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January 08, 2020, 01:55:55 AM
 #1

While most people tend to market bitcoin as being anti centralization, anti govt. so on and so forth, it occurred to me that it might just be centralized too. Seemingly we still have whales out there hoarding not just 1 5 or 10 bitcoins and its many many forks mind you (free Extra money) but with thousands upon thousands of bitcoins. So in all of this it's kind of a scary dilemma. What are you thoughts and comments on this seemingly true fact? Thoughts and comments are more than welcome.
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January 08, 2020, 02:17:20 AM
 #2

While most people tend to market bitcoin as being anti centralization, anti govt. so on and so forth, it occurred to me that it might just be centralized too. Seemingly we still have whales out there hoarding not just 1 5 or 10 bitcoins and its many many forks mind you (free Extra money) but with thousands upon thousands of bitcoins. So in all of this it's kind of a scary dilemma. What are you thoughts and comments on this seemingly true fact? Thoughts and comments are more than welcome.
One of the main reason why the people especially the government are not intend to market bitcoin is because they afraid that the bank may down and the Cryptocurrency is the one who will benefit and being on the top. This is one of the big reason why government don't want to regulate it and they want it to make centralized in order for them to control the cryptocurrency and the market situation.
That would probably the main reasons why the government hates and don't want to regulate bitcoin to the people or masses because they afraid of the visibility of cryptocurrency.



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January 08, 2020, 03:54:14 AM
Merited by The Pharmacist (3)
 #3

While most people tend to market bitcoin as being anti centralization, anti govt. so on and so forth, it occurred to me that it might just be centralized too. Seemingly we still have whales out there hoarding not just 1 5 or 10 bitcoins and its many many forks mind you (free Extra money) but with thousands upon thousands of bitcoins. So in all of this it's kind of a scary dilemma. What are you thoughts and comments on this seemingly true fact? Thoughts and comments are more than welcome.
What are you saying, that if someone has a certain amount of BTC it becomes centralized? What exactly do you mean by centralized here?  Sure, there's a number of persons out there that have large holdings, so what. This is a free market and the most fairly distributed crypto. Satoshi himself is thought to hold nearly 1 million coins.  Tim Draper has 30,000 plus coins, and someone else may only have .04, none of those facts centralize Bitcoin. Someone may only have more power to move the market than another but this is still distribution.
Another note, Bitcoin is not anti government. In fact, we need governance as a society and always have. The problem is when the governments no longer represent the peoples interests. Power centralizes and bad shit happens. Look at the USA right now.  They can even go to war with countries that have no intentions of fighting at all and because they print the money, they can do what they want. This is centralization, not Bitcoin. 
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January 08, 2020, 04:00:48 AM
 #4

This is not the true definition of decentralization, having a lot of bitcoin doesn't mean you have control over the network, and this doesn't imply you can effect change on the working principles of the block, you are just lucky to have been an early adopter, and anyone could own volumes of bitcoin if they wish to buy this cheap a price. A time will come when it hits $100k and people will still complain why will someone have so and so volumes of bitcoin, and the simple answer is that no one actually stops them from buying cheap when they had the opportunity.

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January 08, 2020, 04:39:59 AM
 #5

Centralization is a loose term. Some might argue Bitcoin is centralized because most miners are from China, some argue that Bitcoin is centralized because only rich people can mine it, so on and so forth.

You need to be clear with your definition of centralization. Having more Bitcoin than the others might give you more selling pressure but doesn't mean you can simply make and reject any transaction that you wish to stop (which is where the 'decentralization' part comes in).

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January 08, 2020, 04:48:58 AM
Merited by pooya87 (1)
 #6

People having a lot more bitcoin than most of us =/= centralization

Bitcoin isn't a solution for the wealth imbalance. Wealthy people, are going to remain wealthy whether you like it or not. Them having more bitcoin doesn't automatically mean that they have more control over the network. If we're talking about Proof of Stake[1], as with other coins, then sure. But Bitcoin is Proof of Work[2].


