Why the denial?

[corebob]

I don't get it. Why does people like this guy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3bGAtDzEPo

insist that they didn't tuck away a good lump of bitcoins?

[S4VV4S]

I stopped at around 3:50 when he said (practically) that Bitcoin has no value.

Show this idiot this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFDe5kUUyT0

[remotemass]

I stopped at around 3:50 when he said (practically) that Bitcoin has no value.

I watched it and found it quite brilliant from the beginning till the end.
I think he was just saying that it is not physical and tangible like a piece of metal would be. Sure.
He doesn't say that you don't hold value with it.

[amspir]

I stopped at around 3:50 when he said (practically) that Bitcoin has no value.

I watched it and found it quite brilliant from the beginning till the end.
I think he was just saying that it is not physical and tangible like a piece of metal would be. Sure.
He doesn't say that you don't hold value with it.

Kinda like a piece of cotton-paper with a portrait of a dead president and numbers on it?  Maybe with a fancy hologram?

[Broseph Stalin]

Didn't watch the video, but most of the fiat money in our bank accounts isn't physical either.
When the head of the national bank in my country (that prints money) was asked how much there was of our currency, his reply was: "In actual physical currency, such as bills and coins, about 100 billion. In total? There's really no way of knowing."

[amspir]

Didn't watch the video, but most of the fiat money in our bank accounts isn't physical either.
When the head of the national bank in my country (that prints money) was asked how much there was of our currency, his reply was: "In actual physical currency, such as bills and coins, about 100 billion. In total? There's really no way of knowing."

With USD, the M2 money supply is estimated 10.6 trillion USD, while the monetary base is only 3 trillion USD.

It will be interesting to see if bitcoin ever develops a fractional banking system and an M2 money supply.  I don't think it's possible, unless bitcoin becomes inflationary instead of deflationary.

[IrishFutbol]

Didn't watch the video, but most of the fiat money in our bank accounts isn't physical either.
When the head of the national bank in my country (that prints money) was asked how much there was of our currency, his reply was: "In actual physical currency, such as bills and coins, about 100 billion. In total? There's really no way of knowing."

With USD, the M2 money supply is estimated 10.6 trillion USD, while the monetary base is only 3 trillion USD.

It will be interesting to see if bitcoin ever develops a fractional banking system and an M2 money supply.  I don't think it's possible, unless bitcoin becomes inflationary instead of deflationary.

This will be BTC's biggest problem.  An economy without a fractional reserve system is impossible.  From payday loans to mortgages, people need to borrow money, and as soon as a loan occurs, the total money supply is increased.  And without any entity to control the M1 supply, BTC will be subject to wild valuation swings as the economy goes up and down. 

As much as people don't like it, there's a purpose behind the national banks printing money out of nowhere.

[remotemass]

This will be BTC's biggest problem.  An economy without a fractional reserve system is impossible.  From payday loans to mortgages, people need to borrow money, and as soon as a loan occurs, the total money supply is increased.  And without any entity to control the M1 supply, BTC will be subject to wild valuation swings as the economy goes up and down. 

As much as people don't like it, there's a purpose behind the national banks printing money out of nowhere.

You forget about things like smart propriety, crowdfunding banking, etc.
The end of fractional reserve banking is the most liberating thing possible for the Economy. Ownership will take new forms as people get to be much more in control of what they own. It will be an economy for the people instead of an economy just for a few powerful ones.
This is just the beginning. The Age of Spiritual Machines, DACs, Autonomous Agents, etc. will be huge. For the first time Economy will make sense and be ruled by intelligence, making us all live in extreme abundance and in a highly productive society of nations, machines and DACs.
It will be an Admirable New World, an Utopia, Eden, Paradise Engineering on Earth...

[MicroGuy]

I stopped at around 3:50 when he said (practically) that Bitcoin has no value.

I stopped at 0:02 when he said "tumultuous".  

[seriouscoin]

Didn't watch the video, but most of the fiat money in our bank accounts isn't physical either.
When the head of the national bank in my country (that prints money) was asked how much there was of our currency, his reply was: "In actual physical currency, such as bills and coins, about 100 billion. In total? There's really no way of knowing."

With USD, the M2 money supply is estimated 10.6 trillion USD, while the monetary base is only 3 trillion USD.

