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Author Topic: Suggestion: Reduce 50 merit limit per post.  (Read 540 times)
The-One-Above-All
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January 08, 2020, 06:05:53 PM
 #21

I think it's okay to merit someone with 50 merits, as long as it is a good post or reply. I agree with you that there's a thousand of good-post, but as long as you are meriting good-post regardless of the amount, I think it's okay.

Yeah also i agree with @Yatsan, giving 50 merit in single time for unuseful thread/post its not fair and prohibited. But, if the thread or post have a excellent or good value , informative and meaningful its deserved to get 50 merit. Don't worry about somebody would do abuse, selling or trading their merits. I see there are so many people have good analysis and statistic about this forum. They can knowing the suspicious account who played about the merits and then solved it.  

Stop looking for non-existing abuse, when you pay more attention to the user rather than the single post that got merited, It becomes more understandable the probable reason behind the stack of merits (most times).

Most times it seems rather absurd to see a post get 50 merits when obviously the post doesn't deserve it. It is glaringly a case of merit abuse most times but then that isn't often difficult too detect. However, I've seen cases where a merit source or someone gives 50 merits at a go, not because the post is as such worthy (almost no post is worth that) but rather because the users contribution overtime is under merited. I'd rather give 50 merits to a single post of user that has contributed a lot (IMO) than spread it over 50 posts of the same user all in the name of justification.


Well that's the point. Reduce the ABUSE.  Well that is lazy isn't it. Each POST should be evaluated and merited not just rely on your memory of contributions here and there and some random 50 slapped down. Reduces the value and accuracy. Of course there is no value nor accuracy but that's not to say we should deliberately make it worse.

Try reading our above post and understanding that until you can debunk those points that your opposing points are net negative. Pick the points in our post that you disagree with and pull them apart.

Reduce it to 3 at a max, good, excellent , truly outstanding and original.

I mean look what tman is claiming, it is truly funny, although he obviously does not even have the capacity to understand or evaluate and attempt to debunk the undeniable points we have made. It is quite funny how we use him as an illustration of the pure stupidity of the merit system. He is the most useful idiot here except xtraelv.

25 is no good, still huge subjectivity and gaming available, 1 -3 with some sensible identifiable criteria. max 1% of your merits to a single member in 365 days if source.





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January 08, 2020, 06:12:18 PM
Last edit: January 09, 2020, 02:27:17 AM by tranthidung
Merited by hosseinimr93 (1)
 #22

From stats, I don't see serious thing with 50-merit transactions!
On the one hand, they (in number of transactions) account for about 0.11% (includes theymos' transactions) or 0.08% (excludes theymos' transactions) of all merit transactions.

On the other hand, in values of transactions, they account for about 3% (includes theymos' transaction values) and 2% (excludes theymos' transaction values).

Why are we so serious about it?


Over the period from 2018 to 2020 (a few days of this year), we have 284993 merit transactions, in total. It seems there is a half-split between 2018 and 2019, it is good.
Code:
      year |      Freq.     Percent        Cum.
------------+-----------------------------------
       2018 |    138,703       48.67       48.67
       2019 |    145,301       50.98       99.65
       2020 |        989        0.35      100.00
------------+-----------------------------------
      Total |    284,993      100.00


Now, drop the year 2018, and let's how merit transactions distributed.
Period: 01/01/2019 to 03/01/2020.

In terms of number of transactions, theymos' transactions (received and gave away) account for 1.6%.
Code:
   theymos |      Freq.     Percent        Cum.
------------+-----------------------------------
         no |    143,993       98.43       98.43
        yes |      2,297        1.57      100.00
------------+-----------------------------------
      Total |    146,290      100.00
However, theymos' merit transactions dominate in the value of 50, his transactions account for 31.9% (53 transactions per 166 transactions with 50 merits for each in that period).

