all do it.
How do know that my ideas won't work if it's never been tried? Are you an expert?

Gun control is not the same as controlling your dog's bite. Btw, I have pitbulls. If they bite, it's for a reason. But the media never reports that reason. They just want to demonize the breed.
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December 15, 2019, 10:38:08 PM
 #47

Alright, lets try a different train of thought. Several people explained very common sense reasons why this will not work. So let's move on to a different angle.

Lets say it does work. You find someway to convince people to turn in 380million guns in the US, gun manufacturers to make 380million guns for free, and implement some Federal agency to oversee the program and authorize gun unlocks.
And we'll just forget about the thousands of people that die waiting for govt approval to defend themselves.
We just ignore all the impossibilities that have been logically laid out.

Congrats, you did it. Every gun in the US is rigged with your cell phone tech and is under govt control for use.

What happens when cell signals are blocked? Inside a tunnel. Inside a hospital. The toy section at walmart. In the state forest too far from a cell tower. During a natural disaster when all line are overwhelmed.

I live about an hour outside Philadelphia, and we still have huge dead zones out here.

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December 15, 2019, 10:48:48 PM
 #48

Alright, lets try a different train of thought. Several people explained very common sense reasons why this will not work. So let's move on to a different angle.

Lets say it does work. You find someway to convince people to turn in 380million guns in the US, gun manufacturers to make 380million guns for free, and implement some Federal agency to oversee the program and authorize gun unlocks.
And we'll just forget about the thousands of people that die waiting for govt approval to defend themselves.
We just ignore all the impossibilities that have been logically laid out.

Congrats, you did it. Every gun in the US is rigged with your cell phone tech and is under govt control for use.

What happens when cell signals are blocked? Inside a tunnel. Inside a hospital. The toy section at walmart. In the state forest too far from a cell tower. During a natural disaster when all line are overwhelmed.

I live about an hour outside Philadelphia, and we still have huge dead zones out here.
What if the sky falls?

What part of firing your gun in a public place don't you understand? Why would anyone other than law enforcement need to fire their gun in public?
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December 15, 2019, 11:02:25 PM
 #49

Why would anyone other than law enforcement need to fire their gun in public?

To shoot a deer?
To stop a criminal of many kinds?
To resist a Russian invasion?
To stop an attacking dog?
Zombies?
To resist tyrannical zombies?

Do you live in NYC where their is a cop on every corner or something? Because in the real world police aren't really there to save you..

Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks
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December 15, 2019, 11:06:38 PM
 #50

Alright, lets try a different train of thought. Several people explained very common sense reasons why this will not work. So let's move on to a different angle.

Lets say it does work. You find someway to convince people to turn in 380million guns in the US, gun manufacturers to make 380million guns for free, and implement some Federal agency to oversee the program and authorize gun unlocks.
And we'll just forget about the thousands of people that die waiting for govt approval to defend themselves.
We just ignore all the impossibilities that have been logically laid out.

Congrats, you did it. Every gun in the US is rigged with your cell phone tech and is under govt control for use.

What happens when cell signals are blocked? Inside a tunnel. Inside a hospital. The toy section at walmart. In the state forest too far from a cell tower. During a natural disaster when all line are overwhelmed.

I live about an hour outside Philadelphia, and we still have huge dead zones out here.
What if the sky falls?

What part of firing your gun in a public place don't you understand? Why would anyone other than law enforcement need to fire their gun in public?

Ok. I was trying to be fair and logical with you.  Obviously that isnt working.
You really think law enforcement is going to be everywhere all the time?   Where the heck do you live that you think theres always a cop around to protect you?   I cover an area of 24sqmi with a population of 16,000. And on night shift, theres normally two cops, sometimes one.
Legal gun owners are the first line of defense. We usually get there 7 minutes later to take the report and photograph the body.

I have to ask some demographic questions to see where you are coming from.  What is your age bracket? 20-25?  Region of residence? Large city?

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December 15, 2019, 11:08:35 PM
 #51

And btw, many civilian gun owners shoot much better than cops. Ive seen it first hand..... often

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December 15, 2019, 11:13:02 PM
 #52

Here's a local story I'm familiar with of EXACTLY why your idea will not work, and would've killed an innocent man. This trail he was riding on is remote and not easily accessible for cops, and never patrolled.

http://www2.readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=361731

A 65-year-old Reading man who was riding his bicycle was justified in shooting two teens - one fatally - who tried to rob him on a Schuylkill River trail as part of a crime spree, the Berks County district attorney said Thursday.

The teens, age 16 and 15, and another 15-year-old boy skipped school Wednesday and robbed two pedestrians in West Reading before they attacked the man as he rode on the Thun Trail in Cumru Township at 11 a.m., police said.

The man, whose name authorities withheld, will not be charged for shooting the teens because he acted in self-defense, which is legal under Pennsylvania's Castle Doctrine, District Attorney John T. Adams said.

"While I don't condone violence, the bike rider had no choice," Adams said. "It was justifiable homicide."

Julius Johnson, 16, of Reading was pronounced dead at the scene Wednesday morning after he was shot in his chest with a handgun, officials said.

