Vispilio (OP)
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January 06, 2020, 12:58:36 PM
Last edit: January 06, 2020, 04:25:38 PM by Vispilio |
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It's been mentioned in numerous commentaries already that this assassination sets a very dangerous precedent, in that it's the first of its kind in modern times where a state has
assassinated a top military commander of another country without an official declaration of war...
What do Americans, even Trump supporters, think about the vileness of this act ?.. Drone strike in a foreign land, against the top general of a country you are supposedly in negotiations with ?..
If this is justified, then there are many countries that feel USA, CIA and its proxies are committing even worse acts of para military operations than those organized by Suleymani, wouldn't this put a potential mark on all US officials anywhere on Earth for the indefinite future ?..
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KingScorpio
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January 06, 2020, 01:36:07 PM |
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It's been mentioned in numerous commentaries already that this assassination sets a very dangerous precedent, in that it's the first of its kind in modern times where a state has
assassinated a top military official of another country without an official declaration of war...
What do Americans, even Trump supporters, think about the vileness of this act ?.. Drone strike in a foreign land, against the top general of a country you are supposedly in negotiations with ?..
If this is justified, then there are many countries that feel USA, CIA and its proxies are committing even worse acts of para military operations than those organized by Suleymani, wouldn't this put a potential mark on all US officials anywhere on Earth for the indefinite future ?..
oh there was always a mark on all us officials and even nonofficials, ordinary western citizens where targeted violently and killed violently around the world many american development helpers where killed worldwide by the ideology of iran (islam + nazism), iran crying out because one of their imperialist generals was killed abroad, (iran had many regional enemies) is nothing compared to what western countries are moving through. iran is some kind of mixture between a nazi state and a religious fundamentalist empire, nazi states are unfortunately prevalent everywhere around the world after end of colonialism and the cold war, the are the dominant social cooperation group. it is actively acting imperial (persian sphere) and attacks the activity of its neigbourhood, (jews, turks, arabs) although i think killing a differen't state general wasn't just iran though was acting extremely aggressive in the region. |
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TheCoinGrabber
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January 06, 2020, 02:33:48 PM |
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oh there was always a mark on all us officials and even nonofficials, ordinary western citizens where targeted violently and killed violently around the world many american development helpers where killed worldwide by the ideology of iran (islam + nazism), iran crying out because one of their imperialist generals was killed abroad, (iran had many regional enemies) is nothing compared to what western countries are moving through.
iran is some kind of mixture between a nazi state and a religious fundamentalist empire, nazi states are unfortunately prevalent everywhere around the world after end of colonialism and the cold war, the are the dominant social cooperation group.
it is actively acting imperial (persian sphere) and attacks the activity of its neigbourhood, (jews, turks, arabs)
although i think killing a differen't state general wasn't just iran though was acting extremely aggressive in the region.
Didn't this general did a lot against ISIS (who were attacking Shias)? What's weird about Iran was it was partly or fully a result of American policy (depending on who you ask). It was very secular monarchy and then it went nationalist which didn't please Washington. And then the Ayatollah America fostered bit their hands once he returned to Iran. We can only speculate how far this will escalate and that will hinge on whether Iran truly have nukes to retaliate with. |
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KingScorpio
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January 06, 2020, 02:37:22 PM |
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oh there was always a mark on all us officials and even nonofficials, ordinary western citizens where targeted violently and killed violently around the world many american development helpers where killed worldwide by the ideology of iran (islam + nazism), iran crying out because one of their imperialist generals was killed abroad, (iran had many regional enemies) is nothing compared to what western countries are moving through.
iran is some kind of mixture between a nazi state and a religious fundamentalist empire, nazi states are unfortunately prevalent everywhere around the world after end of colonialism and the cold war, the are the dominant social cooperation group.
it is actively acting imperial (persian sphere) and attacks the activity of its neigbourhood, (jews, turks, arabs)
although i think killing a differen't state general wasn't just iran though was acting extremely aggressive in the region.
