How does this World work?(legally) - Life-savings(fiat)confiscated with BTC-e

[self fulfilling irony]

Question: The end of BTC-e confused my natural trust in the legal system
It took my life savings with absolutely no information how.
Is law enforcement not meant to chose the smallest damage?
Is such mission as-planned still, when the harm to the people is much bigger than the gain?
if it went wrong, is justice.gov liable for my loss?

The case of BTC-e:    
I understand part of the bitcoins on this exchange sadly might came from hacks.
Lets say 20% or X% bad bitcoins? so most bitcoins were good?

Still the deposited fiat, by users, was 100%-fine or as good as on other exchanges. (Not possibly part of the bitcoin allegations.)

Still this fiat was confiscated in full? But no information was published?  (or was the .com name confiscated only? )  
(I doubt they would just let BTC-e keep the user's fiat, maybe $billions. Paradox if they needed to  be closed.)

(Apparently though only 40% of crypto currency balances were confiscated or stolen. Because BTC-e temporarily returned as wex.nz, (however my account did not show a deposit,  nor did BTC-e compensate any Fiat balance percentages, seemingly indicating that was confiscated in full)

1.  July 24th 2017
i wired my life-savings to BTC-e. It always was a top5 Bitcoin exchange and 1-2% cheaper than others at that time.
I did never deposit crpyto.

2. BTC-e was closed down july26th  2017

3. I contacted  their wire-transfer processor Moneypolo
and the Department of Justice  https://justice.gov

3.1. justice.gov did not answer repeatedly nor in 2019.

3.2. Moneypolo said, to answer anything they need identity verification.
After verification all they said was:  Payment was forwarded immediately
to answer in 2019 Moneypolo, asked for verification again  
Told them i did that already.  They said they are not able to answer anything.
  
Thanks
Happy 2020

[squatz1]

If all of this is legitimate, I'd like to preface for saying that it is horrible that you lost this money. I do wish you luck in getting whoever seized the funds of BTC-E to return them. Though I'm personally unaware as to if the Justice Department / FBI / USA had seized Bitcoins, as it seems like that would be impossible. It would be possible for the US to freeze and seize fiat -- but with Bitcoin, we all know how that works.

Here's some info about BTC-E by the way, they had been a dirty exchange for years prior and had been processing (LAUNDERING) funds for tons of hacks with no regard for the law.

On Wednesday, in the wake of the arrest of Vinnik, WizSec published a blogpost presenting the findings of an investigation into the Mt. Gox thefts that they have apparently been preparing for years. According to WizSec, the Mt. Gox hot wallet private keys were stolen sometime in 2011, and the hacker (or multiple hackers) continued to steal bitcoin through 2012 and 2013. The bitcoin were laundered through wallets controlled by Alexander Vinnik. The indictment claims that 300,000 bitcoin were stolen from Mt. Gox went directly to three connected BTC-e accounts “directly linked” to “BTC-e administrative accounts” that only BTC-e admins and operators could have had access to. At least one of the accounts — under the name “Vamnedam” — was controlled by Vinnik and “others known and unknown.” (The “others known” are either not named in the indictment or have been redacted from the published document.)

More bitcoin from the theft were sent to other Mt. Gox wallets and wallets at a third exchange — the now-defunct Tradehill, which operated out of San Francisco, California. From there, they eventually ended up at BTC-e, in an account that was directly controlled by Vinnik.

WizSec also claims that the wallets that laundered Mt. Gox coins also handled “coins stolen from Bitcoinica, Bitfloor and several other thefts from back in 2011 and 2012.”

It’s not clear whether Vinnik was directly involved in the Mt. Gox theft, or how close he is to any of those previous thefts, or even the CryptoWall ransomware hackers whose funds he is accused of laundering. But when it comes to Mt. Gox, at least, BTC-e’s proximity to the theft is fairly suspicious.

BTC-E wasn't registered properly with the USA, and I'm assuming that had been them on the radar long before these other things came up.

95 percent of all ransomware cashouts happened on BTC-E (From the Verge article from before)

This exchange was very dirty and very sketchy, this wasn't hard to notice. I do wish you luck though, as it is horrible to lose all of this money and not have anyone telling you anything.

[darkangel11]

You were the most unlucky if you really had the misfortune of depositing money to the exchanges just 2 days before it got shut down.

Did you ask the department of justice privately or through a lawyer? These agencies tend to ignore private inquiries but usually answer lawyers.
Your best chance is to get a lawyer and make them get a formal response from the processor that they don't have your money and it was transferred to BTC-e on that exact date. Then demand the government or the FBI to answer who took control of the deposited funds. It did not disappear, there's a trail of crumbs you have to follow.