Categorisation merit transactions into groups:
With theymos' transactions included:
Code:
 merit_cat |      Freq.     Percent        Cum.
------------+-----------------------------------
         <0 |         16        0.01        0.01
          1 |    102,226       69.88       69.89
          2 |     22,690       15.51       85.40
      3 - 9 |     18,911       12.93       98.33
         10 |      1,409        0.96       99.29
    11 - 19 |        412        0.28       99.57
         20 |        164        0.11       99.68
    21 - 24 |         40        0.03       99.71
         25 |         74        0.05       99.76
    26 - 29 |         30        0.02       99.78
         30 |         45        0.03       99.81
    31 - 49 |        107        0.07       99.89
         50 |        166        0.11      100.00
------------+-----------------------------------
      Total |    146,290      100.00

With theymos' transactions excluded
Code:
 merit_cat |      Freq.     Percent        Cum.
------------+-----------------------------------
         <0 |         16        0.01        0.01
          1 |    101,257       70.32       70.33
          2 |     22,341       15.52       85.85
      3 - 9 |     18,382       12.77       98.61
         10 |      1,274        0.88       99.50
    11 - 19 |        297        0.21       99.70
         20 |        133        0.09       99.80
    21 - 24 |         31        0.02       99.82
         25 |         44        0.03       99.85
    26 - 29 |         25        0.02       99.87
         30 |         28        0.02       99.89
    31 - 49 |         52        0.04       99.92
         50 |        113        0.08      100.00
------------+-----------------------------------
      Total |    143,993      100.00