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_of_stake
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_of_work

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January 08, 2020, 06:34:48 AM
 #7

Seemingly we still have whales out there hoarding not just 1 5 or 10 bitcoins and its many many forks mind you (free Extra money) but with thousands upon thousands of bitcoins.

lets assume that what you are saying here is correct and whales aren't just accumulating thousands but millions of bitcoin. let me ask you this, is anybody preventing YOU from doing the same? so as long as the answer to that question is a big fat NO then there is no room for you to complain about it either. it is YOUR own choice not to invest in bitcoin with that kind of money so you can't blame others for taking a bigger risk.

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January 08, 2020, 01:17:29 PM
 #8

I think the pints you are making are things that will gradually dissipate over time as Bitcoins are spread to more of the population. Theoretically at some point in the future, there won’t be individuals that hold huge numbers of Bitcoins. However, the same problem is going to happen with any new cryptocurrency. At the beginning there will be a few people that own huge numbers of that coin.

 
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January 08, 2020, 01:27:36 PM
 #9

OP, you should read the answers in this topic: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5209011
The problem is the same: decentralization.

Usually the term decentralization for Bitcoin is related to the number of nodes, not about the centralization of wealth.


Although there are probably many Bitcoin whales, many exchanges' and other service providers' cold wallets may be also mistaken as whales. Also I expect many early fat wallets are actually lost forever. So the problem may be a bit smaller than some think.
Also new bitcoins are mined on the daily basis. If you are concerned about who owns them, go buy as many as you afford (although you should better don't invest more money than you afford to lose).
However, go read some of the answers there. They should be interesting and useful.

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January 08, 2020, 02:20:45 PM
 #10

Well i find it a feasible solution for maybe a store of wealth something like gold in a sense but it's just not feasible for everyday use. I think most people would agree that it's technology nowadays is almost borderline archaic and obsolete. None the less still a fan of the Bitcoin. 9k usd anyone?
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January 08, 2020, 03:10:26 PM
 #11

While most people tend to market bitcoin as being anti centralization, anti govt. so on and so forth, it occurred to me that it might just be centralized too. Seemingly we still have whales out there hoarding not just 1 5 or 10 bitcoins and its many many forks mind you (free Extra money) but with thousands upon thousands of bitcoins. So in all of this it's kind of a scary dilemma. What are you thoughts and comments on this seemingly true fact? Thoughts and comments are more than welcome.
Even though whales control the market it doesn't mean that bitcoin is centralized maybe you can call it manipulated or something. Bitcoin remains decentralized whatever happens. Decentralization that people want from bitcoin is they can store and secure their assets without giving 3rd party access to their money. But if we're talking about the price being controlled or the volatility it could be different than centralization.
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January 08, 2020, 03:14:47 PM
 #12

An important point is that we do not know how many currencies are still in circulation so that there are thousands of Bitcoins produced in the first days and nobody knows about them.

These unknown coins will create a balance and decentralize the cryptosystem.
Also, the awareness of BTC holding using open-source wallets increased, decentralized platforms have evolved, and therefore the risk of central platforms is less severe.

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January 08, 2020, 03:17:47 PM
 #13

If we simply think about centralization itself you will understand that somehow or someway Bitcoin is under control in a different way and it is inevitable to happen. May it be the governments trying to regulate it or the miners trying to control the hashrate or even the whales trying to influence the market Bitcoin itself simply isn't protected from those kinds of threats since BTC as a commodity all has some kind of demand outside the market and that is the demand to control it. We simply can't avoid this things from happening but I'm sure we can limit it.

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January 08, 2020, 03:21:02 PM
 #14

While most people tend to market bitcoin as being anti centralization, anti govt. so on and so forth, it occurred to me that it might just be centralized too. Seemingly we still have whales out there hoarding not just 1 5 or 10 bitcoins and its many many forks mind you (free Extra money) but with thousands upon thousands of bitcoins. So in all of this it's kind of a scary dilemma. What are you thoughts and comments on this seemingly true fact? Thoughts and comments are more than welcome.

Whales holds bigger amount to play with the market, and creates hype in the right time. Their unpredictable mindset is making more crucial to many individuals who've been following cryptocurrency. I don't know with other people who doesn't appreciate cryptocurrency, but for us who's strongly supports the progress, remained faithful with the community.

