How about a merit faucet / puzzle?

[suchmoon]

I think the key is the difference between a question which has an answer which can just be paraphrased from a single source, and one that requires actual reading and self education; closed questions versus open questions. "Who created bitcoin?" isn't a great question, but you could maybe try something like "Discuss some of the motivations behind Satoshi's creation of bitcoin?" Instead of "What is an unconfirmed transaction?", how about "Explain why it is unsafe to accept unconfirmed transactions?" Anything that requires reading and learning, as opposed to just copy and pasting and changing a few words.

It's almost as if you're saying that we should be using this site as a discussion forum of some sort and even send merits to users who put some effort into their posts. Blasphemy.

[1714943152]

1714943152

[o_e_l_e_o]

It's almost as if you're saying that we should be using this site as a discussion forum of some sort and even send merits to users who put some effort into their posts. Blasphemy.

Great idea! Let's start our own forum, with blackjack and hookers discussion and effort!

I can see how it would be intimidating for a newbie to get involved in a question regarding some technical aspect of bitcoin (for example), when there are plenty of experienced users involved in the discussion. Indeed, one of my pet peeves is people "answering" questions incorrectly or with wrong information because they are trying to boost their post count and end up posting about things they don't know. If you don't know the answer, don't guess or provide bad advice. A thread aimed solely at newbies removes all these barriers, and gives them freedom to make mistakes while still learning.

[qwk]

There was a time for every single user of this forum when [...] they knew nothing about bitcoin.

Formal protest. This is absolutely untrue for satoshi and a few others

Counter protest. There was a time when Satoshi knew nothing about bitcoin because he had not thought it up yet.

Counter counter protest. Satoshi was born all wise and knowing. Prove me wrong!

I think the key is the difference between a question which has an answer which can just be paraphrased from a single source, and one that requires actual reading and self education; closed questions versus open questions. "Who created bitcoin?" isn't a great question, but you could maybe try something like "Discuss some of the motivations behind Satoshi's creation of bitcoin?" Instead of "What is an unconfirmed transaction?", how about "Explain why it is unsafe to accept unconfirmed transactions?" Anything that requires reading and learning, as opposed to just copy and pasting and changing a few words.

It's almost as if you're saying that we should be using this site as a discussion forum of some sort and even send merits to users who put some effort into their posts.

There is a slight difference, I wouldn't necessarily require a very carefully phrased, lengthy, comprehensive answer, but would settle for whatever legible gibberish they're able to cough up

[o_e_l_e_o]

There was a time for every single user of this forum when [...] they knew nothing about bitcoin.

Formal protest. This is absolutely untrue for satoshi and a few others

Counter protest. There was a time when Satoshi knew nothing about bitcoin because he had not thought it up yet.

Counter counter protest. Satoshi was born all wise and knowing. Prove me wrong!

Counter counter counter protest. Your statement assumes Satoshi was born. You cannot prove that.

[qwk]

Counter counter counter protest. Your statement assumes Satoshi was born. You cannot prove that.

Counter counter counter counter protest. If he wasn't born, he is god. As such, he is omniscient. q.e.d.

[Jet Cash]

Indeed, one of my pet peeves is people "answering" questions incorrectly or with wrong information because they are trying to boost their post count and end up posting about things they don't know.

As a newbie, you don't have to answer questions if you aren't sure of the answer. However, you can always start discussions around some of your ideas, and members can be really helpful. I can remember having fairly long discussions about reducing the block generation interval when I first joined the forum, and I was wrong because I didn't understand the problems resulting from the creation of orphan blocks.

I think that one of the differences in the current forum is that I was chasing knowledge rather than merits then. Somehow we have to put merits behind us, and return to the ambition of self-improvement, and not try to harvest chocolate crypto coins.

[Diced90]

What happens when somebody starts handing out the answers to the legions of broken English spammers that seem to flock to this forum every day?

At best, it is a flawed plan, at worst, it is dangerous. There would need to be a huge number of questions and they would need to be randomly assigned in order to make sure the system can't be easily bypassed just like most other online quizzes.

Also, this can't just be gamed by illiterate users, because there would be nothing to stop someone creating hundreds of accounts and scoring the minimum amount of merit on them, then using this merit to transfer to their main account etc.

Alternatively, I think it would be a better idea if people could simply flag other users for merit-worthy posts. These could show up in a stream that merit holders and merit sources can view if they're looking particularly generous.