It will be interesting to see if bitcoin ever develops a fractional banking system and an M2 money supply.  I don't think it's possible, unless bitcoin becomes inflationary instead of deflationary.

This will be BTC's biggest problem.  An economy without a fractional reserve system is impossible.  From payday loans to mortgages, people need to borrow money, and as soon as a loan occurs, the total money supply is increased.  And without any entity to control the M1 supply, BTC will be subject to wild valuation swings as the economy goes up and down. 

As much as people don't like it, there's a purpose behind the national banks printing money out of nowhere.

Its time for you to go back to school. You've been brainwashed.

Loan does not have to come in a form of fiat money (printing it out of thin air). Do you really think Bank "loans" you money to buy your house? No they're just working around the deeds and boom, you're the new owner.

[IrishFutbol]

Didn't watch the video, but most of the fiat money in our bank accounts isn't physical either.
When the head of the national bank in my country (that prints money) was asked how much there was of our currency, his reply was: "In actual physical currency, such as bills and coins, about 100 billion. In total? There's really no way of knowing."

With USD, the M2 money supply is estimated 10.6 trillion USD, while the monetary base is only 3 trillion USD.

It will be interesting to see if bitcoin ever develops a fractional banking system and an M2 money supply.  I don't think it's possible, unless bitcoin becomes inflationary instead of deflationary.

This will be BTC's biggest problem.  An economy without a fractional reserve system is impossible.  From payday loans to mortgages, people need to borrow money, and as soon as a loan occurs, the total money supply is increased.  And without any entity to control the M1 supply, BTC will be subject to wild valuation swings as the economy goes up and down. 

As much as people don't like it, there's a purpose behind the national banks printing money out of nowhere.

Its time for you to go back to school. You've been brainwashed.

Loan does not have to come in a form of fiat money (printing it out of thin air). Do you really think Bank "loans" you money to buy your house? No they're just working around the deeds and boom, you're the new owner.

Maybe you need to go back to school.

Yes, a loan doesn't depend on fiat money.  Never said it did.  The issue is how much gets borrowed and lent.

When an economy goes down, people get conservative.  When people get conservative, they borrow less and lend less.  When the economy goes up, the opposite happens.  This impacts total money supply as when people lend more, there is more money floating around (ex: Person A has $100, they lend $90 to person B, so now there's $190 worth of money).

Hypothetically, lets assume the following:
-When an economy is strong, there are 20 dollars floating around for every actual dollar printed. 
-When an economy is weak, there are 10 dollars floating around for every actual dollar printed.
-An economy needs $200 of money floating at all times around to properly function.

The advantage of fiat is that a government can increase or decrease the money supply (buy buying or selling bonds) in order to keep prices stable.  If the economy is weak, they can print $20, and the economy will be fine (20 x 10).  When the economy gets strong, they sell $10 worth of bonds (and pull $10 out of the market), and the economy will still be fine (10 x 20). 

The problem with BTC is that it cannot do this.  There will be a set number of BTC in existence.  So every time the economy does something other than remain stable, you're going to have major problems as companies try to react to a currency that's flying across the board.  Think of places like Brazil where they have to change their prices daily/weekly (though you may see price decreases as well as increases).  Not to mention that we would be in a depression right now if it wasn't for the ability of fiat governments to massively print money in 07/08. 

BTC can thrive as a gold like commodity, but it's not going to replace fiat any time soon.  The one thing you absolutely never want in an economy is a supply restriction on money, and this can easily happen in a BTC economy.  You're far too blind to the positive aspects of central banks in your thinking.

[seriouscoin]

Didn't watch the video, but most of the fiat money in our bank accounts isn't physical either.
When the head of the national bank in my country (that prints money) was asked how much there was of our currency, his reply was: "In actual physical currency, such as bills and coins, about 100 billion. In total? There's really no way of knowing."

With USD, the M2 money supply is estimated 10.6 trillion USD, while the monetary base is only 3 trillion USD.

It will be interesting to see if bitcoin ever develops a fractional banking system and an M2 money supply.  I don't think it's possible, unless bitcoin becomes inflationary instead of deflationary.

This will be BTC's biggest problem.  An economy without a fractional reserve system is impossible.  From payday loans to mortgages, people need to borrow money, and as soon as a loan occurs, the total money supply is increased.  And without any entity to control the M1 supply, BTC will be subject to wild valuation swings as the economy goes up and down.  

