Why is PETER SCHIFF wrong about Bitcoin ??? Could you win a Bitcoin Debate ???

[HardFacts]

PETER SCHIFF talks a lot about bitcoin, and even invites people from here to his live-streams to debate him on the facts about Bitcoin.   Is Peter Schiff wrong in his bullet points about the properties and reality of Bitcoin ?   If so, let us know why he is wrong !!!   In a nutshell, here are a few of the things Peter Schiff is saying about Bitcoin:

1.   The Blockchain is the future of money, YES !!!   But Bitcoin is NOT, NOT, NOT the blockchain, an infinite number of crypto currencies can be created to use the blockchain.   Back in 1990, the internet was the future, but that does not mean the first internet browser ( Netscape 1.0 ) was the best and most valuable browser on the planet...   Competition came along and NETSCAPE went to zero, forgotten in the trash heap of history...  Just because Bitcoin is the first cryptocurrency means NOTHING.  Gold backed, and other, better crypto currencies with better use and real backing will make bitcoin obsolete.  Is the world first FIAT currency the best and most valuable FIAT because it was first  ?

2.   The worlds most important Central Banks and Governments are purchasing as much GOLD as they can.  NONE of them are investing in Bitcoin.  

3.   The future of cryptocurrency is most likely to be one backed by gold, or some other real asset.  A crypto backed by NOTHING is not any better than a fiat currency backed by nothing.

4.   It makes no difference how much effort and energy is required to create a bitcoin.  There are a lot of bad investments throughout history where a lot of labor and energy have resulted in bankruptcy and the creation of NOTHING.   The world does not value labor, or wasted computation power, it values CREATION OF REAL WEALTH, things that we can use and that make our lives better.   How much time and energy was used to create Enron ?  How much time and energy was used to create WeWork ? You think those companies prices are going to the moon just because of the amount of energy used to create them ?  Quick, buy your WeWork stock !!!

5.   There are a limited supply of an INFINITE number of crypto currencies.  If I create a crypto currency today, and make it so that only 24,000,000  " HARD FACTS COINS " can ever exit, does this give them a huge value ?   A limited supply of nothing is still nothing.

6.   LibraCoin will be MAJOR competition for Bitcoin.  Libra Coin will fulfill the promise of quick, easy, cheap transactions that bitcoin FAILED AT.   Remember the early promise of bitcoin being used like money for more efficient transactions, it FAILED.  Transacting in bitcoin is very expensive, and it never lived up to its original potential, so they just kept changing the narrative.  LibraCoin is just the first of many challengers that will appear in the coming years.

7.   Bitcoin is NOT a store of value, it a speculative investment.  No one is buying bitcoin to act as a savings account, the price of bitcoin can swing thousands of dollars in minutes.   GET REAL, everyone is buying bitcoin in the hopes it will go to 1,000,000 USD.   There is no such thing as a free lunch, the greater the reward, the greater the risk.  If Bitcoin can Skyrocket, it can go to zero just as quickly.

Any intelligent, and rational person could talk about the realities of their investment, anyone that can not is just investing based on greed and emotion.   So what would you say to the above arguments that Peter Schiff so frequently points out ?



 

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[BitDane]

In a debate of perspective, I guess there is no winner.  They are both right and both wrong though no one can ever tell someone that they are wrong when it comes to personal perspective.  It is Peter Schiff belief and naturally, he will shutdown any reasoning that will oppose his belief.  So I guess no one can win between the two debators, only those who are favored by audience.

[joniboini]

6.   LibraCoin will be MAJOR competition for Bitcoin.  

Is this the same Libra that Facebook is trying to launch?

Well, maybe we can talk when this thing finally launched and not just a paper.
3. Let me just point out that fiat and crypto are two different beings. Bitcoin (even if it is 'backed by nothing') is not centralized like fiat, so of course, it is better than them. Nobody can issue an order and make all coins obsolete in one day or produce it without everybody knowing.
4. The point of mining is not just supply creation but verification etc. I think those who buy or mine bitcoin in the early days already enjoy 'real wealth'.
5. Yea because nobody will use it. Bitcoin is not 'if i create a coin today' thing.
2. Doesn't mean crypto is not valuable.
I'm so lazy when it comes to debate because regardless of who points out what, most of the time it will turn into a pointless mockery in the end.

[pooya87]

why would anybody want to waste time debating with someone who not only doesn't understand bitcoin but also is closing his eyes and ears and just repeats no like a mule? the same arguments have been used for over a decade against bitcoin while it continues to grow and make the same people angrier and more scared.
debates are only worth it if they are between two rational people.