[self fulfilling irony]

thank you
@squatz1   ("95% of ransom ware" is statistically rather impossibe. More so because most exchanges didn't offer KYC. Bitcoin was not yet defined as real money in most countries.) - Bad enough whatever percentage!
A market has two halves (bitcoin vs. fiat).  Assume most of BTC-e's Bitcoins were from a bad source, that still results in a majority of good funds and users, that need to be protected.  (And next to Fiat, the sources of Altcoins were likely fine at that time, from miners.)

I'm into math and improving the world.   Did BTC-e "hire trolls" on BitcoinTalk and more?  My info is dated but Bitstamp & BTC-e just were the "original" (oldest) bitcoin exchanges, the techie's choice?  (BTC-e had the most serious features/API, with no shiny layout/copywriting.)   Coinmarketcap(.com) looked like this for long: 1. Bitfinex 2. OkCoin  3. Bitstamp 4. BTC-E )   I was/am more suspicious about the big ones, Bitfinex, OkCoin, Bitmex from Hong Kong, they still dont offer KYC?. Bitmex volume is $Billions/day .  Why arent they closed down?

@darkangel11
(MoneyPolo  said (in August 2017), it was immediately received by BTC-e. So i didn't fill their "Payment Claim" form again now.)

I understand lawyers can help to move ignorant or greedy companies, but
Why do goverment organs ignore people? isn't their purpose to help?  
(Contact form seems streamlined, limited to 2000 characters)
Why do i have to search for crumbs as a victim. You mean as if i they were a thief and i was a detective?

In my proper world, i was expecting an email from confiscators directly or through a letter form my bank, every day.
(Thinking they finish what they start.)  Not sure how many accounts are as easy/obvious as mine. But in their place,
if you ever worked with spreadsheets, wouldn't you imagine getting there soon?
 

thanks

[Sadlife]

That's why custodial exchanges is very risky when you want to trade your money with it, because they have the ability to hold or deny you access of your crypto's even if the violation is one sided and unfair even if you've done absolutely nothing wrong.
This is the reason why it is really highly recommended to not put all your money in one place.

[self fulfilling irony]

Did anyone contact DoJ ?  

Is there any lawyer (attorney), willing to employee his email header for this / at a flat fee?


@Sadlife, thanks, hope you are happy.

[squatz1]

thank you
@squatz1   ("95% of all bad" is statistically rather impossibe. More so because most exchanges didn't offer KYC. Bitcoin was not yet defined as real money in most countries.) - Bad enough whatever percentage!
A market has two halves (bitcoin vs. fiat).  Assume most of BTC-e's Bitcoins were from a bad source, that still results in a majority of good funds and users, that need to be protected.  (And next to Fiat, the sources of Altcoins were likely fine at that time, from miners.)

I'm into math and improving the world.   Did BTC-e "hire trolls" on BitcoinTalk and more?  My info is dated but Bitstamp & BTC-e just were the "original" (oldest) bitcoin exchanges, the techie's choice?  (BTC-e had the most serious features/API, with no shiny layout/copywriting.)   Coinmarketcap(.com) looked like this for long: 1. Bitfinex 2. OkCoin  3. Bitstamp 4. BTC-E )   I was/am more suspicious about the big ones, Bitfinex, OkCoin, Bitmex from Hong Kong, they still dont offer KYC?. Bitmex volume is $Billions/day .  Why arent they closed down?

At the time, a good deal of exchanges didn't have KYC for regular trading -- but didn't allow for FIAT withdrawls without KYC info because their banks would force that sort of stuff. I'm assuming that BTC-E had been laundering fiat as well for clients, which is the reason that they had been shutdown by the US gov.

Yes, I do understand your point about there being good people using the exchange as well - that's the sad part about this whole thing -- I do still wish you luck.

Anyone on here know a good deal about BTC-E and can comment? I'm kinda just spitballing from news articles.

[darkangel11]

@darkangel11
(MoneyPolo  said (in August 2017), it was immediately received by BTC-e. So i didn't fill their "Payment Claim" form again now.)

I understand lawyers can help to move ignorant or greedy companies, but
Why do goverment organs ignore people? isn't their purpose to help?  
(Contact form seems streamlined, limited to 2000 characters)
Why do i have to search for crumbs as a victim. You mean as if i they were a thief and i was a detective?

In my proper world, i was expecting an email from confiscators directly or through a letter form my bank, every day.
(Thinking they finish what they start.)  Not sure how many accounts are as easy/obvious as mine. But in their place,
if you ever worked with spreadsheets, wouldn't you imagine getting there soon?