Didn't this general did a lot against ISIS (who were attacking Shias)? What's weird about Iran was it was partly or fully a result of American policy (depending on who you ask). It was very secular monarchy and then it went nationalist which didn't please Washington. And then the Ayatollah America fostered bit their hands once he returned to Iran. We can only speculate how far this will escalate and that will hinge on whether Iran truly have nukes to retaliate with. well after removal of isis (arab islamist imperialism, there is still persian imperialism in the region) and if the region would become some kinc of mixture between communist and capitalist cooperation, like Europe EU, then still there would be a problem because there would be american imperialism and gazism (geographic socialism), plus there would be effectively institutions in the middle east enforcing their financial sovereignty. |
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sovie
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January 06, 2020, 05:50:23 PM |
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If there was no war then what that Iranian general was doing in Iraq? Doing dirty work for Iranian empire.
It was a conflict b/w USA and Iran, the most interesting part of the story was both countries land was not used in this conflcit and both these countries remain safe.
We have already seen so many war. Iran and USA must settle there differences and let us all live.
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KingScorpio
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January 06, 2020, 06:05:12 PM |
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oh there was always a mark on all us officials and even nonofficials, ordinary western citizens where targeted violently and killed violently around the world many american development helpers where killed worldwide by the ideology of iran (islam + nazism), iran crying out because one of their imperialist generals was killed abroad, (iran had many regional enemies) is nothing compared to what western countries are moving through.
iran is some kind of mixture between a nazi state and a religious fundamentalist empire, nazi states are unfortunately prevalent everywhere around the world after end of colonialism and the cold war, the are the dominant social cooperation group.
it is actively acting imperial (persian sphere) and attacks the activity of its neigbourhood, (jews, turks, arabs)
although i think killing a differen't state general wasn't just iran though was acting extremely aggressive in the region.
Didn't this general did a lot against ISIS (who were attacking Shias)? What's weird about Iran was it was partly or fully a result of American policy (depending on who you ask). It was very secular monarchy and then it went nationalist which didn't please Washington. And then the Ayatollah America fostered bit their hands once he returned to Iran. We can only speculate how far this will escalate and that will hinge on whether Iran truly have nukes to retaliate with. well muslims have their conflict around who holds the chalifate since a long time, it needs a lot of understanding how it works. shia islam started with the slaughtering of an insurgency against the chalifate. |
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BADecker
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January 07, 2020, 02:36:33 AM |
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coins4commies
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@cryptocommies
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January 07, 2020, 05:07:23 AM |
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Almost all of the wrong in the world dates back to some sort of US interference. Iran doesn't hate jews. Jews live peacefully in Iran and feel much safer and more respected than Jews in the west. The US has much more antisemitic attacks than Iran. You should really stop confusing opposition to Israeli apartheid with antisemitism because conflating Judaism with the state of Israel is in itself an antisemitic concept.
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msarro
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January 07, 2020, 11:17:27 AM |
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Those who live with guns die with guns - Anonymous
US invasion in Iraq was not justified since day one. They came to find WMDs but only found oil here. While Iranian general presence in Iraqi soil is also not justified, since he was there killing only sunni muslims and enemies of Iraqi Shia regime.
The only one suffering this situation is innocent civilians of Iraq.
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TheCoinGrabber
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January 07, 2020, 12:54:47 PM |
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Didn't this general did a lot against ISIS (who were attacking Shias)? What's weird about Iran was it was partly or fully a result of American policy (depending on who you ask). It was very secular monarchy and then it went nationalist which didn't please Washington. And then the Ayatollah America fostered bit their hands once he returned to Iran.
We can only speculate how far this will escalate and that will hinge on whether Iran truly have nukes to retaliate with.
well muslims have their conflict around who holds the chalifate since a long time, it needs a lot of understanding how it works. shia islam started with the slaughtering of an insurgency against the chalifate. Haven't read the full history but I remember reading somewhere that this is the true problem of the Middle East... Unlike with Western culture where America pretty much reign supreme (the rivalry between Catholicism/Protestantism pretty much made irrelevant by secularization) Islam is a "culture" without a figurehead. Hence the Arabian/Persian struggle for hegemony. There's enough enmity between these two that I don't think it'll just disappear even if both turn into secular democracies. |
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KingScorpio
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January 07, 2020, 01:44:57 PM |
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Didn't this general did a lot against ISIS (who were attacking Shias)? What's weird about Iran was it was partly or fully a result of American policy (depending on who you ask). It was very secular monarchy and then it went nationalist which didn't please Washington. And then the Ayatollah America fostered bit their hands once he returned to Iran.
