Gifting satoshis to future generations

[Ilsk]

Actually the object is interesting, but will be prone to being stolen because the goods are in physical form.
I prefer digital forms online, because it's easy to access. Because the digital world will last long with the progress of the modern era.

True, but in this case I preferred to replicate the security model people are already used to with other valuables: you just have to keep it safe from thieves, and you don't have to remember passwords or mnemonics. For non-bitcoiners the main risk of losses comes from themselves, not from thieves

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[o_e_l_e_o]

Why don't you just tell the kid when he grows up the 12/24 word mnemonics? Depending on how much money we are dealing here you can probably just remember the words.

You should absolutely not be trusting your memory, especially not over a period of 20 years. You can guarantee at no point in the next 20 years you will be knocked on the head, be in a car accident, have a stroke, or any of the other 100 things that can cause memory loss? I don't think so.

When you make the wallet, just pick a mnemonic where you can piece together a poem or story and just tell it to the kid its entire life.

This is equally bad advice. You should never "pick" a seed phrase. Humans are bad at being random, and anything you pick is therefore weak. Seed phrases should be generated by your wallet from your random seed number.

[slaman29]

Why don't you just tell the kid when he grows up the 12/24 word mnemonics? Depending on how much money we are dealing here you can probably just remember the words.

You should absolutely not be trusting your memory, especially not over a period of 20 years. You can guarantee at no point in the next 20 years you will be knocked on the head, be in a car accident, have a stroke, or any of the other 100 things that can cause memory loss? I don't think so.

When you make the wallet, just pick a mnemonic where you can piece together a poem or story and just tell it to the kid its entire life.

This is equally bad advice. You should never "pick" a seed phrase. Humans are bad at being random, and anything you pick is therefore weak. Seed phrases should be generated by your wallet from your random seed number.

Memory is a difficult thing but if you teach 1 kid a rhyme of 12 words I am 100% sure he can remember it. Some things just stick with you the way ABC songs does. And if you can do it in a local language even better which is how I remember my mnemonics:) Use the local language version of it so even if international hackers try, they'll never even be able to bruteforce me;)

[Bitcoincc]

Today I found on medium this nice article by Federico Tenga about long term storing of bitcoin to be gifted to future generations.
 There are a few interesting points to be considered, some of them I completely overlooked while thinking about this very topic:

So, have a read:

Gifting satoshis to future generations

Recently I’ve been tasked to gift some satoshis to a newborn baby, who is supposed to redeem them when he grows up, about 18 years from now. The challenge was trickier than originally expected, as there are many different ways to store bitcoin, each one with different trade-offs, and at the same time it’s hard to predict the state of the Bitcoin industry two decades into the future.

https://i.imgur.com/Ht9UlN7.png
Hardware compatibility doesn’t age well

After a few thoughts he came with this solution:

https://i.imgur.com/ViOwbfy.png

Read the whole article here:

Gifting satoshis to future generations

He has an (inactive) account here on Bitcointalk, maybe if you have enough comment we can summon him back to the forum!

Life is risk. Saving bitcoin for newborn child is not bad. The coin is limited and only 4 million left to be mined and supply will reduce after halving. This can make the price to still increase in such a way the supply will decrease and the demand will increase and thereby price will increase overtime. To me, it is good because I believe at that time bitcoin will worth more than $100,000 because it is a limited coin.
But, if I am the man, I will prefer ethereum, litecoin or dash instead of bitcoin because if bitcoin price trend up, this altcoins price trend up in two to three folds compare to bitcoin. But as to what the man did, it is still perfect to me.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Memory is a difficult thing but if you teach 1 kid a rhyme of 12 words I am 100% sure he can remember it.

100% sure? Not even the smallest doubt? I don't know how old you are, but can you remember every rhyme or song you were taught in your childhood? There's not a single one you've forgotten, or even forgotten a single line to?

Also, if you teach a kid a rhyme, can you trust he or she will never repeat that rhyme in public or the presence of someone else?

Too high risk for my liking. High durability physical storage, such as metal, would be my preference for a 20 year hold.

supply will reduce after halving

It won't. The rate of increase in supply will decrease. The supply itself will continue to increase, albeit more slowly.