[TryNinja]

We do that on our local board (Portuguese). Some users from the community make some questions (e.g How does Bitcoin mining work) and if you make a good answer, you get a merit or two). It works because we have quite a small and limited community, so we incentive some activity and learning-seek between us.

This is the thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3336968.0

[pugman]

Its not that the idea itself is entirely bad, there is just severe lack on interest on this forum. I tried starting a Q/A thread for people, it worked a little well at start, then I just started getting answers from the same few people, or from newbies who weren't willing to put *noticeable* effort into the posts, so I eventually gave up. Its kinda the same thing you're proposing. It just died, eventually.

I dont think there's a lack of merits, its that people who usually give merit, give it to the regulars, because hunting for newbies has never gone too well. Jet Cash tried so hard, so so hard, and it sucks how it went. I don't think the community has to try this hard for newbies to earn merit. People who like this place will eventually earn merit. Also, people tend to mistake that if someone doesn't have good english, they won't get merit, which is kinda false, cause I am aware of so many users who have moderate English get more merit than posters with better English.

[akirasendo17]

I think sometimes newbies thought that if you post a lot , just by spamming the threads with nonsense post
they will think they will rank up, but its not true, why because the first thing a newbie will look for is the one
with the highest rank and look at their stats sheet, and think they have lost of post, and they will start, posting
every minute, just to reach a certain post, but since the ranking system already change thats not how it works
What newbies really need to do
1. Post things that can help others ,
2. Share information others don't know
3. Help others problem on something they ask for or seek
4. don't do bad things in others in the community

You see this are simple steps to rank up, when you have this , i assure you those merits will come on raining down
why? because you deserve it, spend more time creating a post, its not how many you post in the forum, its what
the content of the post is it helpful or just a spam,
I hope newbies will be able to read this

[AbelBaricStevenson]

I like the idea of qwk. There could be many educational challenges set with great variety. It would take a large effort to create the challenges and reward deserving. I don't assume merit should be top priority. I like more social small regular group and characters. Meta group and politics are most interesting for me above Bitcoin board right now.

Moist new members may be not be concerned about merits, only interest in accumulation of bitcoins and alt coins. Or perhaps make friends and talk. So merits may not attract people to the challenges, but we can try the small experiment to test? I don't specialize with math or cryptography only recent hear about game theory so merit challenges on these advanced principles will not work for me. Very complex. Some new members can learn these thing deep so worth a try to educate more members on deeper technology. Variations  some other challenges, or discussions on other ideas with advancement of adoption of crypto. A plan how to self perpetually contagion others with crypto interest. Testing and challenges  on board rules and etiquette.
Could be fun to try. No success can stop it. Not dangerous in my opinion to test. What harm? Good suggestion.

[akirasendo17]

Jet Cash has tried to engage Newbies in many topics, but without much result.
The ones who open useless topics are the ones the merit system is supposed to stop from ranking up.

i agree with this , they post a lot things just to reach a certain target post, but the content of the post has nothing , or sometimes a mile a way of the topic
regarding the merit , i would like to suggest to start a topic then, all the newbies will be sharing their thoughts about it and if their statement or answers
or good and helpful i think even other high rank will never hesitate to give them a merit, i really hate spamming since , its just covering the one comment that
has all the thoughts about the topic

[Rohan Kotkar]

So here's my idea:
What if there were a thread where "oldies" posted relatively simple "puzzles" about Bitcoin and its history with a clear-cut, easy to research answer?
And the first newbie to post the correct answer would be awarded a merit or two.

E.g. I might ask for a link to the last post of the creator of Bitcoin.
You post "https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2228.msg29479#msg29479" and you win one merit.

From what i can read and understand, this might be a superb idea. It might also help for gaining some basic knowledge about might be anything related to bitcoins/cryptocurrencies as well as it might open doors of ranking up for several struggling newbies who have a will to rankup.

It would be a good way for us(newbies) to earn few merits and in this case "we would literally earn merits with our knowledge and it really is a quite innovative concept.

Let me answer your first question if you ask one in order to earn a merit.

[o_e_l_e_o]

What happens when somebody starts handing out the answers to the legions of broken English spammers that seem to flock to this forum every day?

I think the point is that it won't be easy to answer questions which have answers which can just be handed out or (more likely) bought and sold, but be questions which require some research and thought. Such a system would be no easier to game for merit than buying an answer to any other thread.

