Trump is lying without giving a fuck, why?

[Oxstone]

Ok this is so purely factual that even the biggest Trumptards won't be able to deny it. I'm still putting it in self mod because you never know what TECSHARE is able of though...

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/01/politics/donald-trump-category-5-hurricane-dorian/index.html

So in a speech Trump says that he's not even sure that he heard about a category 5 hurricane like the Dorian one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVB6fqr4SFI

Ok, why not? After all you don't have to be a scientist to be POTUS and it's a good way to say "wahou it's an unexpected unprecedented event that we have to deal with" so why not.

The problem is that he said THE EXACT SAME THING ALREADY THREE TIMES!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeVCka26BTE

He said exactly that already for the 3 other category 5 that have hit USA while he was in office.

So that's at least 3 times where the guy is lying to his whole country. But why?

My theory here is that he'd rather appear as a moron that admit that such extreme meteorological events are happening more and more which could mean that climate change might not be a Chinese invention.

You see another reason why he would be lying in such obvious way?

[squatz1]

The whole Hurricane story is old news, but I'm pretty sure Trump wants to be 'right' and to prove that he's smarter then the experts. I think this quote kinda sums it all up from the Atlantic.

Fourth, there’s no reason to believe that Trump’s comments on Sunday were anything more than his typical bullshitting: He knew the storm was going to hit the South, he knows Alabama is a southern state, and it’s important to him electorally, so he rambled on. While there’s no reason to believe the initial statement was anything other than an unintentional error, it’s unclear at this point whether Trump now believes his own lie or recognizes it and just won’t let go. It’s also unclear which would be worse.

So I don't think there is any reason for Trump doing this, just bullshitting about his Southern states and failing and not being able to accept that he's wrong.

[zorgo.games]

I think that lie is pretty much the feature of all politicians. They don't feel that they lie at the time when they are doing this. They just say what in their opinion is the most appropriate at the moment. One does not feel ashamed in such a situation as they believe that nothing bad or evil has been done. We can analyze their words and speeches forever but that won't change anything in their behavior. Unfortunately    

[Cnut237]

I posted about this in another thread.

The continuous lying is intentional, and the crucial factor is the speed with which he can churn out new lies. With each new lie, the last one gets submerged before there is a chance for it to be investigated and debunked. Each outrageous headline gets replaced by a new one faster than you can say 'WTF?'. There is no time to prove it's a lie before the next one is upon us. This is how he stays ahead and on top.

[squatz1]

I posted about this in another thread.

The continuous lying is intentional, and the crucial factor is the speed with which he can churn out new lies. With each new lie, the last one gets submerged before there is a chance for it to be investigated and debunked. Each outrageous headline gets replaced by a new one faster than you can say 'WTF?'. There is no time to prove it's a lie before the next one is upon us. This is how he stays ahead and on top.

Yep. This is the pretty big theory that people use, and at certain times I do actually believe it because it makes sense.

A lot of politicians try this though, it's the fact that it's hard to call them out when there's so much disinformation and lying to the point where it's just a waste of time calling them out. It usually works in the world of politics because people will typically now just accept the fact that most politicians lie -- all they have to do is to convince the voters that they lie less, or they're a bit better then their competitors.

Very very interesting strategy.

[Spendulus]

Ok this is so purely factual that even the biggest Trumptards won't be able to deny it. I'm still putting it in self mod because you never know what TECSHARE is able of though...

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/09/01/politics/donald-trump-category-5-hurricane-dorian/index.html

So in a speech Trump says that he's not even sure that he heard about a category 5 hurricane like the Dorian one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVB6fqr4SFI

Ok, why not? After all you don't have to be a scientist to be POTUS and it's a good way to say "wahou it's an unexpected unprecedented event that we have to deal with" so why not.

The problem is that he said THE EXACT SAME THING ALREADY THREE TIMES!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeVCka26BTE

He said exactly that already for the 3 other category 5 that have hit USA while he was in office.

So that's at least 3 times where the guy is lying to his whole country. But why?

