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Author Topic: 50 merit for an non-contribute topic  (Read 570 times)
Blitzboy
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January 06, 2020, 06:17:08 AM
Last edit: January 06, 2020, 06:49:27 AM by Blitzboy
Merited by ChuckBuck (1), hosseinimr93 (1)
 #1

You can see throung this picture:


I wonder what the purpose of this merits is. I know that everyone has the right to give his or her merits freely. But is this a worthy way to give away a tremendous amount of merit? As far as I know, that is all the default merit he has, because he hasn't even received any merit from anyone.

I think we should give our merits more worthwhile, not having to dump everything on someone like this case.

Topic

 
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January 06, 2020, 06:29:32 AM
 #2

Yeah.. This is quite shady. That 50 merit sent is the first sent merit from the gizmoh account in the last 120 days.

It's either:
  • He's sending the merit to a friend or to a secondary account
  • The gizmoh account got hacked
  • The 50 merit is bought

There's zero way that topic deserved the 50 merit lol.

The topic in question: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5215178
gizmoh: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=87919

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January 06, 2020, 06:35:46 AM
 #3

The purpose is clear. Abusing the merit system
The user probably know nothing about trust system (The abuser will get negative trust from DT members once they see this) or don't know merit transactions are shown publicly.
Most probably, the account has been hacked or sold and now a newbie that know nothing about the forum is using the legendary account.  

Soon both accounts will be banned or at least will get negative trust.

Maybe, theymos should consider decaying unused smerits.

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January 06, 2020, 06:53:38 AM
Merited by hosseinimr93 (1)
 #4

Merited post:
I need to track down a thief who stole coins from me. I will have his full ID and address soon.

Need PI and a though guy..

Archived: http://archive.is/vgSCz

If you ask for my opinion, I would say this is mocking the system (assuming both users aren't connected in some manner) and this transaction should be reversed immediately. I see people struggle to rank up while been very productive yet users like this make their effort look useless. The post isn't worthy of even 1 merit talk more of 50 and assuming one could send more than 50 merit per month to particular users, the user would had probably gotten more.

I know the merit issue is very subjective but come on guys cases like this that involves large amount of merit shouldn't be overlooked. This is obviously a misused of the system and it shouldn't be encouraged considering the post been merited isn't even a quality (contributive) post. Seems this most have been an airdropped smerits which again bring about the discussion, all Airdropped smerit that haven't been used upto now should be decayed to minimize scenario like this from reoccuring.

We should have a report button for cases like this (large merit abuse) so the adminstrator can investigate and probably reverse the transaction).

Soon both accounts will be banned or at least will get negative trust.

This isn't an offense worthy of ban (they haven't broken any forum rules which consequences is getting banned), we're also discourage from leaving negative feedbacks on users account for behaviors that doesn't involve trust like spamming, merit abuse etc best solution would be a reversal of the transaction by theymos.

Ps: Can @LoyceV get his demerit source status already to tackle issues like this.

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Blitzboy
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January 06, 2020, 06:55:11 AM
 #5

lol  Grin obviously, that post is not even worthy of such a merit. It's ridiculous, but I'm not the authority to handle this problem. So I post it here for everyone's comments and help. Anyone with full authority or trusted, please tag these users or take the right measures, I hope this situation does not happen anytime in the future. The merit system should not be used for wrong purposes.

 
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January 06, 2020, 06:58:28 AM
 #6

Funny that the Legendary account has also sent 50 to another newbie dupe (IndecentProposal) today on a similar PI topic.

So at least 3 accounta in total.

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January 06, 2020, 07:08:44 AM
 #7

Great share !! That's what I wanted to draw attention to... There are 5 months waiting for this 50 merit in Local forum.. People are leaving for the sake of bounty..
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January 06, 2020, 07:19:59 AM
 #8

I am curious to see what that person does with the merit from gizmoh. If the one post newbie doesn't spend the merit, I wouldn't worry about this, especially if he doesn't post again.

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tranthidung
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January 06, 2020, 07:22:54 AM
Last edit: January 06, 2020, 08:15:07 AM by tranthidung
Merited by mk4 (1), hosseinimr93 (1)
 #9

Yeah.. This is quite shady. That 50 merit sent is the first sent merit from the gizmoh account in the last 120 days.
Nope, that batch of 50 merits is the first one he gave his sMerits away.

  • According to the merit data dump from theymos (extracted by LoyceV and stored on loyce.club), last week (2019w52), he did not send a single sMerit away, before today.
  • According to the converted dataset, released by LoyceV, stored at loyce.club, there is no history of merit transaction for that account.

[1]: http://loyce.club/Merit/merit.all.txt
[2]: http://loyce.club/Merit/userID_sent_received.txt

But that account shows nothing strange with password and email changes on profile page and on the the modlog page. There are three rounds of password changes, back in 2018 and 2019 (early months of each year). I don't see strong signals of hack.


Soon both accounts will be banned or at least will get negative trust.