Usually if you're facing a responses like " we don't have it", or government agencies responding that they have no information or they were not responsible for the operation, you have to do your own investigation. Otherwise they're going to keep redirecting you and each of these agencies will have 30 days to respond and you'll be waiting for months just to cross them out from your list.
You need to establish who has your money. They probably don't care about the victims and expect them to come and ask for their money but to do do it you have to first know who exactly was responsible for the assets belonging to BTC-e. I'm talking about the department and agent in charge of the case.

[squatz1]

@darkangel11
(MoneyPolo  said (in August 2017), it was immediately received by BTC-e. So i didn't fill their "Payment Claim" form again now.)

I understand lawyers can help to move ignorant or greedy companies, but
Why do goverment organs ignore people? isn't their purpose to help?  
(Contact form seems streamlined, limited to 2000 characters)
Why do i have to search for crumbs as a victim. You mean as if i they were a thief and i was a detective?

In my proper world, i was expecting an email from confiscators directly or through a letter form my bank, every day.
(Thinking they finish what they start.)  Not sure how many accounts are as easy/obvious as mine. But in their place,
if you ever worked with spreadsheets, wouldn't you imagine getting there soon?

Usually if you're facing a responses like " we don't have it", or government agencies responding that they have no information or they were not responsible for the operation, you have to do your own investigation. Otherwise they're going to keep redirecting you and each of these agencies will have 30 days to respond and you'll be waiting for months just to cross them out from your list.
You need to establish who has your money. They probably don't care about the victims and expect them to come and ask for their money but to do do it you have to first know who exactly was responsible for the assets belonging to BTC-e. I'm talking about the department and agent in charge of the case.

I think that they might be being honest about the whole situation. I don't think that the government was able to seize Bitcoin from BTC-E -- besides MAYBE what was in a hot wallet with little to no security -- because it'd be impossible to seize.

I mean without a doubt continue to follow up. I'd recommend getting in touch with legal counsel to make your claims a bit more legitimate. The US government may ignore you, but with a legal letterhead and some legal claims -- they know they're going to have to work with ya.

Yet again -- Good Luck.

[self fulfilling irony]

@darkangel11
(MoneyPolo  said (in August 2017), it was immediately received by BTC-e. So i didn't fill their "Payment Claim" form again now.)

I understand lawyers can help to move ignorant or greedy companies, but
Why do goverment organs ignore people? isn't their purpose to help?  
(Contact form seems streamlined, limited to 2000 characters)
Why do i have to search for crumbs as a victim. You mean as if i they were a thief and i was a detective?

In my proper world, i was expecting an email from confiscators directly or through a letter form my bank, every day.
(Thinking they finish what they start.)  Not sure how many accounts are as easy/obvious as mine. But in their place,
if you ever worked with spreadsheets, wouldn't you imagine getting there soon?

Usually if you're facing a responses like " we don't have it", or government agencies responding that they have no information or they were not responsible for the operation, you have to do your own investigation. Otherwise they're going to keep redirecting you and each of these agencies will have 30 days to respond and you'll be waiting for months just to cross them out from your list.
You need to establish who has your money. They probably don't care about the victims and expect them to come and ask for their money but to do do it you have to first know who exactly was responsible for the assets belonging to BTC-e. I'm talking about the department and agent in charge of the case.

thank you! 
i still can't believe this. 
aren't all significantly large pots of money handled by governments published transparently?

[darkangel11]

You're asking a difficult question. Yes they should inform you but what if the client database was encrypted? What if they did not yet process all of it?

In the US they usually steal seized dirty money by filing for forfeiture. This is basically stealing because you cannot contest it. The way it works they seize your money and if they want it they say it's dirty (crime money) and file an asset forfeiture document in court. That gets approved in 30 days which mean the money is being taken from you before the case and is independent of the case. Even if you win the case you won't get it back.

I don't know if that is what they did with BTC-E money but it's possible. This would explain why they did not inform you about it because they only informed the owner of the exchange. In such case he now has a debt and you won't get the money back from the government agency but have to sue the oexchange. Get a lawyer and make him get all the case documents to clear all doubt.

[self fulfilling irony]

thank you,

In the US they usually steal seized dirty money by filing for forfeiture. This is basically stealing because you cannot contest it.

i assume there is a public list of all large forfeitures?

and such wont usually include funds from client/trustee accounts? Or, if not distinguished require preponderance of the evidence?  It has to be assumed that most/all fiat belongs to clients    (if the cause is, that BTC-e was trying to get rid of hoarded/distributed stolen bitcoins next to the proper exchange business.)

Get a lawyer and make him get all the case documents to clear all doubt.

yes.

Did anyone contact DoJ ?  

Is there any lawyer (attorney), willing to employee his email header for this / at a flat fee?

[squatz1]

You're asking a difficult question. Yes they should inform you but what if the client database was encrypted? What if they did not yet process all of it?

