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Author Topic: Hong Kong protestors call for sanctions against HSBC bank  (Read 250 times)
Hydrogen
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December 25, 2019, 08:33:34 AM
 #1

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Thousands gathered in downtown Hong Kong on Monday night for a rally to condemn a police crackdown on a major fundraising platform for anti-government protesters and to call for sanctions against HSBC, which shut down its account earlier.

Before the authorised rally began at 7pm in Central, there were minor scuffles between protesters and riot police at a nearby pedestrian underpass, when officers checked booths distributing masks to participants. As police left the scene, they were verbally abused by protesters.
The organiser estimated 45,000 joined the assembly in Edinburgh Place, near the bank’s Hong Kong headquarters. Police put the turnout at 3,300.

Last Thursday, police froze about HK$70 million (US$9 million) raised by activists via the Spark Alliance platform to support protesters and arrested four people for money laundering.

Officers suspect the funds were used for personal gain and other illegal activities, including participation rewards for young demonstrators.
But Sunny Cheung, one of the organisers of Monday’s “Sparking the World Afire Assembly” and spokesman for a group called Hong Kong Higher Education International Affairs Delegation, said the police’s action was arbitrary.

“This is actually detrimental to Hong Kong’s status as an international financial hub,” Cheung said. “We condemn the government for using politics to override the economy.”

The organiser also called for action against HSBC, which closed Spark Alliance’s bank account in November. Cheung urged the US government and businesses to sanction or boycott the banking giant.

Earlier, in a rare statement and without stating names, the city’s largest bank said the decision to shut down the account was in accordance with international regulatory standards.

Ventus Lau Wing-hong, another of the assembly’s organisers, said freezing the bank account would not lessen support for the protests.
“For any of us who have donated to Spark Alliance, we could now be labelled as criminals,” Lau said. “But that does not scare us.”

He said Spark Alliance was formed out of a belief for revolution, to support frontline protesters and go against the tyranny of political and business pressure.

A 52-year-old saleswoman, who gave her name as Catherine, said she had donated a few hundred dollars to Spark Alliance when she joined peaceful gatherings in the past.

“The money I donated came from my own hard work at my job, it’s not ‘black money’ at all,” she said. “Police are just using any excuse to cut off support for the young protesters.”

A clerk in her thirties, who only gave her surname as Cheung, made a one-off donation of about HK$1,000 to Spark Alliance via an interbank online payment system.

“Even though I made my donation through the bank, I still have a thin line of trust that my account activities will not be handed over to police,” she said.

Cheung, who holds an HSBC account, said she was considering switching to another bank.

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/politics/article/3043325/thousands-join-hong-kong-rally-condemn-crackdown


....


Hong Kong protest groups were accused of money laundering. People were arrested and accounts were shut down. Perhaps similar to crypto being described as a "safe haven for criminals and money launderers" whenever the mainstream media needs to create generic content to push a negative publicity campaign against it.

International banking cartels would appear to universally oppose populist independence movements like brexit and hong kong. Banks appear to side with china and the left politically. I hope this information is useful in helping people to decipher a motive behind certain policies and angles being supported. And helps people to make better and more informed decisions.

If anyone agrees or disagrees, I would be interested to hear why.

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December 25, 2019, 08:10:04 PM
 #2

HSBC has no choice but to comply with what China government wants! Freezing an account of a consumer is not a decision what banks love to take! Because they can't use that fund but still have to maintain an account number in their books. That's a loss for the banks.

I believe HSBC is just trying to balance out things for themselves and hence they are forced to freeze accounts of the protesters in the name of illegal usage of banking channel. HSBC is trying not to make the Dragon angry!

This is one of such scenarios where we understand the need of cryptos in naked eye!

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December 25, 2019, 08:26:53 PM
 #3



HSBC is force to freeze the account because the government of China probably ordered to.  I don't get what they are protesting though when all these are taking place no matter how much protest to be made. If the Chinese government takes over they can't do anything about it. Hongkong will still belong to China and no money has to be spent, they don't have to waste money for protest to continue.


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LeGaulois
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December 25, 2019, 08:44:34 PM
Last edit: December 25, 2019, 09:03:46 PM by LeGaulois
Merited by Hydrogen (1)
 #4

Well, HSBC has been involved in so many money laundering scandals, like during the Panama Papers, (but the bank is well known for that well before) with millions of dollars in fines. It doesn't hurt to abide by the laws, but in this case, it's rather to make a government happy. Especially since Hong kong is highly reputed in the finance industry, they don't want troubles there I guess.
Can't blame HSBC, as the article points out, it acted following the intl. regulatory standards. The blame is, again, on the politicians abusing the power to reduce the citizen's freedom.