As much as people don't like it, there's a purpose behind the national banks printing money out of nowhere.

Its time for you to go back to school. You've been brainwashed.

Loan does not have to come in a form of fiat money (printing it out of thin air). Do you really think Bank "loans" you money to buy your house? No they're just working around the deeds and boom, you're the new owner.

Maybe you need to go back to school.

Yes, a loan doesn't depend on fiat money.  Never said it did.  The issue is how much gets borrowed and lent.

When an economy goes down, people get conservative.  When people get conservative, they borrow less and lend less.  When the economy goes up, the opposite happens.  This impacts total money supply as when people lend more, there is more money floating around (ex: Person A has $100, they lend $90 to person B, so now there's $190 worth of money).

Hypothetically, lets assume the following:
-When an economy is strong, there are 20 dollars floating around for every actual dollar printed.  
-When an economy is weak, there are 10 dollars floating around for every actual dollar printed.
-An economy needs $200 of money floating at all times around to properly function.

The advantage of fiat is that a government can increase or decrease the money supply (buy buying or selling bonds) in order to keep prices stable.  If the economy is weak, they can print $20, and the economy will be fine (20 x 10).  When the economy gets strong, they sell $10 worth of bonds (and pull $10 out of the market), and the economy will still be fine (10 x 20).  

The problem with BTC is that it cannot do this.  There will be a set number of BTC in existence.  So every time the economy does something other than remain stable, you're going to have major problems as companies try to react to a currency that's flying across the board.  Think of places like Brazil where they have to change their prices daily/weekly (though you may see price decreases as well as increases).  Not to mention that we would be in a depression right now if it wasn't for the ability of fiat governments to massively print money in 07/08.  

BTC can thrive as a gold like commodity, but it's not going to replace fiat any time soon.  The one thing you absolutely never want in an economy is a supply restriction on money, and this can easily happen in a BTC economy.  You're far too blind to the positive aspects of central banks in your thinking.

You talk too much, yet repeating the same old garbage thats being fed every year. It just shows how brainwashed you are.
Let me ask you one simple question

What is money supposed to represent?

[dead_bit]

Didn't watch the video, but most of the fiat money in our bank accounts isn't physical either.
When the head of the national bank in my country (that prints money) was asked how much there was of our currency, his reply was: "In actual physical currency, such as bills and coins, about 100 billion. In total? There's really no way of knowing."

With USD, the M2 money supply is estimated 10.6 trillion USD, while the monetary base is only 3 trillion USD.

It will be interesting to see if bitcoin ever develops a fractional banking system and an M2 money supply.  I don't think it's possible, unless bitcoin becomes inflationary instead of deflationary.

This will be BTC's biggest problem.  An economy without a fractional reserve system is impossible.  From payday loans to mortgages, people need to borrow money, and as soon as a loan occurs, the total money supply is increased.  And without any entity to control the M1 supply, BTC will be subject to wild valuation swings as the economy goes up and down.  

As much as people don't like it, there's a purpose behind the national banks printing money out of nowhere.

Its time for you to go back to school. You've been brainwashed.

Loan does not have to come in a form of fiat money (printing it out of thin air). Do you really think Bank "loans" you money to buy your house? No they're just working around the deeds and boom, you're the new owner.

Maybe you need to go back to school.

Yes, a loan doesn't depend on fiat money.  Never said it did.  The issue is how much gets borrowed and lent.

When an economy goes down, people get conservative.  When people get conservative, they borrow less and lend less.  When the economy goes up, the opposite happens.  This impacts total money supply as when people lend more, there is more money floating around (ex: Person A has $100, they lend $90 to person B, so now there's $190 worth of money).

Hypothetically, lets assume the following:
-When an economy is strong, there are 20 dollars floating around for every actual dollar printed.  
-When an economy is weak, there are 10 dollars floating around for every actual dollar printed.
-An economy needs $200 of money floating at all times around to properly function.

The advantage of fiat is that a government can increase or decrease the money supply (buy buying or selling bonds) in order to keep prices stable.  If the economy is weak, they can print $20, and the economy will be fine (20 x 10).  When the economy gets strong, they sell $10 worth of bonds (and pull $10 out of the market), and the economy will still be fine (10 x 20).  

