Mainstream businesses/stores which accept Lightning Network payments?

[squatz1]

Bitrefill of course. There's a gaming store called Joltfun that uses it which I've bought from a couple of times. There's that Moon Chrome plugin that buys through a few place with it but I've no idea how trustworthy it is. They were doing Amazon but now seem to have lost it temporarily.

Since the average person doesn't understand or use it, including me, it's going to take a long, long time before it gets anywhere.

It's possible third party stuff like the Bakkt and Starbucks thing or some sort of Coinbase account linked payment will take precedence.

Might be grave digging a bit here (by a month and a little bit or so) But I'd have to say that JoltFun, BitRefill, some random gambling websites (LightingSpin, etc) are going to be the best that you're going to find in the LN.

We have to first focus, as a community, on getting people into bitcoin usage first not into LN. It's not there yet, and we'd be doing them a disservice to push them into something that isn't ready and isn't really fully possible to use without bugs.

I'd love to see Bitcoin used at my local stores, that'd be great. But lets first get them onto something that works, not something that doesn't.

[1715493393]

1715493393

[gentlemand]

I just noticed that https://giftoff.com/  a UK based gift card site, are now offering lightning payments through opennode.

I've bought plenty of stuff through them over the years with no problems at all. No sort of premium either. If I were a lightning user this would be my main port of call.

[squatz1]

I just noticed that https://giftoff.com/  a UK based gift card site, are now offering lightning payments through opennode.

I've bought plenty of stuff through them over the years with no problems at all. No sort of premium either. If I were a lightning user this would be my main port of call.

Ouch. UK based gift card website, I was praying that maybe they still supported some US gift cards. I was beyond excited when I found the little area to type in my country:

They only have 3 giftcards for the US, I guess my search continues to try to find one of these LN companies without any sort of mark up.

[Abiky]

Might be grave digging a bit here (by a month and a little bit or so) But I'd have to say that JoltFun, BitRefill, some random gambling websites (LightingSpin, etc) are going to be the best that you're going to find in the LN.

We have to first focus, as a community, on getting people into bitcoin usage first not into LN. It's not there yet, and we'd be doing them a disservice to push them into something that isn't ready and isn't really fully possible to use without bugs.

I'd love to see Bitcoin used at my local stores, that'd be great. But lets first get them onto something that works, not something that doesn't.

That's certainly true, mate. We should encourage people to use Bitcoin first, in order to drive adoption for the Lightning Network. While I'm quite fond with the LN's instant transaction speeds, and extremely low fees, it's not meant to be used as a replacement for mainstream BTC transactions. Even if people decide to use the LN instead of Bitcoin itself, they still need to own some on-chain BTC in order to open/close a channel.

Instant transactions prove to be extremely convenient for mobile payments on the go. With a variety of LN wallets for mobile devices, people are able to pay for goods & services in a seamless way. I'd have to say that the number of businesses/stores accepting LN payments are still limited these days. But at least, it's better something than nothing.

My most favorite LN services are Bitrefill, and JoltFun. I can buy gift cards online instantly with the LN using Bitrefill, while I can buy games online instantly with JoltFun. Sometimes I'd wish we had a sort of marketplace like eBay or Amazon that would accept LN payments for convenience. Maybe as LN adoption grows over time, we'll be able to experience this?

Nonetheless, I have to agree that the LN is still NOT ready yet for mainstream use. I know many people are excited about how the LN settles transactions instantly at a fraction of the cost, but there are still many issues that need to be addressed in order to make the LN a robust Layer-Two solution for micropayments. It's no doubt that developers are still working hard on improving the Lightning Network. Soon, we'll be able to enjoy atomic swaps, submarine swaps, and even Watchtowers within the Lightning Network. With all that's coming, I believe that Bitcoin will become much more attractive to merchants/businesses than any other cryptocurrency known to date. Just my thoughts

[gentlemand]

With all that's coming, I believe that Bitcoin will become much more attractive to merchants/businesses than any other cryptocurrency known to date. Just my thoughts

But it's just the same as Bitcoin itself. It's great for merchants and always has been. There's still zero incentive for the customer unless they're already into crytpo. Maybe LNs will come up with some truly unique uses but as it stands it's a curio inside a curio to the average personage.

[squatz1]

With all that's coming, I believe that Bitcoin will become much more attractive to merchants/businesses than any other cryptocurrency known to date. Just my thoughts

But it's just the same as Bitcoin itself. It's great for merchants and always has been. There's still zero incentive for the customer unless they're already into crytpo. Maybe LNs will come up with some truly unique uses but as it stands it's a curio inside a curio to the average personage.