[longyenthanh]

The best way to gift Bitcoin to coming generations is by introducing them to bitcoin and help them in getting started with bitcoin since that’s the most difficult thing new comers faces for bitcoin. I have already handed over my bitcoin keys to my son who is 12 right now in case anything happens to me and he is loving this new technology

[veleten]

an interesting article , the same thing was discussed in the topics about how to store your coins safely
the technology might not age well , but I suspect USB sticks won't be out of date in 20 years
I'd be more worried if bitcoin itself stayed relevant , anything could happen in 20 years , it could lose its value , for example
the best way would be a form of a paper wallet , laminated and put into a water,dust etc. proof metal case and stored safely
hardware wallets , usb sticks run a risk of a malfunction more than becoming irrelevant

[tambok]

The best way to gift Bitcoin to coming generations is by introducing them to bitcoin and help them in getting started with bitcoin since that’s the most difficult thing new comers faces for bitcoin. I have already handed over my bitcoin keys to my son who is 12 right now in case anything happens to me and he is loving this new technology

If other country are introducing the blockchain at early age by studying it in school will be a good idea, so let's have those future generation to become aware what it is at a young age because there's a lot of kids right now that will create future and we might have a young satoshi with them, so let's teach while they are young .

[Aikidoka]

The best way to gift Bitcoin to coming generations is by introducing them to bitcoin and help them in getting started with bitcoin since that’s the most difficult thing new comers faces for bitcoin. I have already handed over my bitcoin keys to my son who is 12 right now in case anything happens to me and he is loving this new technology

If other country are introducing the blockchain at early age by studying it in school will be a good idea, so let's have those future generation to become aware what it is at a young age because there's a lot of kids right now that will create future and we might have a young satoshi with them, so let's teach while they are young .

It's going to be a good idea, I mean by teaching kids about Bitcoin and crypto it can make em interested in this field and maybe they can inovate it as some points. Furthermore Bitcoin will be more valuable and even stronger if a lot of people will join the community.

[Mike Mayor]

I really don’t know.
If you look at the image in the OP post the USB stick seems functional.
Maybe the author only wanted to avoid this scenario.  Or keep really simple, as said. That was his choice, not mine.
I only noted that he scrapped the need to rely on an hypothesis (the possibility to use an USB stick) going to the simplest yet more reliable form of storage.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't use a USB stick either but not because of the fear I won't be able to read it.
Just as you said, to keep things simple, and I would trust more steel than data on a usb stick.

But the fear that he is not going to be able to read it or there will be no equipment left is exaggerated.
If we right now can order a VHS player, cd player, cassette player with a click of a button then USB adaptors are safe for at least half a century.

Exactly. Another example: how many CD players are still inside modern computer devices? And we're not talking about past ages...

And you can't find one to buy? Walmart has plenty.
Again it's a fake problem.

People also catalogue and collect old technology just like we do with everything in history. You will always be able to retrieve old data from old devices. It will just be antiqued by then. I mean people still have the very first Atari game console. How long ago was that? Like 40+ years. It's not like its unheard of to buy artefacts or relics years and years old. You can also re backup the files onto the newest media every few years. It really is not an issue. In fact you should back it up again not just to keep up with the tech but also to remind yourself you still have those coins. In 18 years you can forget a lot.

[DdmrDdmr]

While I’m fine with the idea of Steel being used to store a BIP 39 24 word recovery seed, the Cryptosteel capsule does not seem a great option to me in general terms. Yeah it cool and such, but much more importantly, it should be pretty fool-proof as a premise. And it is not.

The capsule I find is too space limited. A 24 word recovery seed needs to be stored using 4 letter abbreviations (and someone then has to leave instructions as to that fact), using therefore 96 out of the 123 tiles. That does not seem to leave that much wiggle room to move tiles apart and read their values without bringing it all apart.

Here is the real danger: If the fastener you place to keep all the tiles in place is not properly adjusted (and this step is not fool-proof), and it slips, all the tiles could simply fall off the rod in a random manner, making recovery impossible. That risk defeats the purpose in my opinion, and I’d opt for another more static steel solution.