[joelsamuya]

While I understand that stimulating debates on anything at hand and for myriad of issues that can be affecting us, I actually don't like listening to many negative insinuations for something. At a certain point, I find debates to be boring because humans really have different convictions and persuasions. Nobody can be right nobody can be wrong as we really don't know what can be in the future. In other words, those who don't like Bitcoin can continue to do so and those who are convinced that Bitcoin has good value and future can do the same.

[alyssa85]

why would anybody want to waste time debating with someone who not only doesn't understand bitcoin but also is closing his eyes and ears and just repeats no like a mule? the same arguments have been used for over a decade against bitcoin while it continues to grow and make the same people angrier and more scared.
debates are only worth it if they are between two rational people.

This.

Peter Schiff's audience will soon realise he is wrong about bitcoin when his predictions fail to come to pass. In the meanwhile, just ignore him and get on with whatever you are doing in the crypto world.

Bitcoin has had many detractors over the last decade, but it's success hasn't depended on persuading those types of people.

[larus]

Peter is one of the main FUDer against btc. Its almost impossible to win debate with him

[Asmonist]

Debate is an exchange of opinions. There are no wrong opinions as they say. Everyone has his or her own opinion so probably there is no winner on it. It depends on where you want to believe in after series of exchange of their opinions. It helps you to have ideas and comparisons to help you decide where to side.

[Kemarit]

why would anybody want to waste time debating with someone who not only doesn't understand bitcoin but also is closing his eyes and ears and just repeats no like a mule? the same arguments have been used for over a decade against bitcoin while it continues to grow and make the same people angrier and more scared.
debates are only worth it if they are between two rational people.

Or at least people who are already close minded about Bitcoin and didn't see the positive benefits in can bring to every individual that is willing to test it out?

So it's better to just sit and see how what will be their next argument against Bitcoin to fit to their narrative. And as Bitcoin grows, the more they are going to be left out because they are going to continue their attack but bitcoin enthusiast are getting the positive result. We are going in the next decade, so no matter how many criticism and attacks are being thrown, Bitcoin will continue go go mainstream.

[o_e_l_e_o]

I'm going to quote myself below, from the previous thread I read about Peter Schiff. The TL;DR is that he is consistently wrong on everything, and taking his advice is a terrible idea. Also worth pointing out that OP is a well known troll, and only ever posts baseless nonsense like this.

Yawn. When are people going to stop listening to Schiff?

In October 2012, when gold was around $1,700 he said it was going to $5,000 within 2 years: https://www.cnbc.com/id/49550053. Not only did it not hit $5,000, but it never went higher than the $1,700 it was when he made his prediction. In fact, all gold did over the next two years was slowly lose value down to around $1,200.

In December 2015, having been proved monumentally wrong, he made the same prediction that gold was heading for $5,000: https://www.cnbc.com/2015/12/17/gold-is-still-going-to-5000-peter-schiff.html. Now, 4 years on from that, again not only has gold not hit $5,000, but it has never gone higher than the $1,700 it was when he made his original prediction 7 years ago, and is currently sitting around $1,500.

Having been proved completely wrong again, earlier this year he made the same prediction yet again: https://schiffgold.com/videos/peter-schiff-gold-will-go-much-higher-than-5000-video/. Let's see how that turns out for him.

Looking at his predictions for bitcoin, in July last year when bitcoin was around $6,000, he said bitcoin was heading for $1,000 and would then collapse entirely: https://hacked.com/peter-schiff-tells-joe-rogan-bitcoin-price-will-hit-1000/. Needless to say we never came close to $1,000, and yet again the exact opposite of what he has predicted has happened, and we are up 50% from when he made his prediction.

Even last month he said we had hit a "major top" and were rapidly heading for $4,000: https://twitter.com/PeterSchiff/status/1176577713412419589. Yet again, wrong.

He is so completely invested in gold that he rubbishes anything and everything that isn't gold, and refuses to see past his catalogue of errors. I would hate to think what his returns over the last decade have been since he is so consistently wrong all the time. If you did the exact opposite of what he said over the last 10 years, you would be sitting on a nice profit.

TL;DR: If Schiff says bitcoin is going to collapse, that makes me bullish.

To answer these specific points is trivial.

Points 1-3 are essentially "Gold is better". See above for why this argument is nonsense. Schiff is heavily invested in gold and will say anything to try to prop up his poor investment portfolio.