We can only speculate how far this will escalate and that will hinge on whether Iran truly have nukes to retaliate with.
well muslims have their conflict around who holds the chalifate since a long time, it needs a lot of understanding how it works. shia islam started with the slaughtering of an insurgency against the chalifate. Haven't read the full history but I remember reading somewhere that this is the true problem of the Middle East... Unlike with Western culture where America pretty much reign supreme (the rivalry between Catholicism/Protestantism pretty much made irrelevant by secularization) Islam is a "culture" without a figurehead. Hence the Arabian/Persian struggle for hegemony. There's enough enmity between these two that I don't think it'll just disappear even if both turn into secular democracies. jes it is a struggle, but it hasn't something to do with arabian persian its shiite/sunnite, the fact that it became arabian/persian has something to do with how islam expanded, the once proud persian empire collapsed and got exploited by the savaging arabians, that sold persian girls into the slave market etc. it was impossible for the entire persian nation to just join sunnite islam, for the persians the arabian sunnite islam was something extremely cruel, and so they absorbed shiite islam which was an opposition movement against the established sunnite khaliph |
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BADecker
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January 07, 2020, 08:48:53 PM |
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Almost all of the wrong in the world dates back to some sort of US interference. Iran doesn't hate jews. Jews live peacefully in Iran and feel much safer and more respected than Jews in the west. The US has much more antisemitic attacks than Iran. You should really stop confusing opposition to Israeli apartheid with antisemitism because conflating Judaism with the state of Israel is in itself an antisemitic concept.
Wow! The United States isn't 250 years old, yet, and you want to blame all the wrong in the world on the U.S.? What? Does the U.S. have time machines so that they can go back to creation? You sound like a bigot.  |
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Vispilio (OP)
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January 08, 2020, 04:27:49 AM
Last edit: January 13, 2020, 04:26:15 AM by Vispilio |
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Almost all of the wrong in the world dates back to some sort of US interference. Iran doesn't hate jews. Jews live peacefully in Iran and feel much safer and more respected than Jews in the west. The US has much more antisemitic attacks than Iran. You should really stop confusing opposition to Israeli apartheid with antisemitism because conflating Judaism with the state of Israel is in itself an antisemitic concept.
Wow! The United States isn't 250 years old, yet, and you want to blame all the wrong in the world on the U.S.? What? Does the U.S. have time machines so that they can go back to creation? You sound like a bigot. haha definitely not for all history, but many experts agree that CIA and the infamous "Green Belt" Project had a lot to do with a number of independent countries around the Middle East descending back into a medieval version of Political Islam after World War 2, in all of the following cases the minority extremist groups were funded and trained by the USA to use as a puppet against the independent leadership in those countries, and also at least initially as an ideological front against the Soviet influence during the Cold War...  Legendary Founder Ataturk's modern Turkish Republic is currently trying to save its secular and modernized roots, but it's an undeniable reality that this politicized and manipulated version of Islam makes whichever country it gains a foothold in greatly suffer technologically and economically, thereby eventually making them dependent on foreign aid and influence indefinitely... |
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TheCoinGrabber
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January 08, 2020, 01:59:37 PM |
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it was impossible for the entire persian nation to just join sunnite islam, for the persians the arabian sunnite islam was something extremely cruel, and so they absorbed shiite islam which was an opposition movement against the established sunnite khaliph
It makes sense if you think about it that way. Of course it would be better for the Persians to absorb that sect that is opposed to the Sunni leadership. In a way Shia became their state religion. haha definitely not for all history, but most experts agree that CIA and the infamous "Green Belt" Project had a lot to do with a number of independent countries around the Middle East descending back into a medieval version of Political Islam after World War 2,
in all of the following cases the minority extremist groups were funded and trained by the USA to use as a puppet against the independent leadership in those countries, and also at least initially as an ideological front against the Soviet influence during the Cold War...