I remember we had a similar situation in my country during the Yellow Vests, but the media outlet just tried to install the negativity... again...
The banking cartel goes where the situation is more comfortable, as always #followthemoney. And it's not always on the governments' side. There are also situations where the cartel is against them (broadly speaking I mean).

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December 25, 2019, 11:50:04 PM
 #5

I mean from a business sense it makes sense that HSBC is closing accounts of people who are involved in the protests. There's no way for an international bank like HSBC to survive without the support of China and their allies in the region. They RELY on Chinese business and they know the only way to be allowed in that market is to appease the Chinese government.

But yes, from a practical point it sucks that banks are doing this. Only way around it is to unbank themselves. We do have to understand that Bitcoin isn't an end all be all -- as adoption isn't 'there yet' and there's too many fees as of right now.





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December 25, 2019, 11:59:56 PM
Merited by Hydrogen (1)
 #6

Come to crypto, and we can totally forget about all bank, whether it’s biggest international bank or biggest national bank or shadow banking or Paypal or alipay, any bank that you need to trust a human to manage your fund is itself full of flaws, one should never even trust anyone to safeguard your fund except yourself, it would take millions of hard earned cash loss then human would begin to learn to regret.

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December 26, 2019, 02:31:05 AM
 #7

HSBC has no choice but to comply with what China government wants! Freezing an account of a consumer is not a decision what banks love to take! Because they can't use that fund but still have to maintain an account number in their books. That's a loss for the banks.

I believe HSBC is just trying to balance out things for themselves and hence they are forced to freeze accounts of the protesters in the name of illegal usage of banking channel. HSBC is trying not to make the Dragon angry!

This is one of such scenarios where we understand the need of cryptos in naked eye!

Normally I would have said the author is right to criticise HSBC because they have blocked funds of the protesters, but then again we all know how China rules with an iron fist in thier country hence it’s no surprise that HSBC was forced into closing protestors bank account. The question we should ask is how will those protestors get their accounts restored now, is there any law out there which can help them?.

Come to crypto, and we can totally forget about all bank, whether it’s biggest international bank or biggest national bank or shadow banking or Paypal or alipay, any bank that you need to trust a human to manage your fund is itself full of flaws, one should never even trust anyone to safeguard your fund except yourself, it would take millions of hard earned cash loss then human would begin to learn to regret.

@Broly46 it’s only a matter of time before people realise the need to dump their banks, and adopt crypto’s for their daily transactions and had those protestors been smart and used crypto’s their funds would have been secured.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/spotlight-on-bitcoin-as-hsbc-shuts-hong-kong-protest-linked-account



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December 26, 2019, 04:23:33 AM
Merited by squatz1 (5)
 #8

Banks are left with no choice. They run on fiat, under the government. Non-compliance would hurt their business more. They can't pretty much do anything, since the government politicians and law enforcement could always use their power at their will. They also aren't able to support cryptocurrencies either since it is also restricted by the government.

HSBC is not in control of such, articles also states that the account closing was conducted by the police, and not voluntarily conducted by HSBC themselves.

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December 26, 2019, 07:44:45 AM
 #9

Banks are left with no choice. They run on fiat, under the government. Non-compliance would hurt their business more. They can't pretty much do anything, since the government politicians and law enforcement could always use their power at their will. They also aren't able to support cryptocurrencies either since it is also restricted by the government.

HSBC is not in control of such, articles also states that the account closing was conducted by the police, and not voluntarily conducted by HSBC themselves.

Thank you. Thank you so much for this. This is beyond true. This is regulators in countries where they operate telling them what they have to do. A bank isn't going to take a political stance towards something for no reason, they're doing it from a regulatory and a cost benefit analysis view of things. There'd be no other reason for them to do this besides that.

I WILL THANK YOU AGAIN FOR BEING BEYOND LOGICAL HERE. Most people on the board aren't.

+Merited. I'll be keeping an eye on your posts. Thanks again.




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December 26, 2019, 08:49:55 AM
 #10

I believe the protesters are fighting for their right by all means but i don't see any reason why they have to blame HSBC for closing the Spark Alliance’s bank account because they have to abide with the rules and regulations of the countries they operate in but The police accusing the group of money laundering and frozen of account was arbitrary action and i believed they were indeed trying  to cut off support for the protesters as said by the lady Catherine.


