Nazis were socialists - Change my mind

[styca]

I lost count of how many times you contradicted yourself about halfway through, I am not going to even dignify this with a response.

That's fine, I'll count for you: zero.

I didn't say zero "socialism" is ideal

Pure capitalism could exist under its own structure, but it would not necessarily be ideal.

Yes, I can agree with that.

communism require initial input from capitalism.

I still disagree. Are you arguing that the concepts of money or of private ownership of the means of production pre-date primitive hunter-gatherer societies?

Perhaps our disagreement is just semantics?  

[1715326896]

1715326896

[1715326896]

1715326896

[1715326896]

1715326896

[1715326896]

1715326896

[TECSHARE]

I lost count of how many times you contradicted yourself about halfway through, I am not going to even dignify this with a response.

That's fine, I'll count for you: zero.

I didn't say zero "socialism" is ideal

Pure capitalism could exist under its own structure, but it would not necessarily be ideal.

Yes, I can agree with that.

communism require initial input from capitalism.

I still disagree. Are you arguing that the concepts of money or of private ownership of the means of production pre-date primitive hunter-gatherer societies?

Perhaps our disagreement is just semantics?  

I find socialists and communists rest solely upon semantics and shifting definitions, which is why I am not even going to bother engaging you. I don't have any interest in watching you do semantic back flips and inverting the meanings of words over and over again to try to make a square peg fit in a communist hole.

[iluvbitcoins]

Communism is a stateless system.

In theory. In practice since it needs coercion to be established, those with the monopoly on power are going to keep the power.

All the so-called "communist" states are socialist republics.

Even more reason to say socialism is bad.

Any attempt to implement 100% capitalist regime would lead you to either fascism or the public unrest which will result with violent overthrow of such government.

What does statist facism have to do with free-market capitalism? o.o
I think the founding US did fine without facism as much as Hong Kong does today

[criptix]

Any attempt to implement 100% capitalist regime would lead you to either fascism or the public unrest which will result with violent overthrow of such government.

What does statist facism have to do with free-market capitalism? o.o
I think the founding US did fine without facism as much as Hong Kong does today

Because they were never and are not full capitalist economies.

Just look at the inequality from today with all the socialist policies we have (social security, welfare etc).

In a full capitalist system the gap between poor and wealthy would likely ballon by several magnitudes and likely succumb to some feudalistic system where the top is gonna decide everything while majority of citiziens are poor and slavelike.

(On a global scale this is actually what happens - industry nations decide what happens and earn the most money while 3rd world nations are used as garbage dumps and doing low value work that make them barely survive).

I just dont see human nature changing in the short term so that we can have utopia with a full capitalist economy.

[TECSHARE]

Any attempt to implement 100% capitalist regime would lead you to either fascism or the public unrest which will result with violent overthrow of such government.

What does statist facism have to do with free-market capitalism? o.o
I think the founding US did fine without facism as much as Hong Kong does today

Because they were never and are not full capitalist economies.

Just look at the inequality from today with all the socialist policies we have (social security, welfare etc).

In a full capitalist system the gap between poor and wealthy would likely ballon by several magnitudes and likely succumb to some feudalistic system where the top is gonna decide everything while majority of citiziens are poor and slavelike.

(On a global scale this is actually what happens - industry nations decide what happens and earn the most money while 3rd world nations are used as garbage dumps and doing low value work that make them barely survive).

I just dont see human nature changing in the short term so that we can have utopia with a full capitalist economy.

You operate under the assumption that these social programs do not contribute to inequality and assign all blame to capitalism. I don't find it a coincidence that there is a correlation with all of these social programs in the USA being expanded and economic instability and hardship growing.

[criptix]

Any attempt to implement 100% capitalist regime would lead you to either fascism or the public unrest which will result with violent overthrow of such government.

What does statist facism have to do with free-market capitalism? o.o
I think the founding US did fine without facism as much as Hong Kong does today

Because they were never and are not full capitalist economies.

Just look at the inequality from today with all the socialist policies we have (social security, welfare etc).

In a full capitalist system the gap between poor and wealthy would likely ballon by several magnitudes and likely succumb to some feudalistic system where the top is gonna decide everything while majority of citiziens are poor and slavelike.

(On a global scale this is actually what happens - industry nations decide what happens and earn the most money while 3rd world nations are used as garbage dumps and doing low value work that make them barely survive).

I just dont see human nature changing in the short term so that we can have utopia with a full capitalist economy.

You operate under the assumption that these social programs do not contribute to inequality and assign all blame to capitalism. I don't find it a coincidence that there is a correlation with all of these social programs in the USA being expanded and economic instability and hardship growing.