 
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January 08, 2020, 03:44:30 PM
 #15

While most people tend to market bitcoin as being anti centralization, anti govt. so on and so forth, it occurred to me that it might just be centralized too. Seemingly we still have whales out there hoarding not just 1 5 or 10 bitcoins and its many many forks mind you (free Extra money) but with thousands upon thousands of bitcoins. So in all of this it's kind of a scary dilemma. What are you thoughts and comments on this seemingly true fact? Thoughts and comments are more than welcome.

i do have in my mind that BTC is centralized due to percent of new BTC mined in China, which cannot be seen as good decentralization strategy, from global hash rate, 70% is mined in Sichuan province, which is large percent for me, and I would like to see better global coverage for BTC miners, which is not realistic due to power price and equipment manufacturers, which are mainly based in China...

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January 08, 2020, 03:46:15 PM
 #16

All are possible especially when it comes to technology. I know that there is a way to do that. But is it really advantageous to Bitcoin to be that way or remain Decentralized so that it can function well? Well, I am open for all types of changes but I suggest that there should be a thorough study first before doing that so that it will not be open for abuse by a single entity.
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January 08, 2020, 04:10:37 PM
 #17

While most people tend to market bitcoin as being anti centralization, anti govt. so on and so forth, it occurred to me that it might just be centralized too. Seemingly we still have whales out there hoarding not just 1 5 or 10 bitcoins and its many many forks mind you (free Extra money) but with thousands upon thousands of bitcoins. So in all of this it's kind of a scary dilemma. What are you thoughts and comments on this seemingly true fact? Thoughts and comments are more than welcome.
Larger holdings doesn't mean that the scales are tipped to them. Centralisation means that the currency itself originates and is being regulated by a single entity which in the case of fiats is the central bank of each country. If you are afraid that a certain 1% club exists that manipulate bitcoin's price then let me cast it aside, there are whales indeed but since bitcoin is in itself secure. They can only do so much with the manipulation they are doing.

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January 09, 2020, 01:38:00 PM
 #18

While most people tend to market bitcoin as being anti centralization, anti govt. so on and so forth, it occurred to me that it might just be centralized too. Seemingly we still have whales out there hoarding not just 1 5 or 10 bitcoins and its many many forks mind you (free Extra money) but with thousands upon thousands of bitcoins.
Bitcoin is not centralized, it’s still what it is – decentralized. Just because it is being held by lots of whales doesn’t mean that it has become centralized. The government cannot adopt Bitcoin and that’s because of its decentralized nature, it s not owned by anyone or country and there is no particular control unit. Every country can’t adopt the same currency, so that’s why they are not adopting it.

I think the pints you are making are things that will gradually dissipate over time as Bitcoins are spread to more of the population. Theoretically at some point in the future, there won’t be individuals that hold huge numbers of Bitcoins.
Yep, you’re right as times goes on a lot of people will start to adopt Bitcoin and it will spread out. Though I have also seen people that claims that it’s not going to be like that, rather whales will buy up and hold everything and when the time comes people won’t be able to buy Bitcoin again. That’s all lies, no time is late to buy Bitcoin, people trade bitcoin every minute and no matter the condition, so such is not going to happen.



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January 09, 2020, 01:59:39 PM
 #19

While most people tend to market bitcoin as being anti centralization, anti govt. so on and so forth, it occurred to me that it might just be centralized too. Seemingly we still have whales out there hoarding not just 1 5 or 10 bitcoins and its many many forks mind you (free Extra money) but with thousands upon thousands of bitcoins. So in all of this it's kind of a scary dilemma. What are you thoughts and comments on this seemingly true fact? Thoughts and comments are more than welcome.
Yeah, these whales do manipulate the price. But not always. Market tends to come back to its natural growth and price. They have the Bitcoin in the bulk. But do mind it, there are many such whales. You can lose money in trade if the manipulation isn't followed by the people. So, you can't always do that. If there is a trend, you can only intensify it unless and until there's a cartel of all the whales. So rest assured, I won't term Bitcoin as centralized for that.

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January 09, 2020, 02:00:58 PM
Last edit: January 09, 2020, 05:01:52 PM by ChrisPop
 #20

There will always be poor, rich and ultra rich people no matter what currency are we going to use. However decentralization in Bitcoin is about not being controlled by a central entity. For example the Feds can increase the supply of US Dollar indefinitely. Also they control how much liquidity is poured into the market, etc.

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