4 - A non-argument. No one seriously thinks bitcoin is "going to the moon" simply because it requires time and energy to mine. The fact that he even suggests this is a testament to his lack of knowledge.

5 - Another non-argument. I completely agree that a limited supply of something does not automatically mean it is valuable. This isn't an argument against bitcoin, however. Although a limited supply is obviously better than more fiat being printed at will out of thin air until it collapses, that's not why bitcoin is valuable.

6 - Libra is a centralized, censored, seizable, privacy invading, shitcoin. If you want to use a system like that, then go use PayPal.

7 - Bitcoin is risky, and no serious user in the space would ever claim otherwise.

[HardFacts]

the same arguments have been used for over a decade against bitcoin while it continues to grow and make the same people angrier and more scared.

debates are only worth it if they are between two rational people.

1.   Bitcoin grew for 8 years, irrational bubbles can get far bigger and last longer than anyone thinks.  Just look at the US stock market and tell me bubbles can not be huge, and suck a lot of people into thinking they are real value.  Same with Bitcoin.   Bitcoin bubble popped 2 years ago, and anyone that invested near the highs has been financially DESTROYED... Yes it is very possible to lose your arse investing in bitcoin.

2.   TRUE:  The bitcoin people are the ones that resort to CENSORSHIP 🤐🤐🤐 and other similar tactics to keep anyone from saying anything they do not want to hear.  When bitcoin negative subject starts to gain some popularity here on this forum, the moderators kill it, lock it, or put it in a place where no one will ever see it.  

PETER SCHIFF actually invites bitcoin people onto his program to give them their best shot at advocating for Bitcoin and lets the listener decide  👍👍👍👍

Hard Facts

[o_e_l_e_o]

1.   Bitcoin grew for 8 years, irrational bubbles can get far bigger and last longer than anyone thinks.

It's a bubble, it's a Ponzi, it's a pyramid scheme, it's going to crash, yadda yadda yadda. Bitcoin has been declared dead by the media no less than 379 times, and thousands of times on here and reddit, and yet here we are, the best performing asset of the decade with development and adoption going stronger than ever. You're going to have to better than just proclaiming "It's a bubble!!1".

2.   TRUE:  The bitcoin people are the ones that resort to CENSORSHIP 🤐🤐🤐

Absolutely correct. That's why all your posts have been deleted, you've been banned, this topic has been locked, and we aren't having this conversation. Oh wait...

[HardFacts]

Absolutely correct. That's why all your posts have been deleted, you've been banned, this topic has been locked, and we aren't having this conversation. Oh wait...

You are not to bright, are you    As I VERY CLEARLY stated, any topic that really catches on is killed by moving it to where no one will see it, or it is locked so that no one can discuss it further.     If you not smart enough to understand that censorship 🤐🤐🤐 can be done without outright banning, why should anyone listen to you about their investments and their money ?

Hard Facts

[o_e_l_e_o]

As I VERY CLEARLY stated, any topic that really catches on is killed by moving it to where no one will see it, or it is locked so that no one can discuss it further.

You had one topic locked, not because it was anti-bitcoin but because it was insubstantial (just like this one) and went entirely off-topic and had several users discussing using botnets and wanting to "share tactics" about using botnets. This was quite clearly explained to you in another topic you opened here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5202605.0).

If you have evidence of other threads being moved or locked, please post it here. Also, this hardly constitutes censorship, since all the posts are still available to be read, and you are still free to open more nonsense threads such as this one.

[The Sceptical Chymist]

Back in 1990, the internet was the future, but that does not mean the first internet browser ( Netscape 1.0 ) was the best and most valuable browser on the planet...  

Can't argue with that, but I would point out that even though there are thousands of coins and tokens in existence, bitcoin is still the most valuable and the most popular by far.  Netscape was on its way out by around 1997 if I'm not mistaken, which would be seven years of dominance if it was created in 1990 as you say.  Bitcoin has already been here for ten years and it shows no signs of having its dominance challenged by anything else in the world of crypto. 

It's kind of interesting to think about that, because Schiff does have a point here.  But then again, sometimes the first technologies do remain at the top--look at eBay and Amazon, which were some of the first big websites that allowed online purchases.  They're both still going strong today.

I tend to tune out things Schiff has to say, because if I recall correctly he's made some very wacky predictions about gold and silver and I think he's a permabull in that respect.  But anyway, don't let one man's opinions on bitcoin drive you nuts.  Bitcoin itself couldn't care less, believe me.