Beyond true, there's literally no incentive for merchants to hop onto the crypto wave. They're not going to get any more customers as the customers they currently have are going to use them if they use crypto or if they dont.

Why accept crypto then? To save on fees? Maybe -- though most companies are going to want to use something like BitPay which is still going to charge them somewhere in the realm of 1 percent.

[malevolent]

Why accept crypto then? To save on fees? Maybe -- though most companies are going to want to use something like BitPay which is still going to charge them somewhere in the realm of 1 percent.

To capitalize on Bitcoin users and hodlers willing to part with a small fraction of their wealth just because it has increased so much in value, without having to go through an extra step of selling coins at an exchange.

[gentlemand]

Beyond true, there's literally no incentive for merchants to hop onto the crypto wave.

There's loads of incentive for them, you get your money in an hour rather than weeks or months, but there's no practical way they can translate that into an incentive for customers.

To capitalize on Bitcoin users and hodlers willing to part with a small fraction of their wealth just because it has increased so much in value, without having to go through an extra step of selling coins at an exchange.

I think this is a valid enough reason but we've seen time and again that merchants can't be bothered to keep the possibility open. There is never enough uptake. What's needed is a fire and forget option that doesn't matter whether it draws much custom to start with. I don't know how onerous it is to accept it but it must be a relative hassle for it to keep happening.

[squatter]

Beyond true, there's literally no incentive for merchants to hop onto the crypto wave.

There's loads of incentive for them, you get your money in an hour rather than weeks or months, but there's no practical way they can translate that into an incentive for customers.

The most attractive uses cases are businesses that are high-margin -- and therefore can provide customer incentives -- but who are also viewed as risky by payment processors and banks:

In Jack Mallers' post, he gave the example of merchants in the cannabis industry:

Those processing payments in the cannabis industry charge between 5%-15%, and are known to be unreliable and unstable.

That implies that merchants already have the margins to give customers 5%-15% discounts if their processing costs could be brought close to 0%. It's a big enough discount to get people to start using the app, since it leverages a payment rail they were planning on using anyway -- their debit card:

My parents were already running a BTCPay Server instance and offered a 10% discount for anyone who paid in BTC, as it was so much easier for us to accept. The problem was, no customer was able to get a Lightning wallet set up to make payments ranging from $0.10–$500. With Strike, this changes immediately. All you need is the app and a debit card.

We passed Strike around to a few frequent customers and family friends, telling them if you use this app, you get a 10% discount. It worked. Customers young and old were using Strike to shop at our store, getting a discount, and helping our business.

This thinking naturally extends to other "risky" sectors like pornography, which are prone to high chargeback rates or outright banning by payment processors.

However, when you get down to low-margin, low-risk businesses like grocery stores and coffee shops, the incentives no longer align.

[Abiky]

But it's just the same as Bitcoin itself. It's great for merchants and always has been. There's still zero incentive for the customer unless they're already into crytpo. Maybe LNs will come up with some truly unique uses but as it stands it's a curio inside a curio to the average personage.

There might be no incentive to use Bitcoin or the Lightning Network on top of traditional payment processors. But I have to admit that fees on BTC (or the LN) are much lower than those charged by credit cards. We'll have to see what use cases the Lightning Network will bring to the mainstream world once its development is complete. The atomic swaps feature could turn out to be real useful for merchants & businesses to convert any cryptocurrency into Bitcoin or vice versa. They could quickly cash out to a stablecoin of their choice too. With instant transactions and ridiculously low fees, the Lightning Network could boost Bitcoin's adoption as we know it.

But we need to promote the benefits of Bitcoin's second-layer solution to the public. Otherwise, mainstream businesses/stores won't accept LN payments anytime soon. It's still too early to talk about this since the LN is still in its infancy. But rest assured that if it becomes successful in the long run, major retailers (like Walmart, Amazon, eBay, etc.) will begin accepting LN payments for the benefit of everyone.

Why accept crypto then? To save on fees? Maybe -- though most companies are going to want to use something like BitPay which is still going to charge them somewhere in the realm of 1 percent.

I believe that merchants/businesses would save on fees by using crypto instead of traditional payments processors. It would be more cost-efficient for them to accept Bitcoin or "BTCLN" directly without going through a middleman like BitPay. The only downside is that the merchant/business would need to have a certain level of technical knowledge to send and receive crypto payments. Still, the advantages outweighs the disadvantages. If the need arises for mainstream businesses/stores to start accepting LN payments, you could expect BTC to gain traction like never before.

I'd like to see someday Walmart or even Amazon accepting LN payments directly. It would prove out to be extremely convenient for everyday people as transactions would be settled instantly at a fraction of the cost without middleman. But this could take a couple of years from now before it becomes a reality.