All of above are for number of transactions, now let's move on with values of transactions, over categories. In total of values, we have 268283 merits distributed in that period (from 17/10/2019 to 2/12/2019, with somewhat delayed effects too).
Code:
   +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
     | merit_cat    total   total_cat   p_meritcat   total_count   meritcat_count   p_count |
     |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  1. |        <0   268283        -104            0        146290               16         0 |
  2. |         1   268283      102226         38.1        146290           102226      69.9 |
  3. |         2   268283       45380         16.9        146290            22690      15.5 |
  4. |     3 - 9   268283       80078         29.8        146290            18911      12.9 |
  5. |        10   268283       14090          5.3        146290             1409         1 |
     |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  6. |   11 - 19   268283        5912          2.2        146290              412        .3 |
  7. |        20   268283        3280          1.2        146290              164        .1 |
  8. |   21 - 24   268283         892           .3        146290               40         0 |
  9. |        25   268283        1850           .7        146290               74        .1 |
 10. |   26 - 29   268283         825           .3        146290               30         0 |
     |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
 11. |        30   268283        1350           .5        146290               45         0 |
 12. |   31 - 49   268283        4204          1.6        146290              107        .1 |
 13. |        50   268283        8300          3.1        146290              166        .1 |
     +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Sorting them out, descendingly based on p_meritcat. The group for 50-merit-per-transaction is ranked at the 5th position, with only 3.1%.
Code:
    +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
     | merit_cat    total   total_cat   p_meritcat   total_count   meritcat_count   p_count |
     |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  1. |         1   268283      102226         38.1        146290           102226      69.9 |
  2. |     3 - 9   268283       80078         29.8        146290            18911      12.9 |
  3. |         2   268283       45380         16.9        146290            22690      15.5 |
  4. |        10   268283       14090          5.3        146290             1409         1 |
  5. |        50   268283        8300          3.1        146290              166        .1 |
     |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  6. |   11 - 19   268283        5912          2.2        146290              412        .3 |
  7. |   31 - 49   268283        4204          1.6        146290              107        .1 |
  8. |        20   268283        3280          1.2        146290              164        .1 |
  9. |        25   268283        1850           .7        146290               74        .1 |
 10. |        30   268283        1350           .5        146290               45         0 |
     |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
 11. |   26 - 29   268283         825           .3        146290               30         0 |
 12. |   21 - 24   268283         892           .3        146290               40         0 |
 13. |        <0   268283        -104            0        146290               16         0 |
     +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Lastly, let's take a look at 50-merit transactions over months. Looking at them (by months), we clearly see the domination of months when Art Contest for the 10th anniversary happened.
Code:
       +---------------------------------------+
        |          forumtime     month   amount |
        |---------------------------------------|
  3159. | 27dec2019 21:48:43   2019m12       50 |
  3160. | 27dec2019 21:46:42   2019m12       50 |
  6962. | 20dec2019 13:42:16   2019m12       50 |
        |---------------------------------------|
 18505. | 25nov2019 17:17:03   2019m11       50 |
 19604. | 23nov2019 19:54:30   2019m11       50 |
 19939. | 23nov2019 12:09:31   2019m11       50 |
 20447. | 22nov2019 21:44:37   2019m11       50 |
 20493. | 22nov2019 20:38:25   2019m11       50 |
 20594. | 22nov2019 19:55:44   2019m11       50 |
 20882. | 22nov2019 17:38:02   2019m11       50 |
 21566. | 22nov2019 09:14:01   2019m11       50 |
 21776. | 22nov2019 05:39:11   2019m11       50 |
 21792. | 22nov2019 05:29:16   2019m11       50 |
 21810. | 22nov2019 05:13:57   2019m11       50 |
 21826. | 22nov2019 05:05:19   2019m11       50 |
 22852. | 21nov2019 06:17:52   2019m11       50 |
 22921. | 21nov2019 05:32:00   2019m11       50 |
 22997. | 21nov2019 04:33:25   2019m11       50 |
 22999. | 21nov2019 04:31:49   2019m11       50 |
 23005. | 21nov2019 04:27:30   2019m11       50 |
 23028. | 21nov2019 04:17:14   2019m11       50 |
 23051. | 21nov2019 04:03:02   2019m11       50 |
 23080. | 21nov2019 03:23:40   2019m11       50 |
 23083. | 21nov2019 03:21:47   2019m11       50 |
 23122. | 21nov2019 02:21:40   2019m11       50 |
 23124. | 21nov2019 02:17:13   2019m11       50 |
 23161. | 21nov2019 01:36:14   2019m11       50 |
 23188. | 21nov2019 01:13:42   2019m11       50 |
 23191. | 21nov2019 01:11:23   2019m11       50 |
 23218. | 21nov2019 00:37:42   2019m11       50 |
 23222. | 21nov2019 00:31:38   2019m11       50 |
 23268. | 20nov2019 22:48:14   2019m11       50 |