My theory here is that he'd rather appear as a moron that admit that such extreme meteorological events are happening more and more which could mean that climate change might not be a Chinese invention.

You see another reason why he would be lying in such obvious way?

Have you ever walked around a place a hurricane has hit a few days later? I can totally imagine a person saying those sorts of things over and over.

Talk like "Such extreme meteorological events..." is more like academic eggheads prattling.

[Oxstone]

Have you ever walked around a place a hurricane has hit a few days later? I can totally imagine a person saying those sorts of things over and over.

Talk like "Such extreme meteorological events..." is more like academic eggheads prattling.

That COULD be an explanation if he was giving an interview from where the hurricane hit, or right after visiting the place. Some kind of emotional mistake yeah.

But I think there is one speech where he does it, so ok let's say that was emotion. And the 7 other times? When he talks about it days if not weeks after the event in a big comfy chair? He's still emotional? Trump is so sensitive and emotional that 3 weeks after the disaster he still doesn't really control what he says?

Damn, not sure that's better...

[Spendulus]

Have you ever walked around a place a hurricane has hit a few days later? I can totally imagine a person saying those sorts of things over and over.

Talk like "Such extreme meteorological events..." is more like academic eggheads prattling.

That COULD be an explanation if he was giving an interview from where the hurricane hit, or right after visiting the place. Some kind of emotional mistake yeah.

But I think there is one speech where he does it, so ok let's say that was emotion. And the 7 other times? When he talks about it days if not weeks after the event in a big comfy chair? He's still emotional? Trump is so sensitive and emotional that 3 weeks after the disaster he still doesn't really control what he says?

Damn, not sure that's better...

Let me repeat, have you yourself ever walked through a hurricane devastated area?

[Oxstone]

Have you ever walked around a place a hurricane has hit a few days later? I can totally imagine a person saying those sorts of things over and over.

Talk like "Such extreme meteorological events..." is more like academic eggheads prattling.

That COULD be an explanation if he was giving an interview from where the hurricane hit, or right after visiting the place. Some kind of emotional mistake yeah.

But I think there is one speech where he does it, so ok let's say that was emotion. And the 7 other times? When he talks about it days if not weeks after the event in a big comfy chair? He's still emotional? Trump is so sensitive and emotional that 3 weeks after the disaster he still doesn't really control what he says?

Damn, not sure that's better...

Let me repeat, have you yourself ever walked through a hurricane devastated area?

No. How is it relevant though?

[Spendulus]

Have you ever walked around a place a hurricane has hit a few days later? I can totally imagine a person saying those sorts of things over and over.

Talk like "Such extreme meteorological events..." is more like academic eggheads prattling.

That COULD be an explanation if he was giving an interview from where the hurricane hit, or right after visiting the place. Some kind of emotional mistake yeah.

But I think there is one speech where he does it, so ok let's say that was emotion. And the 7 other times? When he talks about it days if not weeks after the event in a big comfy chair? He's still emotional? Trump is so sensitive and emotional that 3 weeks after the disaster he still doesn't really control what he says?

Damn, not sure that's better...

Let me repeat, have you yourself ever walked through a hurricane devastated area?

No. How is it relevant though?

I'm sure you hate fake, lying policians as much as I do.

But everyone can agree that Trump just says and blurts things pretty much on the moment, often without his own best interest and almost like he doesn't care about making mistakes.

Not sure that's lying, more just like the way he is.

[Cnut237]

But everyone can agree that Trump just says and blurts things pretty much on the moment, often without his own best interest and almost like he doesn't care about making mistakes.

Not sure that's lying, more just like the way he is.

I don't know. I still think my explanation above is plausible, but I can certainly concede that it might just be that the rise of social media and 24 hours news culture has created a climate where people such as Trump (or in the UK the eerily similar Boris Johnson) will just rise to the top. I don't think either Trump or Johnson is particularly intelligent, so perhaps it's not all orchestrated and we are in fact in an era where the ego-maniac attention-seeking bullshitting sociopaths reign supreme.

The old saying is that we get the politicians we deserve; perhaps it is true that the society we have created is one where these people represent the pinnacle, as horrific as is sounds.