[HardFacts]

Back in 1990, the internet was the future, but that does not mean the first internet browser ( Netscape 1.0 ) was the best and most valuable browser on the planet...  

Can't argue with that, but I would point out that even though there are thousands of coins and tokens in existence, bitcoin is still the most valuable and the most popular by far.  Netscape was on its way out by around 1997 if I'm not mistaken, which would be seven years of dominance if it was created in 1990 as you say.  Bitcoin has already been here for ten years and it shows no signs of having its dominance challenged by anything else in the world of crypto. 

It's kind of interesting to think about that, because Schiff does have a point here.  But then again, sometimes the first technologies do remain at the top--look at eBay and Amazon, which were some of the first big websites that allowed online purchases.  They're both still going strong today.

I tend to tune out things Schiff has to say, because if I recall correctly he's made some very wacky predictions about gold and silver and I think he's a permabull in that respect.  But anyway, don't let one man's opinions on bitcoin drive you nuts.  Bitcoin itself couldn't care less, believe me.

1.   There is a video on YouTube that shows the most popular websites over the years,  and the most popular sites for the first 10 years were not Amazon and Ebay...  It was very Surprising for me to watch this video.  Remember AOL America On Line, they were # 1 for many years.  How many use them now

2.    DO YOURSELF A HUGE FAVOR.  Watch " PETER SCHIFF WAS RIGHT " on YouTube, he was not just predicting a housing and financial crash in 2006, he was saying EXACTLY WHY and HOW it would happen.

3.    PETER SCHIFF was absolutely right in saying the Federal Reserve would cut interest rates and restart quantitative easing in 2019, when EVERYONE ELSE was predicting 4 rate hikes last year.   Things are happening EXACTLY like Peter Schiff has been predicting.  He see the problems before other people, which has caused his timing to be early, but he is making incredibly ACCURATE predictions. 

Hard Facts

[o_e_l_e_o]

Netscape was on its way out by around 1997 if I'm not mistaken, which would be seven years of dominance if it was created in 1990 as you say.

His analogy is flawed, regardless. Netscape died when it was bought out. The open source project which used to be Netscape continued to be developed and went on to become Firefox, which is hands down the best browser behind Tor for privacy and security. If it were somehow possible for bitcoin to be "bought out", then I have little doubt the most, if not all, of the main contributors would leave and continue to work on what we all understand to be bitcoin.

but he is making incredibly ACCURATE predictions.

If you throw enough darts, you will eventually hit a bullseye. Peter Schiff has made an awful lot of predictions. A handful of them have been accurate. Many of them have been completely wrong. See my post here, which I quoted above, with links to all his predictions about both gold and bitcoin, which he has been repeatedly and consistently completely wrong about.

[btcmurat]

Bitcoin has been trading in this market for 10 years. Bitcoin proved itself. The price is still rising. There's a longer road to Bitcoin. You need to focus on technology, regardless of price. Bitcoin has brought many innovations. Not only did the value increase, technology is also improving.

[Soratrade]

With his libertarian gold-bug background you can clearly see that he is not interested in any real honest discussion, because otherwise he would at least agree on a few things.
He is not interested in getting even one of his arguments broken down, because he knows they are all broken because he got no single killer argument.
He just doesn't like bitcoin and got his gold business, we should just ignore him.
But on the other hand he is funny to watch because one can also clearly see he is very salty about missing to become a billionaire with bitcoin. He knows he would have been the perfect bitcoin jesus

[HardFacts]

With his libertarian gold-bug background you can clearly see that he is not interested in any real honest discussion, because otherwise he would at least agree on a few things.
He is not interested in getting even one of his arguments broken down, because he knows they are all broken because he got no single killer argument.
He just doesn't like bitcoin and got his gold business, we should just ignore him.
But on the other hand he is funny to watch because one can also clearly see he is very salty about missing to become a billionaire with bitcoin. He knows he would have been the perfect bitcoin jesus

1.   Governments and Central Banks are buying GOLD, not BitCoin.   That fact alone should be enough to make you think very, very, very hard about investing in BitCoin.

2.   If Peter Schiff thought BitCoin was a good investment, he would own a BitCoin business instead of a Gold Business.

3.   Peter Schiff invites people to openly debate him on his show and live also, your  first statement is UTTERLY WRONG and DISHONEST.

4.   You are correct about one thing, he could have been a billionaire if he knew how big BitCoin was going to get...  But I bet you are not a Billionaire either 

Hard Facts