HSBC is not in control of such, articles also states that the account closing was conducted by the police, and not voluntarily conducted by HSBC themselves.
I don't know why some people think HSBC are to be blame when we both know the Chinese is run through centralized system which is also one of the main reason of the protest in the first place.

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December 26, 2019, 09:17:43 AM
 #11

I believe the protesters are fighting for their right by all means but i don't see any reason why they have to blame HSBC for closing the Spark Alliance’s bank account because they have to abide with the rules and regulations of the countries they operate in but The police accusing the group of money laundering and frozen of account was arbitrary action and i believed they were indeed trying  to cut off support for the protesters as said by the lady Catherine.


HSBC is not in control of such, articles also states that the account closing was conducted by the police, and not voluntarily conducted by HSBC themselves.
I don't know why some people think HSBC are to be blame when we both know the Chinese is run through centralized system which is also one of the main reason of the protest in the first place.

The Hong kong government will do everything to prosecute even using their control of the bank, I agree with all the posters here that HSBC is not to blame because they are under the Central Bank of Hongkong and they cannot disobey if there are direct orders, I don't know there structure if they need a court order to open the book of transaction, but here in our country you need one.



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December 26, 2019, 09:36:03 AM
 #12






@Broly46 it’s only a matter of time before people realise the need to dump their banks, and adopt crypto’s for their daily transactions and had those protestors been smart and used crypto’s their funds would have been secured.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/spotlight-on-bitcoin-as-hsbc-shuts-hong-kong-protest-linked-account




Lol, read at all the hypocrite replies who love to defend bankster as if the populist are criminal in their eye and they’re fully supportive of govt action, what on world a business that’s so rampantly and openly depending on govt handout to make a living, I find them full of desperate, btw whether it’s is informed decision makin or not, the victim here is clearly the end users, it’s always the users at fault for anything that f*** up, the market or anything, continued their own sjw propaganda and political correctness all over the business world.

Self hating nerd that want to escape from reality into the cyberpunk.
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December 26, 2019, 10:10:26 AM
Merited by 1Referee (1)
 #13

Everyone saying banks have "no choice" in this matter. They must obey the state & government.

How do you explain the following.

#1  Banks regularly laundering money for drug cartels contrary to laws made by governments.
#2  Banks taking action, punishing entire nations like the UK for their pro brexit stance.
#3  Banks closing the accounts of US workers in the adult entertainment industry.

There are countless examples of banks implementing policies which go directly against the national interest.

I think what people are missing is banks having their own agenda and blueprint for the future which they collectively coordinate and cooperate with the media and others to enforce.

The bottom line here is china promised hong kong autonomy. That's the agreement china made. Now china seeks to bring hong kong under its own iron curtain and it would appear that banks support this. Rather than acknowledging the sovereignty of hong kong as a self governing place.

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December 26, 2019, 12:42:21 PM
 #14

Come to crypto, and we can totally forget about all bank, whether it’s biggest international bank or biggest national bank or shadow banking or Paypal or alipay, any bank that you need to trust a human to manage your fund is itself full of flaws, one should never even trust anyone to safeguard your fund except yourself, it would take millions of hard earned cash loss then human would begin to learn to regret.

I think this is the only way they can fight back with banks, be in crypto. Cryptocurrency especially bitcoin can really help a lot with the absence of banks. HSBC is in control by the government being regulated by it. They have to comply unless they are ready to lose their license.

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December 26, 2019, 12:52:06 PM
 #15

HSBC has no choice but to comply with what China government wants! Freezing an account of a consumer is not a decision what banks love to take! Because they can't use that fund but still have to maintain an account number in their books. That's a loss for the banks.

I believe HSBC is just trying to balance out things for themselves and hence they are forced to freeze accounts of the protesters in the name of illegal usage of banking channel. HSBC is trying not to make the Dragon angry!

This is one of such scenarios where we understand the need of cryptos in naked eye!

This.

HSBC tried to hold out, but their Hong Kong CEO, John Flint was forced out in August for siding with the Hong Kong protesters:

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/08/04/investing/hsbc-ceo-steps-down/index.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-08-09/hsbc-s-greater-china-chief-helen-wong-unexpectedly-resigns

Quote
The head of HSBC Holdings Plc’s key China business resigned, the latest senior management change in a week that saw Europe’s largest lender oust its top executive.