There would need to be a huge number of questions and they would need to be randomly assigned in order to make sure the system can't be easily bypassed just like most other online quizzes.

It's not a case of every newbie is presented with a question to answer. They would just be threads like any others. Once the thread had dwindled, it could be locked.

Alternatively, I think it would be a better idea if people could simply flag other users for merit-worthy posts.

Such a thread already exists here: [self-moderated] Report unmerited good posts to Merit Source. It is very under utilized, and unfortunately consists almost exclusively of people suggesting their own posts.

[Jet Cash]

I've tried to start discussion threads on the beginner's board, and have had mixed success. It's quite difficult to think of suitable topics though. Here is one that I've just started as an experiment.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5216645.0

[FIFA worldcup]

Well, here's another crazy idea of mine.

I couldn't help but notice that a lot of zero-merit-newbies seem to struggle with meeting at least minimum capabilities in English writing.
Also, being newbies, they tend to voice "opinions" or whatever they believe to be such, rather than insightful knowledge of even basic facts about Bitcoin.
It's not uncommon for whole threads to read like
"I think Bitcoin will go moon" "I too think Bitcoin go moon, Sir!" "Oh, but what if Bitcoin not go moon?" "Yes, I hear whales make Bitcoin not go moon."
Well, you get the idea, and you probably know what I'm talking about.

Therefore, I'd like to incentivize newbies to actually learn about Bitcoin, rather than spend their time in futile attempts at grasping somebody's attention and maybe pity-meriting them.

The main theme of the forum is to write constructive and good posts which add value to the forum. If someone is not able to write quality posts he has no right to get merits and rank up by other means. Faucets and puzzles to get the merit will only help non-serious poster rank up and keep spamming without improving themselves.

[Jet Cash]

Well that thread was a waste of time - it's been moved into technical, and no beginners will be visiting there. I don't know why I bother to try to stimulate research by beginners here.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Yeah, what a shame. We can flood the Beginners' Board with pointless topics like "How to earn merit?" and "I ranked up, aren't I amazing!", but if you try to actually stimulate learning and discussion then the topic is moved. What good is the Beginners' Board if not to help beginners explore more complicated topics and ask questions about topics they don't fully understand in a relatively safe environment? theymos has previously expressed his desire to help newbies learn about bitcoin with his courses idea (Idea: Courses), so it's a real shame this has been moved.

I suppose there's your answer though, qwk. If the mods aren't going to allow it, then the whole discussion is moot.

[AbelBaricStevenson]

Well that thread was a waste of time - it's been moved into technical, and no beginners will be visiting there. I don't know why I bother to try to stimulate research by beginners here.

This one may be too difficult to understand. Do you believe it is best for each member to understand deep cryptography first. One small team of experts required only not many. Forum can be useful more , generate army of promoters and push for adoption. Young at school can influence greatly. We maybe shall increase knowledge of the benefits of decentralized governance, and much more fair system, than fiat system? Make all members experts of technical deep topics may be difficult and not needed for the best result of this forum.? How about this idea? If make nice and easy then they can stay on beginners and not moved to expert section? Maybe tasks on Facebook and social to promote ideas for Bitcoin for merit? What about this one? Explain for friends on face book their personal experience with Bitcoin also bitcoin talk forums this build up members on this forum? Always start test first for small effort. Later in their education if interested learn sha 512 encryption advantages?

[JohnBitCo]

Well that thread was a waste of time - it's been moved into technical, and no beginners will be visiting there. I don't know why I bother to try to stimulate research by beginners here.

This one may be too difficult to understand. Do you believe it is best for each member to understand deep cryptography first. One small team of experts required only not many. Forum can be useful more , generate army of promoters and push for adoption. Young at school can influence greatly. We maybe shall increase knowledge of the benefits of decentralized governance, and much more fair system, than fiat system? Make all members experts of technical deep topics may be difficult and not needed for the best result of this forum.? How about this idea? If make nice and easy then they can stay on beginners and not moved to expert section? Maybe tasks on Facebook and social to promote ideas for Bitcoin for merit? What about this one? Explain for friends on face book their personal experience with Bitcoin also bitcoin talk forums this build up members on this forum? Always start test first for small effort. Later in their education if interested learn sha 512 encryption advantages?

Everyone has the right to give ideas and there is nothing bad about it. Some people will like the ideas and others won't. Even if this idea is not to be implemented, some other idea may popup from this and the room for improvement is always there.

This is called freedom of speech.