The problem with BTC is that it cannot do this.  There will be a set number of BTC in existence.  So every time the economy does something other than remain stable, you're going to have major problems as companies try to react to a currency that's flying across the board.  Think of places like Brazil where they have to change their prices daily/weekly (though you may see price decreases as well as increases).  Not to mention that we would be in a depression right now if it wasn't for the ability of fiat governments to massively print money in 07/08.  

BTC can thrive as a gold like commodity, but it's not going to replace fiat any time soon.  The one thing you absolutely never want in an economy is a supply restriction on money, and this can easily happen in a BTC economy.  You're far too blind to the positive aspects of central banks in your thinking.

You talk too much, yet repeating the same old garbage thats being fed every year. It just shows how brainwashed you are.
Let me ask you one simple question

What is money supposed to represent?

Do you have something other than "You're brainwashed" to bring to the discussion? I understand where the burden of proof may lie but that doesn't mean that your personal attack is a counterpoint.

Ok... prove he's brainwashed.

[amspir]

Loan does not have to come in a form of fiat money (printing it out of thin air). Do you really think Bank "loans" you money to buy your house? No they're just working around the deeds and boom, you're the new owner.

Assume that bitcoin is ubiquitous and has undergone mass adoption.  Assume that there is a mostly non-volatile rate of deflation, that is, a bitcoin today will buy slightly more stuff in a year that it did the year before, because people lose private keys and bitcoins are destroyed at a rate that outpaces mining.

How would you make a bitcoin loan work?  Obviously the borrower would have to pay an interest rate to give incentive to lender to not hold the money, but it means the actual interest rate (nominal +/- ...flation) would always be above the deflation rate of the currency, as you would be fool to take the risk of loaning bitcoin at a zero or negative nominal interest rate.

With a deflationary currency, would wage earners have to take a yearly pay cut?

[seriouscoin]

Didn't watch the video, but most of the fiat money in our bank accounts isn't physical either.
When the head of the national bank in my country (that prints money) was asked how much there was of our currency, his reply was: "In actual physical currency, such as bills and coins, about 100 billion. In total? There's really no way of knowing."

With USD, the M2 money supply is estimated 10.6 trillion USD, while the monetary base is only 3 trillion USD.

It will be interesting to see if bitcoin ever develops a fractional banking system and an M2 money supply.  I don't think it's possible, unless bitcoin becomes inflationary instead of deflationary.

This will be BTC's biggest problem.  An economy without a fractional reserve system is impossible.  From payday loans to mortgages, people need to borrow money, and as soon as a loan occurs, the total money supply is increased.  And without any entity to control the M1 supply, BTC will be subject to wild valuation swings as the economy goes up and down.  

As much as people don't like it, there's a purpose behind the national banks printing money out of nowhere.

Its time for you to go back to school. You've been brainwashed.

Loan does not have to come in a form of fiat money (printing it out of thin air). Do you really think Bank "loans" you money to buy your house? No they're just working around the deeds and boom, you're the new owner.

Maybe you need to go back to school.

Yes, a loan doesn't depend on fiat money.  Never said it did.  The issue is how much gets borrowed and lent.

When an economy goes down, people get conservative.  When people get conservative, they borrow less and lend less.  When the economy goes up, the opposite happens.  This impacts total money supply as when people lend more, there is more money floating around (ex: Person A has $100, they lend $90 to person B, so now there's $190 worth of money).

Hypothetically, lets assume the following:
-When an economy is strong, there are 20 dollars floating around for every actual dollar printed.  
-When an economy is weak, there are 10 dollars floating around for every actual dollar printed.
-An economy needs $200 of money floating at all times around to properly function.

The advantage of fiat is that a government can increase or decrease the money supply (buy buying or selling bonds) in order to keep prices stable.  If the economy is weak, they can print $20, and the economy will be fine (20 x 10).  When the economy gets strong, they sell $10 worth of bonds (and pull $10 out of the market), and the economy will still be fine (10 x 20).  

The problem with BTC is that it cannot do this.  There will be a set number of BTC in existence.  So every time the economy does something other than remain stable, you're going to have major problems as companies try to react to a currency that's flying across the board.  Think of places like Brazil where they have to change their prices daily/weekly (though you may see price decreases as well as increases).  Not to mention that we would be in a depression right now if it wasn't for the ability of fiat governments to massively print money in 07/08.  