Either it's my way, or your way, or indeed probably a mixture of both, some ad-libbed idiocy and some carefully choreographed by advisors. We can't really say for certain, and we are kept guessing...

[Spendulus]

But everyone can agree that Trump just says and blurts things pretty much on the moment, often without his own best interest and almost like he doesn't care about making mistakes.

Not sure that's lying, more just like the way he is.

I don't know. I still think my explanation above is plausible, but I can certainly concede that it might just be that the rise of social media and 24 hours news culture has created a climate where people such as Trump (or in the UK the eerily similar Boris Johnson) will just rise to the top. I don't think either Trump or Johnson is particularly intelligent, so perhaps it's not all orchestrated and we are in fact in an era where the ego-maniac attention-seeking bullshitting sociopaths reign supreme.

The old saying is that we get the politicians we deserve; perhaps it is true that the society we have created is one where these people represent the pinnacle, as horrific as is sounds.

(re bolded) Unrelated to this thread, last couple weeks I have been wondering about the extent of structural modifications to cultural and social discourse that may occur as a result of the sort of things that twitter does. Seems to be mostly changes in bad directions...

RE (I don't think either Trump or Johnson is particularly intelligent) my opinion of Trump is sort of he's like a near-autistic high level genius. That would explain poor social skills and high achievement. I have worked with several people who were similar, that's why I put it this way.

[BADecker]

But everyone can agree that Trump just says and blurts things pretty much on the moment, often without his own best interest and almost like he doesn't care about making mistakes.

Not sure that's lying, more just like the way he is.

I don't know. I still think my explanation above is plausible, but I can certainly concede that it might just be that the rise of social media and 24 hours news culture has created a climate where people such as Trump (or in the UK the eerily similar Boris Johnson) will just rise to the top. I don't think either Trump or Johnson is particularly intelligent, so perhaps it's not all orchestrated and we are in fact in an era where the ego-maniac attention-seeking bullshitting sociopaths reign supreme.

The old saying is that we get the politicians we deserve; perhaps it is true that the society we have created is one where these people represent the pinnacle, as horrific as is sounds.

(re bolded) Unrelated to this thread, last couple weeks I have been wondering about the extent of structural modifications to cultural and social discourse that may occur as a result of the sort of things that twitter does. Seems to be mostly changes in bad directions...

RE (I don't think either Trump or Johnson is particularly intelligent) my opinion of Trump is sort of he's like a near-autistic high level genius. That would explain poor social skills and high achievement. I have worked with several people who were similar, that's why I put it this way.

What's important is how intelligent Trump's team thinks he is. We know what the Dems think, already... that he is a worthy opponent, no matter his intelligence. That's why they fight him so hard. He (and his team) are destroying the things they (the Dems) have so determinedly built for decades.

[Cnut237]

Here's some evidence which I think backs up my previous point about intentionality and the speed with which each lie is replaced by a new one. It's interesting how the lies peak at just about the time of the 2018 mid-terms - whether this is just related to increased media exposure at that time is difficult to say, but it's an interesting coincidence at least.
(BTW I think the x-axis extends past the end of the data - no-one is suggesting that he stopped lying entirely in June! )

[BADecker]

Here's some evidence which I think backs up my previous point about intentionality and the speed with which each lie is replaced by a new one. It's interesting how the lies peak at just about the time of the 2018 mid-terms - whether this is just related to increased media exposure at that time is difficult to say, but it's an interesting coincidence at least.
(BTW I think the x-axis extends past the end of the data - no-one is suggesting that he stopped lying entirely in June! )

That's just false and misleading claims by The Washington Post and a Toronto Star graphic.