Maybe, theymos should consider decaying unused smerits.
No one will be banned simply because of shady behaviours with trading or merit transactions.

Decaying unused smerits, I don't think it will happen.
Moreover, there are barely cases that theymos stepped in and do roll back (demeriting) with 16 negative merit transactions so far, but all of them happened months ago (February of 2019, forum time). Sent_userid = 0 is the forum account, used to roll back merits.
Code:
       +-------------------------------------------------------------+
        |          forumtime   amount   sent_userid   received_userid |
        |-------------------------------------------------------------|
132299. | 05feb2019 22:07:11       -2             0             92110 |
132300. | 05feb2019 22:07:10       -5             0             81995 |
132301. | 05feb2019 22:07:10       -2             0           1316028 |
132302. | 05feb2019 22:07:10       -9             0            290351 |
132303. | 05feb2019 22:07:10       -1             0            289011 |
        |-------------------------------------------------------------|
132304. | 05feb2019 22:07:10       -9             0            249872 |
132305. | 05feb2019 22:07:10       -7             0            249436 |
132306. | 05feb2019 22:07:10       -8             0            165478 |
132307. | 05feb2019 22:07:10       -2             0              9645 |
132308. | 05feb2019 22:07:10      -10             0            358020 |
        |-------------------------------------------------------------|
132309. | 05feb2019 22:07:10      -10             0             15728 |
132310. | 05feb2019 22:07:10      -10             0           2536607 |
132311. | 05feb2019 22:07:10       -4             0           1246188 |
132312. | 05feb2019 22:07:10      -10             0            355462 |
132313. | 05feb2019 22:07:10      -10             0             92110 |
        |-------------------------------------------------------------|
132314. | 05feb2019 22:07:10       -5             0           2472107 |
        +-------------------------------------------------------------+
Neutrally, I gave you data, the rest things for data interpretations depend on your own thoughts.

Personally, 50 merits can not change the destiny of one account. If one is unable to make a single good post, the one will consequently be unable to rank up without other abuse and they will fastly dry out of their airdropped sMerits.



Theymos:
  • He states that he only starts to feel issues with hundreds of merits used illegitimately.  Cheesy
So I noticed it says unused Merit can be decayed at some point in the future - What's the point of this?  Is it just to keep people from stagnating their Merit and not using it?

There is currently no decay, but if hoarding seems to become a problem, I might add it.

Also, what are your thoughts on people here using their numerous alt accounts to abuse the Merit system?  Granted, there's not much to "abuse", but someone who has a dozen alt accounts, say one of them gets selected as a Merit source, couldn't that have a negative impact on the system?

If they don't have a source: how would they? Unless they are a source, they have to get the merit from somewhere. A group of accounts without a source can't generate merit without making good posts; they can only inefficiently spread it out among the accounts.

If they do have a source, then that's something that we'll need to detect. The merit transfers are public, so it shouldn't be that difficult. There are also various limits in place which would help to limit the damage from that.

I think that tagging may be appropriate in particularly obvious cases, or particularly egregious cases involving hundreds of merit points and several posts. But generally you should start out by assuming good faith, and only change that opinion as the evidence really piles up. Tagging someone immediately after an instance of apparently-inexplicable meriting is too trigger-happy IMO. Even if it is a case of illegitimate merit, even hundreds of illegitimate merit points are not much of a problem IMO, so you have to ask whether it's worthwhile to possibly make a mistake by tagging someone who is merely suspicious.

Merit sales, transfers to aliases, back-and-forth trading, etc. are not much of an issue. All illegitimate merit will decay, and will account for a tiny and very expensive fraction of the total merit economy. It's basically a rounding error; fight it where convenient, but waste no sleep over it.




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January 06, 2020, 07:49:15 AM
 #10

i am confused gizmoh 50 merit sent , he really sent or miss take

gizmoh miss take sent merit  or gizmoh Secondary Account or anyone hack her account and sent merit
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January 06, 2020, 07:54:23 AM
 #11


Personally, 50 merits can not change the destiny of one account. If one is unable to make a single good post, the one will consequently be unable to rank up without other abuse and they will fastly dry out of their airdropped sMerits.

That alts could actually participate in Bounty Campaigns though, if the OP put in some effort.

Provided the CM isn't aware of that.

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January 06, 2020, 08:01:30 AM
 #12

Soon both accounts will be banned or at least will get negative trust.
This isn't an offense worthy of ban (they haven't broken any forum rules which consequences is getting banned), we're also discourage from leaving negative feedbacks on users account for behaviors that doesn't involve trust like spamming, merit abuse etc best solution would be a reversal of the transaction by theymos.

No one will be banned simply because of shady behaviours with trading or merit transactions.

Yes, both of you are right. No one will be banned for merit abusing. Also, I agree that reversal of such a merit transaction is a good idea.
But as far as I know admins (or maybe only theymos, I am not sure) can ban suspicious accounts until they prove their ownership. I have seen some topics about such cases in "Meta".
The account that has sent those 50 merits might have been hacked.

