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Author Topic: Most time online list, is it a bug?  (Read 380 times)
tranthidung (OP)
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December 17, 2019, 03:40:50 AM
 #1

Is it a forum's bug?

At https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=stats, I see the stats for most time online list like that:

I checked and saw all of them are Brand new users.

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December 17, 2019, 04:00:20 AM
Merited by hugeblack (2), LoyceV (1), tranthidung (1)
 #2

Maybe it's the same as the previous verdicts?:


Based from the combined replies from the two threads, it looks like an issue with accounts logged-in to multiple instances (eg. Bots).
Just read those topics for more info, there's no conclusion though.

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December 17, 2019, 07:16:33 AM
 #3

Maybe it's the same as the previous verdicts?

Based from the combined replies from the two threads, it looks like an issue with accounts logged-in to multiple instances (eg. Bots).
Just read those topics for more info, there's no conclusion though.
That’s right. If you open 5 tabs of BTT, your online time will increase in 5x. Maybe there users are scraping the forum or simple trying to increase their online number for some reason. There are a few BTT copy capts that have pretty much all posts after a few minutes/hours so I bet on the first.

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December 18, 2019, 08:19:35 AM
 #4

That’s right. If you open 5 tabs of BTT, your online time will increase in 5x.
Actually NO, if we open 5 tabs in a same browser or different browser it won't increase the total online count because I tried it by myself.

Maybe it will if someone open their BTT account of five different devices?

Need to check! if I have time for that... Smiley

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December 18, 2019, 09:56:08 AM
 #5

Actually NO, if we open 5 tabs in a same browser or different browser it won't increase the total online count because I tried it by myself.

Maybe it will if someone open their BTT account of five different devices?

Need to check! if I have time for that... Smiley
Hmm, I also tried myself and it does work. So what now? Cheesy

I was on Brave IIRC, btw.

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December 18, 2019, 10:58:35 AM
 #6

The Total Time logged in is probably a non-tweekable SMF feature. I found this thread where someone inquired as to the specifics of its calculus on SMF:
https://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=496342.0

Aparently:
Quote
OK, first thing to understand: the entire concept of a 'session' in SMF terms, like any other online activity, pretty much meaningless.

You are not 'constantly logged in'. Ever. Not even if you select 'forever'. That's mostly a convenience for SMF to remember you rather than having to reauthenticate every hour/day/week/whatever.

It is not, in fact, possible to be 'constantly logged in' in a conventional web based setup, because HTTP doesn't understand the very idea of 'logged in sessions', not at all.

You click a link, in HTTP terms, this is a single request. As far as HTTP - the underlying transport method for the internet - is concerned, the next time you click a link, it's actually irrelevant to the previous one. It doesn't know any different.

What happens, then, is your browser - on your behalf - is sending the details to prove you are who you say you are, by saying 'hey, when I logged in, you gave me this code, here it is again, you know it's me, right?'

What happens is, when you revisit, this same code is provided. SMF reauthenticates you and boom, you're logged back in.

Except that this happens *every single page*. SMF has no way to know whether you're still online reading or not. Right now, you're marked as online, despite (at the time of posting) you made this thread 15 minutes ago. So even though you could have closed your browser and disappeared for the day, you're still online.

As a result of that, SMF has no real way to calculate when you are or are not online, and makes a guess based on when it receives the reauthentication codes, making an allowance based on too long between visits or not long enough between visits.

The result is that it is *never* going to be correct, it is always going to under-report by a certain factor, and that it basically isn't fixable without redesigning the core of the internet as a whole (though you can sort of cover it by redesigning SMF as a whole to enforce a constant connection, if your server could handle it, pretty much all of them couldn't)

And no amount of session juggling is going to change any of that.

Quote
<…> a user who makes more requests over a given period of time will see their online time increase more than a user who makes less requests over the same period of time.

It is an approximation of time spent online, nothing more.
 

If I’ve read it correctly, those accounts are very possibly constant scrapers (or constant something or other), querying the forum. The algorithm, which is not described in the above quotes, may be adding-up many petitions from multiple sessions on the same account, rendering those extremely incongruent numbers.

For example, My scarper Alt account has a logged-in time of 54 days. The account has been active for just over a year, and is active around 12 hours a week from two different simultaneous sessions. 1 Session over a year would add up 26 days roughly (12h*50 weeks/24h), so 2 sessions querying at the same rate would add up to 52 days (that is my 54 days, give or take).