[franky1]

trump does not want the power to actually change things.
he has had many chances to make real change and hasnt

his aim is just to get the top seat of the country so that he can use it later as rep that he has been chief of the country and able to manage it. thus when going back to business he can take any position he desires

its like many people want to be promoted to superviser or manager. not to actually change how the work place works.. but just to fill in the experience and job title section of a resume/cv so they can get a better job when they are no longer working for the company

i see many people in many industries that just try to kiss ass and up play their skills for promotions but not interested in putting the work effort into their new roles. they try to back stab and lie to get their positions of notoriety. and once at the level they are happy with. then move onto other projects/industries they prefer at the same top title. but still lacking the skills to fulfil the role

they dont care what they do at that level or how they treat others they just want the title and the benefits that come with it

[Spendulus]

Here's some evidence which I think backs up my previous point about intentionality and the speed with which each lie is replaced by a new one. It's interesting how the lies peak at just about the time of the 2018 mid-terms....

All I can think of is "If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor. If you like your health plan, you can keep your health plan."

There are lies, and then there are lying liars' lies.

[Cnut237]

my opinion of Trump is sort of he's like a near-autistic high level genius. That would explain poor social skills and high achievement.

Where's the high achievement? Being born into wealth in a plutocratic society qualifies you to be president (or prime minister in the UK, hello Boris Johnson). It's not a meritocracy, you don't get to run the country by being the best person to run the country.

Trump is all bluster and front, with nothing behind it. There's barely even a guiding intelligence, he's just a petulant child consumed by avarice and a constant need for validation.

And as a businessman, his "defence" against the claim that he lost more money than any other US citizen in history is that it was just for tax purposes. Brilliant. So defrauding the country of $1b makes you the perfect person to run that country...

[BADecker]

my opinion of Trump is sort of he's like a near-autistic high level genius. That would explain poor social skills and high achievement.

Where's the high achievement? Being born into wealth in a plutocratic society qualifies you to be president (or prime minister in the UK, hello Boris Johnson). It's not a meritocracy, you don't get to run the country by being the best person to run the country.

Trump is all bluster and front, with nothing behind it. There's barely even a guiding intelligence, he's just a petulant child consumed by avarice and a constant need for validation.

And as a businessman, his "defence" against the claim that he lost more money than any other US citizen in history is that it was just for tax purposes. Brilliant. So defrauding the country of $1b makes you the perfect person to run that country...

Besides, you have been sitting in on his cabinet meetings, right? So you know the info he gleans from around the world, and the strategic info guidance he gets from other people who are way smarter than he, or you, or me, right?

[Spendulus]

my opinion of Trump is sort of he's like a near-autistic high level genius. That would explain poor social skills and high achievement.

Where's the high achievement? Being born into wealth in a plutocratic society qualifies you to be president (or prime minister in the UK, hello Boris Johnson). It's not a meritocracy, you don't get to run the country by being the best person to run the country.

Trump is all bluster and front, with nothing behind it. There's barely even a guiding intelligence, he's just a petulant child consumed by avarice and a constant need for validation.

And as a businessman, his "defence" against the claim that he lost more money than any other US citizen in history is that it was just for tax purposes. Brilliant. So defrauding the country of $1b makes you the perfect person to run that country...

I read that article, and I'm seriously not impressed with it's arguments or logic. Here are a couple of examples.

Mr. Trump was able to lose all that money without facing the usual consequences — such as a steep drop in his standard of living — in part because most of it belonged to others, to the banks and bond investors who had supplied the cash to fuel his acquisitions. ...

Well Duh... Then it wasn't his losses! Those losses were passed through to the investors. An investor group shares in profits and in losses.

Some fraction of that ocean of red ink represented depreciation on Mr. Trump’s real estate. One of the most valuable special benefits in the tax code, depreciation lets owners of commercial real estate write down the cost of their buildings.

Depreciation is taken by everyone who has businesses. Today on commercial, it's the least lenient. Straight line for 37 years, less than 3% per year. Granted, this article goes way back and tax law may have been different.

Generally, speaking, though. This kind of a comment, "There's barely even a guiding intelligence, he's just a petulant child consumed by avarice and a constant need for validation."

Seriously? Go back and study his performance in the debates. Sounds like you just want to have an anti-Trump bitch and gripe thread, not one specifically about his purported lying?

Just asking...I'm not particularly interested in trump vs anti trump bitch and gripe.