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January 06, 2020, 08:02:12 AM
Last edit: January 06, 2020, 08:58:55 AM by tranthidung
 #13

That alts could actually participate in Bounty Campaigns though, if the OP put in some effort.

Provided the CM isn't aware of that.
I know it but bounties are worthless, time-wasting, IMO. That is why I make the previous statement on this.
Also, I agree that reversal of such a merit transaction is a good idea.
theymos does not feel hundreds of illegitimate merits is a big issue. (please see the quote in my previous post)

I don't remember why the forum rolled back those 16 merit transactions (with small amount as you see). Maybe LoyceV or DdmrDdmr can help. I see many topics about 50 merit transactions for non-sense posts but the data shows no history of roll-back on those 50-illegitimate-merits transactions.


By now, we have 497 transactions with 50 merits, 331 transactions in 2018 and 165 ones in 2019.
Why 50? Because you are not allowed to send more than 50 merits to a single user each month.

* The label 0, in fact, represents negative merits (I made a wrong label).


Edited:
Based on time points, I found it. Due to political issues with merit usages, theymos stepped in and rolled-back merit transactions made by stingers, and finally removed him as a merit source. Those amount of transactios fluctuates from 1 to 10, mostly 10, as you see, that evidence matches with below findings.
You need 10 earned merits to vote right?

I can provide you with that to be eligible for voting. Not many but some of the supportive and abused, Jr.member and newbies can vote because of my help which is an honour for me.

Is stingers still a merit source?

Not anymore. That's clear abuse, awarding merit for political reasons rather than any idea of quality. Only because he was a source, I effectively undid those merit sends. If he had not been a merit source, I still would've blacklisted anyone who got into DT1 through that type of shenanigans.

I hadn't read into the thread deeply enough to see that stuff. Those are better arguments against the trustworthiness of H8bussesNbicycles & co., but note that the current negative-trust-ratings were sent long before that. Before February, the thread looks like politics to me.




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January 06, 2020, 08:22:58 AM
 #14

This is clear merit abuse in my opinion, and that's happening because no one tagging them since admin isn't  much encouraged to tag. But admin should reverse when happen such as massive abuse. Otherwise Some good contributors will discourage from their contributions and will look for easy merit scheme like that. What I have seen now l, mostly merit abuse case happened from airdrop merits. Abuser are feeling freedom now, they don't have fear of tag/ban.

Almost 2 year going on after merit implementation, those still didn't spent airdroped their smerit that should be decy and refill it to merit source or add new merit source. So it couldn't be abuse anymore from airdroped merit. Who have earned merit by their contributions, I think think they will not abuse merit. Because they know how hard to earn even single merits.

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January 06, 2020, 08:24:26 AM
 #15

If this happened during the time when Merit was introduced, it would almost automatically lead to the saying that it's an alt. Easily connected, but now that Merit has been part of the norm, all you could just say is it is an abuse. You can never really tell what happened unless the user gives an explanation but as long as you could see the quality of the post, it's really not worth that much IMHO.


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January 06, 2020, 08:37:16 AM
 #16

Few sentence and nonsense statement for 50merits is unacceptable. I accept it if the post is quite humorous or very straight clear answer from a hard question but no it isn't. Anyway the sender doesn't react so meaning this account is either hacked or the account received is an alt of him.

It's just hard to accept some are contributing well and helpful post but got only few merits versus this kind of event. Like many said if merits is reversible then this would be avoided.

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January 06, 2020, 08:52:53 AM
 #17

Someone sends 50 merits and forum is on fire  Grin

Just consider the option that this 2 guys talked in PM and maybe they have some deal related to job offer OP suggested.

Don't load your guns so fast

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January 06, 2020, 09:24:34 AM
 #18

Someone sends 50 merits and forum is on fire  Grin

Just consider the option that this 2 guys talked in PM and maybe they have some deal related to job offer OP suggested.

Don't load your guns so fast

Deal in exchange for merits is literally what "buying merit" means.

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January 06, 2020, 09:29:02 AM
 #19

IndecentProposal

Registration Date: 9/13/2018

This user recently woke up from a long period of inactivity.

1/5/2020 5:34:03 AM    woke up

1/6/2020 5:50:57 AM    Profile woke up    

Source : https://bpip.org/profile.aspx?p=IndecentProposal

Yes something phishy with the account !


And when i look at the https://bitcointalk.org/seclog.php there are a lot of users woked up lately !!!

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January 06, 2020, 09:51:16 AM
 #20

Someone sends 50 merits and forum is on fire  Grin

Just consider the option that this 2 guys talked in PM and maybe they have some deal related to job offer OP suggested.

Don't load your guns so fast

In that case, I don't think merit should probably be sent though, giving positive trust feedback would be more fitting than just giving 50 merit on a not-so-merit-worthy topic.

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