I guess you could make arguments for both pro and contra socialistic policies.

For example nordic nations (with the exception of their immigration policies) are probaly one of the best nations to live in on the global scale and they are imho extremely socialistic, while still part of the richest industry nations.

On the other extreme Venezuela nuff said.

[iluvbitcoins]

I guess you could make arguments for both pro and contra socialistic policies.

For example nordic nations (with the exception of their immigration policies) are probaly one of the best nations to live in on the global scale and they are imho extremely socialistic, while still part of the richest industry nations.

On the other extreme Venezuela nuff said.

They have one of the freest (most capitalistic) markets in the world according to the economic freedom index.

In a full capitalist system the gap between poor and wealthy would likely ballon by several magnitudes and likely succumb to some feudalistic system where the top is gonna decide everything while majority of citiziens are poor and slavelike.

Social policies only increase inequality because they teach people not to work and therefore they stay poor instead of finding a job and picking up their lives.

[Sahyadri]

Party principles of the German Workers Party from 1913.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5208627.msg53314721#msg53314721

Party principles of the National Socialist Workers Party from 1918. (DAP changed their name to NSDAP)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5208627.msg53319034#msg53319034

Party principles from the first National Socialist party in the Reich (from 1918.)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5208627.msg53323636#msg53323636

Strasser program
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5208627.msg53326816#msg53326816

Some random quotes
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5208627.msg53323521#msg53323521

Note:
Edited some of these posts moving my replies downwards so it would be easier to read through the OP.

Really cant comment about the ideologies of Nazis but one thing for sure I can mention here is the speech by Hitler during his rein .For example, in a 1927 speech he said , “We are socialists. We are the enemies of today’s capitalist system of exploitation … and we are determined to destroy this system under all conditions.” Now decide for yourself.

[Negotiation]

Typical bunch of "argumentation"... maybe the OP does need to follow his own alleged advice & google definitions of both first...  

I do not think it has to follow any Google definition because it implies that the Nazis were not socialists they did these things to remove prejudice from society The Nazis used to say against those who were anti-social.

[iluvbitcoins]

Typical bunch of "argumentation"... maybe the OP does need to follow his own alleged advice & google definitions of both first...  

I do not think it has to follow any Google definition because it implies that the Nazis were not socialists they did these things to remove prejudice from society The Nazis used to say against those who were anti-social.

Literally nothing you just said makes any sense whatsoever.

[BADecker]

Socialites are to socialists as Israelites are to Israelists.     

[TECSHARE]

Typical bunch of "argumentation"... maybe the OP does need to follow his own alleged advice & google definitions of both first...  

I do not think it has to follow any Google definition because it implies that the Nazis were not socialists they did these things to remove prejudice from society The Nazis used to say against those who were anti-social.

Literally nothing you just said makes any sense whatsoever.

The sig spam bots seem to be in force in this thread.

[JAX Community]

Were the Nazis socialists? No, not in any meaningful way, and certainly not after 1934. Hitler allied himself with leaders of German conservative and nationalist movements, and in January 1933 German President Paul von Hindenburg appointed him chancellor. Hitler’s Third Reich had been born, and it was entirely fascist in character

[iluvbitcoins]

Were the Nazis socialists? No, not in any meaningful way, and certainly not after 1934. Hitler allied himself with leaders of German conservative and nationalist movements, and in January 1933 German President Paul von Hindenburg appointed him chancellor. Hitler’s Third Reich had been born, and it was entirely fascist in character

Facism is an extremely statist ideology as well.
Giving the goverment or supreme leader more authority over the individual and his free will is the complete opposite of capitalism.
Facism and socialism are very close ideologies.
The major difference is that the enemy in socialism is found in class instead of race.

[TECSHARE]

Were the Nazis socialists? No, not in any meaningful way, and certainly not after 1934. Hitler allied himself with leaders of German conservative and nationalist movements, and in January 1933 German President Paul von Hindenburg appointed him chancellor. Hitler’s Third Reich had been born, and it was entirely fascist in character

Facism is an extremely statist ideology as well.
Giving the goverment or supreme leader more authority over the individual and his free will is the complete opposite of capitalism.
Facism and socialism are very close ideologies.
The major difference is that the enemy in socialism is found in class instead of race.

I don't agree that racism is a critical component of fascism. If you remove both the race and class elements from both, what you are left with is totalitarianism. That is the important part that ENABLES the racism and classism.

[yslyv]

As far as i know socialism is kinda financial system. Being a socialists does not make anybody a good person. Their financial ideology can support distrubition of the financial items in loyal way. But it does not mean that they are not racist or murderers.