[fravia]

The best way to gift Bitcoin to coming generations is by introducing them to bitcoin and help them in getting started with bitcoin since that’s the most difficult thing new comers faces for bitcoin. I have already handed over my bitcoin keys to my son who is 12 right now in case anything happens to me and he is loving this new technology

If other country are introducing the blockchain at early age by studying it in school will be a good idea, so let's have those future generation to become aware what it is at a young age because there's a lot of kids right now that will create future and we might have a young satoshi with them, so let's teach while they are young .

It's going to be a good idea, I mean by teaching kids about Bitcoin and crypto it can make em interested in this field and maybe they can inovate it as some points. Furthermore Bitcoin will be more valuable and even stronger if a lot of people will join the community.

True that, as far as I know the innovation is really big between young people in crypto space. Some universities are actually having the new blockchain technology courses. If the person is into it from the young days then the future is definitely bright for them. Also gifting btc to children might be a great investment for the future to make a lot of money.

[1Referee]

I'd be more worried if bitcoin itself stayed relevant , anything could happen in 20 years ,

That's a fair concern, but I'm actually more concerned about fiat than Bitcoin, mainly so with how the demand for a tiny dot such as Bitcoin can only increase in the long run, thus the purchasing power of those holding it.

I think an additional demand factor for Bitcoin is the fact that physical cash is being banished slowly but surely. Bitcoin is the only digital asset that you can hold permissionlessly. In the same way, I strongly believe it will increase the demand for physical Gold because there will always be people valuing something they can actually hold.

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I'm a fan of anything that is durable and portable to be used as a wallet. I have been experimenting with steel plates that I engrave private keys in manually, and I actually like idea behind it. It's far more durable than a paper wallet, plus it can resist temperatures of ~1000 degrees celcius. Inside a safe, it's destined to last.

Steel plates cost a few bucks, and an engraving pen costs somewhere between $25-$50 brand new. Great value for money I would say.

[MURONDI]

the problem is 18 years is a long time, anything can happen in the future, not necessarily bitcoin is still growing at that time, maybe in the future there are other technologies that can shift the position of bitcoin, not to mention other problems, I myself just a few years have a lot of problems in crypto, I have several cryptos in different places, until I could no longer take it for various reasons, forgot the account, forgot the site because it's been too long not visited the site.

[yulionoo]

technology will continue to develop over time. so if we give our baby satoshi bitcoin now and keep it in a hardware wallet. I'm afraid that in the future bitcoin hardware wallets are outdated and irrelevant to the technology of the time. 18 years is a long time I am also afraid that at that time bitcoin was not as valuable as it is now. I better sell Satoshi Bitcoin to buy gold jewelry for my baby.

[AverageGlabella]

With the evolution of technology and looking back at previous products that stored data VHS, floppy disks, cds, and now USBS it is a similar pattern that eventually these technologies get dropped. VHS support has almost entirely been dropped and cds are now the new in. Well thats what we thought but now modern computers are shipping without cd drives and everything is moving to the digital world of downloading but storing a private key on the internet for it to be downloaded in the future is not a good idea at all. Luckily with Bitcoin we can create a physical copy of a private key and copy that over the a computer manually by typing that in. This is the only way of preventing issues with technology being developed and support being dropped for certain media options.

I found this quote from the article to be particularly interesting:

This is why when gifting Bitcoin the only way of doing it would be providing a private key to the recipient. The good news about providing a private key instead of storing funds on a USB is I don't see letters going out of fashion in the world of computing any time soon. I agree it could be a cool gift if it is worth something when they are older otherwise it is a pretty lame gift.

technology will continue to develop over time. so if we give our baby satoshi bitcoin now and keep it in a hardware wallet. I'm afraid that in the future bitcoin hardware wallets are outdated and irrelevant to the technology of the time. 18 years is a long time I am also afraid that at that time bitcoin was not as valuable as it is now. I better sell Satoshi Bitcoin to buy gold jewelry for my baby.

If you are worried about Bitcoin becoming obsolete why do you not have the same concerns about gold? The smart option would be to be invested in both and not have your eggs in one basket but even then both could become obsolete. What is obvious is that digital assets are becoming more and more desired as the internet and computers develop and physical items are becoming less so.

I'm a fan of anything that is durable and portable to be used as a wallet. I have been experimenting with steel plates that I engrave private keys in manually, and I actually like idea behind it. It's far more durable than a paper wallet, plus it can resist temperatures of ~1000 degrees celcius. Inside a safe, it's destined to last.