In the US they usually steal seized dirty money by filing for forfeiture. This is basically stealing because you cannot contest it. The way it works they seize your money and if they want it they say it's dirty (crime money) and file an asset forfeiture document in court. That gets approved in 30 days which mean the money is being taken from you before the case and is independent of the case. Even if you win the case you won't get it back.

I don't know if that is what they did with BTC-E money but it's possible. This would explain why they did not inform you about it because they only informed the owner of the exchange. In such case he now has a debt and you won't get the money back from the government agency but have to sue the oexchange. Get a lawyer and make him get all the case documents to clear all doubt.

Even in the case of civil asset forfeiture, you're going to be informed by the police (or any law enforcement agency that does so) that this is occuring. They're not going to ignore all of your communications with them, that's not something that they'd be able to do by law.

I expect that if these claims are true, you're going to get some sort of response from the US in due time.

Though I don't think that they were able to seize the Bitcoin that BTC-E was holding -- because we all know that the only way this would be possible is if their coins were sitting on another exchange that would listen to US subpoenas (Gemini, Coinbase, etc) if they had been holding their coins in cold storage, or any other method where they were the only people with the coins then BTC-E owners and shareholders would just be holding onto them.

[darkangel11]

i assume there is a public list of all large forfeitures?

Yes, but you need to know the details of the case.

https://www.forfeiture.gov/

Though I don't think that they were able to seize the Bitcoin that BTC-E was holding -- because we all know that the only way this would be possible is if their coins were sitting on another exchange that would listen to US subpoenas (Gemini, Coinbase, etc) if they had been holding their coins in cold storage, or any other method where they were the only people with the coins then BTC-E owners and shareholders would just be holding onto them.

Officially they were able to obtain more than a third of the coins.

On 28 July 2017, US authorities seized the BTC-e.com domain name and 38% of all customer funds. To repay its customers BTC-e created WEX tokens, which were used to represent customers' seized equity. The WEX tokens represented $1 and were issued to account for the value of customers cryptocurrencies at the time of the theft.

[squatz1]

i assume there is a public list of all large forfeitures?

Yes, but you need to know the details of the case.

https://www.forfeiture.gov/

Though I don't think that they were able to seize the Bitcoin that BTC-E was holding -- because we all know that the only way this would be possible is if their coins were sitting on another exchange that would listen to US subpoenas (Gemini, Coinbase, etc) if they had been holding their coins in cold storage, or any other method where they were the only people with the coins then BTC-E owners and shareholders would just be holding onto them.

Officially they were able to obtain more than a third of the coins.

On 28 July 2017, US authorities seized the BTC-e.com domain name and 38% of all customer funds. To repay its customers BTC-e created WEX tokens, which were used to represent customers' seized equity. The WEX tokens represented $1 and were issued to account for the value of customers cryptocurrencies at the time of the theft.

Ah. So really a 38 percent haircut should be what all customers experienced right off the bat. Which was cleared up by the WEX tokens being issued, though I highly doubt those coins were able to keep their peg at $1.

So the customers probably ended up taking a 5-15 percent haircut after all things were said and done. Given that they were able to get the rest of their funds off of BTC-E mirror websites/domains.

[Artemis3]

Question: The end of BTC-e confused my natural trust in the legal system
It took my life savings with absolutely no information how.
Is law enforcement not meant to chose the smallest damage?
Is such mission as-planned still, when the harm to the people is much bigger than the gain?
if it went wrong, is justice.gov liable for my loss?

You are trusting your justice system now, good luck with that.

Life savings don't go into exchanges or online wallets. They go into cold wallets.

This time you are blaming authorities, but exchanges have failed and disappeared on their own in the past.

This is why you must never leave "savings" inside a wallet that is not yours, such as one belonging to an exchange. There have also been hacks, theft, etc. This is NOT new.

You should by default trust no one, not your gov, not a random exchange. A wallet in your possession is in your control, nobody can take it from you, especially if you hide it well. But this is giving your money to others.

I still see some people waiting for "any" compensation after losing all their money in Mt.Gox 6 years ago, they too trusted an exchange, and they too were wrong to do so, and that was in Japan with a "proper" justice system...

There is no way to sugar coat this, never put money in an exchange that you cannot afford to lose. Did you wanted to make some money trading? Then don't put ALL your eggs into a SINGLE basket. This is also basic investment advise: Diversify, even if it looks like the best investment ever, don't commit all to it, never.

It might be too late for you, but if anybody else is reading this, and has committed the same MISTAKE, correct it while you can.

Never forget, Mt.Gox used to be the most reputable exchange of its time, its position was equivalent to Binance today. Trust no one.

[self fulfilling irony]

Never forget, Mt.Gox used to be the most reputable exchange of its time ... Binance today.   

thanks, why do you advertise gambling?