If we take the first account from the list (@btcnfan), that account has been active for 491 days (give or take). The total Logging time for that account in that period is 4909 days. That could mean that the account has been actively querying the forum for those 491 days from 10 different sessions.

This is all conjecture though, but the forum sure knows if they are bot-type-1-query-per-second-multiple-session type accounts.
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December 18, 2019, 08:51:04 PM
Last edit: December 18, 2019, 10:31:53 PM by LeGaulois
 #7

When you're logged in but inactive the system considers the user as offline (because it doesn't know what you're doing) if I'm correct.


Maybe it will if someone open their BTT account of five different devices?


If I am connected to the forum with a device and decide to connect with another device. Isn't the system supposed to automatically disconnect me from the first device? (for security reason or something like that)

EDIT:


If you don't refresh or open a new page after a certain time, you will be considered offline

It's what I'm saying, dude are you real?

You can be online using more than 1 account at a same time.

I'm talking about 1 account, I think it was obvious no?

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December 18, 2019, 09:00:45 PM
Last edit: December 19, 2019, 10:02:54 AM by hosseinimr93
 #8

Maybe it will if someone open their BTT account of five different devices?

I had checked this using two different devices before.

I logged in my account on two different devices simultaneously. Refreshed a page by both devices continuously. Both was contributing to "Total time logged in". In every minute, my "Total time logged in" increased by 2 minutes.



When you're logged in but inactive the system considers the user as offline (because it doesn't know what you're doing) if I'm correct.
If you don't refresh or open a new page after a certain time, you will be considered offline.

If I am connected to the forum with a device and decide to connect with another device. Isn't the system supposed to automatically disconnect me from the first device? (for security reason or something like that)
You can be online using more than 1 account device at a same time.

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December 19, 2019, 09:51:34 AM
 #9

You can be online using more than 1 account at a same time.

I'm talking about 1 account, I think it was obvious no?
You never log in to your bitcointalk account on multiple devices?

But the answer is Yes, you can use the same account on multiple devices at the same time but if you want to be online you need to keep refreshing the pages for every minute.

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hosseinimr93
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December 19, 2019, 10:02:30 AM
 #10

You can be online using more than 1 account at a same time.

I'm talking about 1 account, I think it was obvious no?
Sorry, my bad. I meant more than one device.
Yes, you can login to your account using more than 1 device.

But the answer is Yes, you can use the same account on multiple devices at the same time but if you want to be online you need to keep refreshing the pages for every minute.
Not every minute.
I think the maximum time you should refresh a page or open a new page in to remain online is about 10 minutes.

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Findingnemo
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December 19, 2019, 01:34:58 PM
 #11

But the answer is Yes, you can use the same account on multiple devices at the same time but if you want to be online you need to keep refreshing the pages for every minute.
Not every minute.
I think the maximum time you should refresh a page or open a new page in to remain online is about 10 minutes.

It will show up as online for 10 to 15 minutes even without any activity but total online time doesn't count if you didn't refresh the page for every minute.(correct me if I am wrong)

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hosseinimr93
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December 19, 2019, 10:53:01 PM
 #12

It will show up as online for 10 to 15 minutes even without any activity but total online time doesn't count if you didn't refresh the page for every minute.(correct me if I am wrong)
That's very easy to check.
Open a page, do nothing until 2 minutes after that. Then refresh the page.
You will see that "total time logged in" will increase 2 minutes.

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December 20, 2019, 12:27:19 AM
 #13

It’s a pretty useless data after all. Even if there was no time multiplication bug/exploit, that’s not really an indicator of who is online the most or more active. Just don’t mind it. Cheesy

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LeGaulois
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December 20, 2019, 06:22:54 PM
 #14

It’s a pretty useless data after all. Even if there was no time multiplication bug/exploit, that’s not really an indicator of who is online the most or more active. Just don’t mind it. Cheesy

Mate, I'm sure you know the reason behind and think like me. I don't want to tell it openly because if I start to be vocal it will never end

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You never log in to your bitcointalk account on multiple devices?
Never. I don't live in a castle (yet) and I hate using the web on a smartphone or tablet, it's horrible

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