An autopsy Thursday by Dr. Supriya Kuruvila, a forensic pathologist at Reading Hospital, determined Johnson died of a gunshot wound to the chest, according to the county coroner's office. The death was ruled a homicide, officials said.

The 15-year-old shot in the neck remained in Reading Hospital on Thursday, officials said. Information about his medical condition could not be obtained. Police did not release his name because he has not been charged.

The third teen, Michael Gonzalez, 15, address unavailable, was charged with robbery, aggravated assault and related offenses and committed to the county youth center in Bern Township.

Officials said an investigation continues.

Johnson was a Reading High School student, and the 15-year-olds are Gov. Mifflin High School students, Adams said.

Adams gave this account:

Johnson was on probation for previous offenses. Juvenile probation officers had gone to his Oakbrook residence earlier Wednesday and found the three teens playing video games.

They told the two 15-year-olds to leave. The officers put an electronic monitoring device on Johnson's ankle, ordered him to stay home and report to their office with his parents at 4 p.m.

Instead, the three met up and decided to jump and rob random victims.

They first robbed an elderly man in West Reading shortly after 10 a.m., taking money from his pockets, then tried to rob another man in West Reading, kneeing him in the stomach and pushing him to the ground. Neither man was hurt.

The bike rider was on the trail between Reading and West Reading.

As he rode past the teens, the 15-year-old whose name was not released punched the man in the face, knocking him from his bike. Johnson ran and kicked the man, who was sitting against a chain-link fence along the trail.

As one of the teens ran toward the man, he shot Johnson and the 15-year-old.

People who found the man called 9-1-1 and waited for police to arrive. It was unclear if the people heard the shots or were on the trail.

The teens weren't armed, but the shootings were legal because the man was unable to escape, thought his life was in danger and had a permit to carry his gun, Adams said.

The man told investigators: "I was scared for my life. I was in big trouble. If I could have kept my bike on the trail, I would have gotten out of there."

The man was unhurt but shaken by the shootings, Adams said.

Adams did not know if Johnson's monitoring device had GPS tracking capabilities or if it simply triggered an alarm when he left his home. Adams said juvenile probation officers acted appropriately.

Cumru Police Chief Jed Habecker credited his department for its quick investigation.

He said the crime was only the second robbery to occur along the Cumru section of the Thun Trail in about a decade.

Adams said he has heard from many people in the community that the bicyclist was a hero for successfully defending himself.

"When your life is in danger, you have no choice but to use deadly force," he said.

Contact Mike Urban: 610-371-5023 or murban@readingeagle.com.

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December 15, 2019, 11:18:07 PM
 #53

Why would anyone other than law enforcement need to fire their gun in public?

To shoot a deer?
To stop a criminal of many kinds?
To resist a Russian invasion?
To stop an attacking dog?
Zombies?
To resist tyrannical zombies?

Do you live in NYC where their is a cop on every corner or something? Because in the real world police aren't really there to save you..
Nope. I don't live in NYC where there's a cop on corner.

I do, however, live in the real world where I don't have to worry about attacks from deer, Russians, or zombies. I think that you need to stop watching too much tv lol
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December 15, 2019, 11:24:20 PM
 #54

Why would anyone other than law enforcement need to fire their gun in public?

To shoot a deer?
To stop a criminal of many kinds?
To resist a Russian invasion?
To stop an attacking dog?
Zombies?
To resist tyrannical zombies?

Do you live in NYC where their is a cop on every corner or something? Because in the real world police aren't really there to save you..
Nope. I don't live in NYC where there's a cop on corner.

I do, however, live in the real world where I don't have to worry about attacks from deer, Russians, or zombies. I think that you need to stop watching too much tv lol

Guess your "real world" doesnt have violent criminals who prey on the perceived weak.   Sounds like a fantasy world

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December 15, 2019, 11:36:50 PM
 #55

....

I do, however, live in the real world where I don't have to worry about attacks from deer, Russians, or zombies. ...

How about you do what you want, and I'll do what I want?

Or what I think is best for my protection and that of my family?

Obviously, you've never encountered a hostile wild pig, a rabid dog, been involved in a carjacking, or many other real world things.

If you insist on trying to devise a scheme for others, who have other realities that yours, you will look foolish.
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December 15, 2019, 11:40:50 PM
 #56

Here's a local story I'm familiar with of EXACTLY why your idea will not work, and would've killed an innocent man. This trail he was riding on is remote and not easily accessible for cops, and never patrolled.

http://www2.readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=361731

A 65-year-old Reading man who was riding his bicycle was justified in shooting two teens - one fatally - who tried to rob him on a Schuylkill River trail as part of a crime spree, the Berks County district attorney said Thursday.

The teens, age 16 and 15, and another 15-year-old boy skipped school Wednesday and robbed two pedestrians in West Reading before they attacked the man as he rode on the Thun Trail in Cumru Township at 11 a.m., police said.

The man, whose name authorities withheld, will not be charged for shooting the teens because he acted in self-defense, which is legal under Pennsylvania's Castle Doctrine, District Attorney John T. Adams said.

"While I don't condone violence, the bike rider had no choice," Adams said. "It was justifiable homicide."