BTC can thrive as a gold like commodity, but it's not going to replace fiat any time soon.  The one thing you absolutely never want in an economy is a supply restriction on money, and this can easily happen in a BTC economy.  You're far too blind to the positive aspects of central banks in your thinking.

You talk too much, yet repeating the same old garbage thats being fed every year. It just shows how brainwashed you are.
Let me ask you one simple question

What is money supposed to represent?

Do you have something other than "You're brainwashed" to bring to the discussion? I understand where the burden of proof may lie but that doesn't mean that your personal attack is a counterpoint.

Ok... prove he's brainwashed.

You really need proof? The whole damn post is the proof.. Let me pin it down a little closer for you :

The advantage of fiat is that a government can increase or decrease the money supply (buy buying or selling bonds) in order to keep prices stable.  If the economy is weak, they can print $20, and the economy will be fine (20 x 10).  When the economy gets strong, they sell $10 worth of bonds (and pull $10 out of the market), and the economy will still be fine (10 x 20).  

Typical txtbook talk right there. The bold part is just too funny.
Sure it must have been working awsome right?

[seriouscoin]

Loan does not have to come in a form of fiat money (printing it out of thin air). Do you really think Bank "loans" you money to buy your house? No they're just working around the deeds and boom, you're the new owner.

Assume that bitcoin is ubiquitous and has undergone mass adoption.  Assume that there is a mostly non-volatile rate of deflation, that is, a bitcoin today will buy slightly more stuff in a year that it did the year before, because people lose private keys and bitcoins are destroyed at a rate that outpaces mining.

How would you make a bitcoin loan work?  Obviously the borrower would have to pay an interest rate to give incentive to lender to not hold the money, but it means the actual interest rate (nominal +/- ...flation) would always be above the deflation rate of the currency, as you would be fool to take the risk of loaning bitcoin at a zero or negative nominal interest rate.

With a deflationary currency, would wage earners have to take a yearly pay cut?

If the loan doesnt come in a form of "money", what makes you think the interest will be in the form of "money"

Again what does money represent? Just go back to a root of why money was invented in the first place.

Bitcoin at its core is a public ledger. Currency is just one of its application.

[amspir]

If the loan doesnt come in a form of "money", what makes you think the interest will be in the form of "money"

I don't get what you are saying -- can you provide an example of how one would pay interest on a loan, not in the currency from that loan is made?  Indentured servitude?  Prima nocta rights?

[IrishFutbol]

Didn't watch the video, but most of the fiat money in our bank accounts isn't physical either.
When the head of the national bank in my country (that prints money) was asked how much there was of our currency, his reply was: "In actual physical currency, such as bills and coins, about 100 billion. In total? There's really no way of knowing."

With USD, the M2 money supply is estimated 10.6 trillion USD, while the monetary base is only 3 trillion USD.

It will be interesting to see if bitcoin ever develops a fractional banking system and an M2 money supply.  I don't think it's possible, unless bitcoin becomes inflationary instead of deflationary.

This will be BTC's biggest problem.  An economy without a fractional reserve system is impossible.  From payday loans to mortgages, people need to borrow money, and as soon as a loan occurs, the total money supply is increased.  And without any entity to control the M1 supply, BTC will be subject to wild valuation swings as the economy goes up and down.  

As much as people don't like it, there's a purpose behind the national banks printing money out of nowhere.

Its time for you to go back to school. You've been brainwashed.

Loan does not have to come in a form of fiat money (printing it out of thin air). Do you really think Bank "loans" you money to buy your house? No they're just working around the deeds and boom, you're the new owner.

Maybe you need to go back to school.

Yes, a loan doesn't depend on fiat money.  Never said it did.  The issue is how much gets borrowed and lent.

When an economy goes down, people get conservative.  When people get conservative, they borrow less and lend less.  When the economy goes up, the opposite happens.  This impacts total money supply as when people lend more, there is more money floating around (ex: Person A has $100, they lend $90 to person B, so now there's $190 worth of money).

Hypothetically, lets assume the following:
-When an economy is strong, there are 20 dollars floating around for every actual dollar printed.  
-When an economy is weak, there are 10 dollars floating around for every actual dollar printed.
-An economy needs $200 of money floating at all times around to properly function.