Legendary Founder Ataturk's modern Turkish Republic is currently trying to save its secular and modernized roots, but it's an undeniable reality that this politicized and manipulated version of Islam makes whichever country it gains a foothold in greatly suffer technologically and economically, thereby eventually making them dependent on foreign aid and influence indefinitely...
Speaking of this version of Islam, doesn't this date even far earlier to WW1? The alliance supported the more radical Islamist leaders to help foster an Arab brand of Islam separate from the (by comparison) more secularist Ottomans to solidify a pan-Arab identity.... aaand then they turned around and broke the Middle East apart amongst themselves when the Ottoman empire fell. |
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johhnyUA
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Crypto for the Crypto Throne!
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January 08, 2020, 02:20:04 PM |
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What do Americans, even Trump supporters, think about the vileness of this act ?.. Drone strike in a foreign land, against the top general of a country you are supposedly in negotiations with ?..
For honest, Suleumani was killed in Iraq (and what he does there? I think you know the right answer) which is "puppet" territory of USA. In Ukraine we call such proxi soldiers - "иxтaмнeты" in meaning that they doing mostly terroristic activity or some deeds that is against international law. I don't see any problem to exterminate them in such way. In Ukraine our army and specops (or maybe russian FSS (FSB) ) also killed some russian commanders (in meaning they had russian citizenship). Not a big deal. Legendary Founder Ataturk's modern Turkish Republic is currently trying to save its secular and modernized roots, but it's an undeniable reality that this politicized and manipulated version of Islam makes whichever country it gains a foothold in greatly suffer technologically and economically, thereby eventually making them dependent on foreign aid and influence indefinitely...
As i know, Turkey is one of the most secular islamic states. For example, like Ukraine with christianity. Something got changed? But in fact, you're talking right about USA role in most of this things. |
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Vispilio (OP)
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January 09, 2020, 03:23:08 AM
Last edit: January 09, 2020, 04:11:41 PM by Vispilio |
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Speaking of this version of Islam, doesn't this date even far earlier to WW1? The alliance supported the more radical Islamist leaders to help foster an Arab brand of Islam separate from the (by comparison) more secularist Ottomans to solidify a pan-Arab identity.... aaand then they turned around and broke the Middle East apart amongst themselves when the Ottoman empire fell.
Great point, some of the current Middle Eastern states were in fact formed "with canes on the desert sand by British lords" so that the Turkish Republic doesn't get access to oil in energy rich regions like Musul and Kerkuk, fake states lead to incredible instability and now that zone is considered "the Harvard of terrorism" even by Trump...
As i know, Turkey is one of the most secular islamic states. For example, like Ukraine with christianity. Something got changed?
But in fact, you're talking right about USA role in most of this things.
The army and the modern elite (called the old guard) did an ok job of protecting at least the fundamental tenets of Ataturk's revolution for a while, but about 20 years ago, with the help of USA influence, led by CIA backed terrorist Fethullah Gulen and his lackeys, a fake islamist cult (now known as feto) infiltrated the upper ranks of military, judiciary and strategic bureaucracy in the country, in league with the corrupt and failing administration of AKP, and the country became far more backwards and medieval after that in many ways... Now Turkei is facing economic and cultural bankruptcy, and about 50% of the population is determined to remove AKP from power asap, so the strife for reforms and modernization continues in the Turkish Republic... |
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BADecker
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January 10, 2020, 07:56:32 AM |
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It was an accident. He was just in the way. |
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nutildah
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January 10, 2020, 08:45:22 AM |
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This escalation of events I think serves one purpose in the eyes of Trump: to take the attention off of his impeachment debacle. It seems pretty uncalled for, and right out of the blue. As everyone knows, U.S. troubles with Iran stems back to the 70s -- skirmishes by proxy are certainly not a recent thing. Officials on both sides are still saying they don't wan't war, but a lot of the general public is led to believe that WWIII has already begun (some of the more gullible ones I suppose).
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