Steel plates cost a few bucks, and an engraving pen costs somewhere between $25-$50 brand new. Great value for money I would say.

Anything that is exposed to air and gravity for a long time will have changing properties. Metal plates can rust in the incorrect environment as well as be a heat conductor. Steel plates can be worn down through aging and looking at how deep you are engraving is probably worth thinking about as well as the environment that you are storing it in. Paper and steel plates would probably be ok for most of our lifetimes but if you are storing it for future generations then thinking about these things is probably a wise decisions because when it changes hands to your "heir" it might not be stored in the conditions that you stored it in.

Memory is a difficult thing but if you teach 1 kid a rhyme of 12 words I am 100% sure he can remember it. Some things just stick with you the way ABC songs does. And if you can do it in a local language even better which is how I remember my mnemonics:) Use the local language version of it so even if international hackers try, they'll never even be able to bruteforce me;)

Without using memory techniques most of our memories are not that good and when that person ages things that they do not use on a daily basis will be lost. To remember something which has no meaning and is complex in its structure requires frequent use of it otherwise it will be forgotten. I don't mean complex in the words that are used but complex in that it does not make sense in English.

[k@suy]

technology will continue to develop over time. so if we give our baby satoshi bitcoin now and keep it in a hardware wallet. I'm afraid that in the future bitcoin hardware wallets are outdated and irrelevant to the technology of the time. 18 years is a long time I am also afraid that at that time bitcoin was not as valuable as it is now. I better sell Satoshi Bitcoin to buy gold jewelry for my baby.

Yes you are right. Saving satoshi as a gift is not highly recommended because we are not sure if how long the does the crypto currency lasts. Whether it will be legalized in the future or it will be banned by the governments because using crypto currencies has a lot of disadvantages that they may use as a reason for crypto currency to be removed.

[red4slash]

technology will continue to develop over time. so if we give our baby satoshi bitcoin now and keep it in a hardware wallet. I'm afraid that in the future bitcoin hardware wallets are outdated and irrelevant to the technology of the time. 18 years is a long time I am also afraid that at that time bitcoin was not as valuable as it is now. I better sell Satoshi Bitcoin to buy gold jewelry for my baby.

Yes you are right. Saving satoshi as a gift is not highly recommended because we are not sure if how long the does the crypto currency lasts. Whether it will be legalized in the future or it will be banned by the governments because using crypto currencies has a lot of disadvantages that they may use as a reason for crypto currency to be removed.

if used for a period of 2-3 years may still be possible, but to give a gift that has a period of more than 10 years then you should think again. because the position of crypto does not yet have strong validation from countries that could have made strict prohibition rules

[Genemind]

Lucky are those newborn babies being gifted with Bitcoin. I'm sure that it will be a huge advantage for their future to have it. We all know that Bitcoin has a huge potential to go far in the future. 18 years would be long enough for those Bitcoin to be profitable. It's really a good idea because it will also benefit the future of those newborn babies. I just hope that they would pursue learning about it as they grow up.

[adaseb]

Why don't you just tell the kid when he grows up the 12/24 word mnemonics? Depending on how much money we are dealing here you can probably just remember the words.

You should absolutely not be trusting your memory, especially not over a period of 20 years. You can guarantee at no point in the next 20 years you will be knocked on the head, be in a car accident, have a stroke, or any of the other 100 things that can cause memory loss? I don't think so.

When you make the wallet, just pick a mnemonic where you can piece together a poem or story and just tell it to the kid its entire life.

This is equally bad advice. You should never "pick" a seed phrase. Humans are bad at being random, and anything you pick is therefore weak. Seed phrases should be generated by your wallet from your random seed number.

I somewhat agree with your first point, regarding the second point, I didn't say to manually create a 12/24 word seed from scratch. As far as I know that is not even possible. There is some checksum that it needs to pass.

I just meant create a wallet, look at the seed, see if you can make a song or book out of the words, if not, delete and create another wallet until you find one that works.

If you got words like

happy chicken egg horse jumped water child sad wet ....

You can easily make a story.

The happy chicken laid an egg while the horse jumped over water and got the child to be sad because he was wet....