The advantage of fiat is that a government can increase or decrease the money supply (buy buying or selling bonds) in order to keep prices stable.  If the economy is weak, they can print $20, and the economy will be fine (20 x 10).  When the economy gets strong, they sell $10 worth of bonds (and pull $10 out of the market), and the economy will still be fine (10 x 20).  

The problem with BTC is that it cannot do this.  There will be a set number of BTC in existence.  So every time the economy does something other than remain stable, you're going to have major problems as companies try to react to a currency that's flying across the board.  Think of places like Brazil where they have to change their prices daily/weekly (though you may see price decreases as well as increases).  Not to mention that we would be in a depression right now if it wasn't for the ability of fiat governments to massively print money in 07/08.  

BTC can thrive as a gold like commodity, but it's not going to replace fiat any time soon.  The one thing you absolutely never want in an economy is a supply restriction on money, and this can easily happen in a BTC economy.  You're far too blind to the positive aspects of central banks in your thinking.

You talk too much, yet repeating the same old garbage thats being fed every year. It just shows how brainwashed you are.
Let me ask you one simple question

What is money supposed to represent?

You want so badly to live in a fantasy world and hide from reality.  You're like a toddler who thinks that when they cover their own eyes, no one can see them.

You're dreaming about your BTC will usher in a new era, the wave of the future, down with evil fiat and brainwashed cultures, etc ideals, all the while refusing to open a single history book and blindly ignoring centuries of problems with economies like your dream world.

[CoinCube]

Maybe you need to go back to school.

Yes, a loan doesn't depend on fiat money.  Never said it did.  The issue is how much gets borrowed and lent.

When an economy goes down, people get conservative.  When people get conservative, they borrow less and lend less.  When the economy goes up, the opposite happens.  This impacts total money supply as when people lend more, there is more money floating around (ex: Person A has $100, they lend $90 to person B, so now there's $190 worth of money).

Hypothetically, lets assume the following:
-When an economy is strong, there are 20 dollars floating around for every actual dollar printed.  
-When an economy is weak, there are 10 dollars floating around for every actual dollar printed.
-An economy needs $200 of money floating at all times around to properly function.

The advantage of fiat is that a government can increase or decrease the money supply (buy buying or selling bonds) in order to keep prices stable.  If the economy is weak, they can print $20, and the economy will be fine (20 x 10).  When the economy gets strong, they sell $10 worth of bonds (and pull $10 out of the market), and the economy will still be fine (10 x 20).  

The problem with BTC is that it cannot do this.  There will be a set number of BTC in existence.  So every time the economy does something other than remain stable, you're going to have major problems as companies try to react to a currency that's flying across the board.  Think of places like Brazil where they have to change their prices daily/weekly (though you may see price decreases as well as increases).  Not to mention that we would be in a depression right now if it wasn't for the ability of fiat governments to massively print money in 07/08.  

BTC can thrive as a gold like commodity, but it's not going to replace fiat any time soon.  The one thing you absolutely never want in an economy is a supply restriction on money, and this can easily happen in a BTC economy.  You're far too blind to the positive aspects of central banks in your thinking.

This is classic Keynes-Fisher macroeconomics or KFM. The problem is that KFM is horribly flawed. You are correct in your description of the business cycle, but the proper role for government to mediate these cycles is not to issue debt but to tax and save money during the boom times and spend it during the bust.

Yet this never seems to happen. Instead we accumulate debt during the good times and accumulate even more debt during the busts. The result is a fundamentally unstable system that will eventually fail. There is no need for a fiat currency. Instead what we need is less collectivism and better governance. As neither of these are going to happen we will all get a front row seat as we watch the collapse of KFM.

Fur a complete explanation I would refer readers to the Economic Devastation thread.


 
  

[CoinCube]

... From payday loans to mortgages, people need to borrow money ...  

No they don't "need" that.
They may be used to do it, and it will be painful when they no longer can, but they will adapt.

Americans used to understand

Gentlemen! I too have been a close observer of the doings of the Bank of the United States. I have had men watching you for a long time, and am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I have determined to rout you out, and by the Eternal, (bringing his fist down on the table) I will rout you out!

From the original minutes of the Philadelphia committee of citizens sent to meet with President Jackson (February 1834)

When asked what his greatest accomplishment as president was Jackson replied simply "I killed the bank"
It took 77 years for a central bank to reemerge.

A nice video for those interested can be found here
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread685271/pg1