Julius Johnson, 16, of Reading was pronounced dead at the scene Wednesday morning after he was shot in his chest with a handgun, officials said.

An autopsy Thursday by Dr. Supriya Kuruvila, a forensic pathologist at Reading Hospital, determined Johnson died of a gunshot wound to the chest, according to the county coroner's office. The death was ruled a homicide, officials said.

The 15-year-old shot in the neck remained in Reading Hospital on Thursday, officials said. Information about his medical condition could not be obtained. Police did not release his name because he has not been charged.

The third teen, Michael Gonzalez, 15, address unavailable, was charged with robbery, aggravated assault and related offenses and committed to the county youth center in Bern Township.

Officials said an investigation continues.

Johnson was a Reading High School student, and the 15-year-olds are Gov. Mifflin High School students, Adams said.

Adams gave this account:

Johnson was on probation for previous offenses. Juvenile probation officers had gone to his Oakbrook residence earlier Wednesday and found the three teens playing video games.

They told the two 15-year-olds to leave. The officers put an electronic monitoring device on Johnson's ankle, ordered him to stay home and report to their office with his parents at 4 p.m.

Instead, the three met up and decided to jump and rob random victims.

They first robbed an elderly man in West Reading shortly after 10 a.m., taking money from his pockets, then tried to rob another man in West Reading, kneeing him in the stomach and pushing him to the ground. Neither man was hurt.

The bike rider was on the trail between Reading and West Reading.

As he rode past the teens, the 15-year-old whose name was not released punched the man in the face, knocking him from his bike. Johnson ran and kicked the man, who was sitting against a chain-link fence along the trail.

As one of the teens ran toward the man, he shot Johnson and the 15-year-old.

People who found the man called 9-1-1 and waited for police to arrive. It was unclear if the people heard the shots or were on the trail.

The teens weren't armed, but the shootings were legal because the man was unable to escape, thought his life was in danger and had a permit to carry his gun, Adams said.

The man told investigators: "I was scared for my life. I was in big trouble. If I could have kept my bike on the trail, I would have gotten out of there."

The man was unhurt but shaken by the shootings, Adams said.

Adams did not know if Johnson's monitoring device had GPS tracking capabilities or if it simply triggered an alarm when he left his home. Adams said juvenile probation officers acted appropriately.

Cumru Police Chief Jed Habecker credited his department for its quick investigation.

He said the crime was only the second robbery to occur along the Cumru section of the Thun Trail in about a decade.

Adams said he has heard from many people in the community that the bicyclist was a hero for successfully defending himself.

"When your life is in danger, you have no choice but to use deadly force," he said.

Contact Mike Urban: 610-371-5023 or murban@readingeagle.com.

Wow, that's one hell of a long ass story!

What if the guy who was attacked used a little common sense and didn't ride his bike in an area that wasn't patrolled by cops?

I know that some attacks can't be avoided no matter what you do. But the chances of being attacked can be reduced by using a little common sense and avoid those areas or riding with a friend.
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December 15, 2019, 11:44:49 PM
 #57

Read the story again.  Only the second issue on that trail in a decade.  Not really a dangerous place with those statistics.  Two robberies in 10 years, along a scenic river jogging/biking trail used by hundreds daily.

Random bad stuff happens.

But either way, Your idea kills the man.

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December 15, 2019, 11:55:54 PM
 #58

....

I do, however, live in the real world where I don't have to worry about attacks from deer, Russians, or zombies. ...

How about you do what you want, and I'll do what I want?

Or what I think is best for my protection and that of my family?

Obviously, you've never encountered a hostile wild pig, a rabid dog, been involved in a carjacking, or many other real world things.

If you insist on trying to devise a scheme for others, who have other realities that yours, you will look foolish.
No, I haven't been involved in any of those things.

I just thought of solutions to some problems. I know that these solutions won't work for everyone but at least it's a start. I don't see any other solutions. Do you?
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December 16, 2019, 12:06:47 AM
 #59

Read the story again.  Only the second issue on that trail in a decade.  Not really a dangerous place with those statistics.  Two robberies in 10 years, along a scenic river jogging/biking trail used by hundreds daily.

Random bad stuff happens.

But either way, Your idea kills the man.

Who? The attacker? I say good riddance then. One less asshole to worry about.
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December 16, 2019, 12:08:54 AM
 #60

....

I do, however, live in the real world where I don't have to worry about attacks from deer, Russians, or zombies. ...

How about you do what you want, and I'll do what I want?

Or what I think is best for my protection and that of my family?

Obviously, you've never encountered a hostile wild pig, a rabid dog, been involved in a carjacking, or many other real world things.

If you insist on trying to devise a scheme for others, who have other realities that yours, you will look foolish.
No, I haven't been involved in any of those things.

I just thought of solutions to some problems. I know that these solutions won't work for everyone but at least it's a start. I don't see any other solutions. Do you?

But, its not a solution.  It's an idea.  I applaud people coming up with ideas to solve a problem. But its not a solution until it's deemed to actually be able to solve the problem.  It's an idea, that will not work.  Scratch that plan, come up with a new idea

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