Helen Wong announced her departure as head of Greater China in July to pursue another opportunity, and this is her last day at the bank, spokeswoman Maggie Cheung said Friday. Wong, one of the bank’s most senior women, had been in the role for about four years and worked at HSBC since 1992.

Her departure caps a week that started with the ouster of former Chief Executive Officer John Flint after just 18 months in the role, with the bank saying an “increasingly complex” environment of geopolitical tensions and risks to growth demanded new leadership.

So - both of them forced out within a week after Flint made comments supportive of the protesters.

My guess is that HSBC was told that their business in China would be shut down if they didn't clamp down. Not sure there is anything they can do - John Flint tried and paid the price.

 
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December 26, 2019, 01:26:26 PM
Merited by Hydrogen (1)
 #16

How do you explain the following.

#1  Banks regularly laundering money for drug cartels contrary to laws made by governments.
#2  Banks taking action, punishing entire nations like the UK for their pro brexit stance.
#3  Banks closing the accounts of US workers in the adult entertainment industry.

There are countless examples of banks implementing policies which go directly against the national interest.

Sad reality indeed. In some cases banks do have to adhere to the laws the government has outlined, which sucks for the people in these countries, but banks always manage to break laws in other areas and get away with it. In this case I would say that the penalties are too soft because all banks do is pay a measly fine and they are free to continue operating.

Coming back to the first point you brought up, namely money laundering; the fines banks end up paying probably don't even account for 10% of the profit banks make. It's more like collateral damage to them. It's written off as a loss in their "books" even before they are fined. It's a joke. Why would they stop doing that when it's so exorbitantly profitable?

In the end, banks such as HSBC enforcing sanctions against people just do that because they have too many things going on in China that they don't want to risk losing. It's their financial incentive that goes against the incentives of the people, or more precisely said, a bunch of numbers in their database that aren't profitable to the bank. It's a mess, and people as always suffer.  Undecided
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December 26, 2019, 02:43:58 PM
Last edit: December 26, 2019, 04:39:41 PM by Yatsan
 #17

Banks are left with no choice. They run on fiat, under the government. Non-compliance would hurt their business more. They can't pretty much do anything, since the government politicians and law enforcement could always use their power at their will. They also aren't able to support cryptocurrencies either since it is also restricted by the government.

HSBC is not in control of such, articles also states that the account closing was conducted by the police, and not voluntarily conducted by HSBC themselves.
It is not that HSBC left with no choice but rather they are the one who is making the choice. Technically Hong Kong is just a part of China so whatever the China does they are affected too especially these days that Hong Kong is in fight for their freedom against China. However China doesn't have the full control on HSBC but there is a huge fraction of HSBC that is operating on China which will cost them billions if they choose to reside with Hong Kong's protesters. This is also why there is a surge on bitcoin's price in Hong Kong because of the crisis they are experiencing right now.





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justdimin
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December 26, 2019, 04:15:18 PM
 #18

I guess I kinda understand the "money laundering" charges against them, what were they suppose to say "we do not want you to have financial power" ? That is not going to happen, of course they will say something like money laundering, or any other crime really, doesn't matter what the made up crime they can throw at them the end result was to cut their financial aid and help so that protesters wouldn't have some sort of decent organization.

If you gather enough money and buy enough products then you can distribute it evenly among all protesters who need it, that is literally turning into a coup, so they just simply made up some reasons.

China has ALWAYS been bad, not just now but in its entire history since CCP started, they are not going to just let this one away, these are the same people who let 20+ million starve to death, that is more than most countries entire population, that is literally 3-4 European country combined, you think they will stop? Boycotting or sanctioning against HSBC will not make one single difference.

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Mometaskers
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December 27, 2019, 09:11:15 AM
 #19

Hong Kong protest groups were accused of money laundering. People were arrested and accounts were shut down. Perhaps similar to crypto being described as a "safe haven for criminals and money launderers" whenever the mainstream media needs to create generic content to push a negative publicity campaign against it.

Kinda funny considering HSBC itself has been charged with laundering money for Mexican cartels, which they've had to pay $1.9B in fines in the US. But yes, HSBC is in a pickle. It cannot defy the CPC.

I think this just highlights the need for crypto. These companies can just block you for whatever reason they deem "justified". For example Paypal have been going after conservative Youtubers.
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December 27, 2019, 11:01:20 AM
 #20

The faster world banks fall in the form in which they are, the faster the digital future will come. I'm not sure everyone will like it, but it will definitely swing each of us

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