 23292. | 20nov2019 22:20:02   2019m11       50 |
 23305. | 20nov2019 22:07:20   2019m11       50 |
 23368. | 20nov2019 21:02:17   2019m11       50 |
 24776. | 19nov2019 04:31:24   2019m11       50 |
 24781. | 19nov2019 04:27:32   2019m11       50 |
 24804. | 19nov2019 04:02:52   2019m11       50 |
 24867. | 19nov2019 03:20:33   2019m11       50 |
 24950. | 19nov2019 02:20:35   2019m11       50 |
 24966. | 19nov2019 02:06:04   2019m11       50 |
 24977. | 19nov2019 01:53:41   2019m11       50 |
 25019. | 19nov2019 01:23:58   2019m11       50 |
 25049. | 19nov2019 00:56:05   2019m11       50 |
 25247. | 18nov2019 20:28:09   2019m11       50 |
 25291. | 18nov2019 19:53:04   2019m11       50 |
 25314. | 18nov2019 19:33:10   2019m11       50 |
 25326. | 18nov2019 19:26:16   2019m11       50 |
 26332. | 17nov2019 14:12:21   2019m11       50 |
 26479. | 17nov2019 07:36:47   2019m11       50 |
 27604. | 15nov2019 18:52:16   2019m11       50 |
 28071. | 15nov2019 11:51:14   2019m11       50 |
 29280. | 14nov2019 00:31:46   2019m11       50 |
 30494. | 10nov2019 21:07:57   2019m11       50 |
 32119. | 06nov2019 21:20:09   2019m11       50 |
 32124. | 06nov2019 21:17:03   2019m11       50 |
 33568. | 02nov2019 18:50:30   2019m11       50 |
        |---------------------------------------|
 34503. | 31oct2019 13:33:42   2019m10       50 |
 35094. | 30oct2019 01:00:31   2019m10       50 |
 35277. | 29oct2019 14:40:43   2019m10       50 |
 36074. | 27oct2019 14:50:15   2019m10       50 |
 37511. | 23oct2019 23:06:06   2019m10       50 |
 37990. | 22oct2019 21:14:32   2019m10       50 |
 38013. | 22oct2019 20:44:16   2019m10       50 |
 38015. | 22oct2019 20:42:13   2019m10       50 |
 39240. | 20oct2019 07:32:46   2019m10       50 |
 39341. | 19oct2019 22:48:31   2019m10       50 |
 40233. | 18oct2019 02:27:50   2019m10       50 |
 41057. | 15oct2019 17:39:38   2019m10       50 |
 42329. | 12oct2019 00:08:40   2019m10       50 |
 42875. | 10oct2019 12:45:12   2019m10       50 |
 42878. | 10oct2019 12:42:06   2019m10       50 |
 42879. | 10oct2019 12:38:53   2019m10       50 |
 43356. | 09oct2019 01:38:25   2019m10       50 |
 43599. | 08oct2019 13:54:46   2019m10       50 |
 46166. | 01oct2019 02:10:14   2019m10       50 |
        |---------------------------------------|
 48027. | 25sep2019 23:29:15    2019m9       50 |
 48277. | 25sep2019 09:32:03    2019m9       50 |
 49874. | 21sep2019 01:02:04    2019m9       50 |
 50398. | 19sep2019 16:10:22    2019m9       50 |
 52452. | 13sep2019 12:29:47    2019m9       50 |
 52649. | 12sep2019 21:15:34    2019m9       50 |
        |---------------------------------------|
 57764. | 28aug2019 08:27:47    2019m8       50 |
 57791. | 28aug2019 06:53:20    2019m8       50 |
 59213. | 23aug2019 13:42:35    2019m8       50 |
 64563. | 06aug2019 13:08:33    2019m8       50 |
 65531. | 02aug2019 19:55:02    2019m8       50 |
        |---------------------------------------|
 66458. | 31jul2019 03:33:16    2019m7       50 |
 67163. | 29jul2019 05:48:54    2019m7       50 |
 67819. | 27jul2019 08:39:54    2019m7       50 |
 69149. | 23jul2019 14:14:28    2019m7       50 |
 70898. | 18jul2019 20:53:05    2019m7       50 |
 73451. | 11jul2019 14:46:52    2019m7       50 |
 74257. | 09jul2019 13:55:01    2019m7       50 |
 74346. | 09jul2019 07:58:37    2019m7       50 |
 75955. | 04jul2019 06:36:47    2019m7       50 |
        |---------------------------------------|
 78687. | 26jun2019 17:07:02    2019m6       50 |
 78744. | 26jun2019 13:30:53    2019m6       50 |
 79523. | 24jun2019 22:09:01    2019m6       50 |
 79778. | 24jun2019 00:32:08    2019m6       50 |
 82529. | 16jun2019 22:16:27    2019m6       50 |
 82636. | 16jun2019 17:58:44    2019m6       50 |
 84216. | 12jun2019 20:32:22    2019m6       50 |
 84217. | 12jun2019 20:30:56    2019m6       50 |
 84941. | 11jun2019 12:40:21    2019m6       50 |
 87169. | 05jun2019 02:41:20    2019m6       50 |
 88080. | 02jun2019 13:44:31    2019m6       50 |
        |---------------------------------------|
 95755. | 14may2019 20:12:19    2019m5       50 |
 95767. | 14may2019 19:52:46    2019m5       50 |
 95768. | 14may2019 19:50:36    2019m5       50 |
 95778. | 14may2019 19:37:20    2019m5       50 |
 95783. | 14may2019 19:14:10    2019m5       50 |
 96975. | 11may2019 20:25:42    2019m5       50 |
 98401. | 08may2019 18:50:06    2019m5       50 |
 99444. | 06may2019 06:13:25    2019m5       50 |
 99693. | 05may2019 14:39:17    2019m5       50 |
 99833. | 05may2019 00:28:06    2019m5       50 |
        |---------------------------------------|
101814. | 29apr2019 16:04:58    2019m4       50 |
102484. | 27apr2019 13:07:10    2019m4       50 |
102999. | 26apr2019 04:00:06    2019m4       50 |
105012. | 20apr2019 08:40:42    2019m4       50 |
105476. | 19apr2019 03:18:43    2019m4       50 |
109931. | 08apr2019 07:00:24    2019m4       50 |
110004. | 07apr2019 23:58:43    2019m4       50 |
110138. | 07apr2019 15:25:42    2019m4       50 |
110148. | 07apr2019 15:09:39    2019m4       50 |
110974. | 04apr2019 16:59:11    2019m4       50 |
112084. | 02apr2019 01:03:58    2019m4       50 |
112153. | 01apr2019 21:24:24    2019m4       50 |
        |---------------------------------------|
113500. | 29mar2019 17:56:37    2019m3       50 |
113546. | 29mar2019 15:55:03    2019m3       50 |
114049. | 28mar2019 15:49:12    2019m3       50 |
114417. | 28mar2019 00:10:27    2019m3       50 |
114419. | 28mar2019 00:08:16    2019m3       50 |
114619. | 27mar2019 12:54:35    2019m3       50 |
114622. | 27mar2019 12:32:26    2019m3       50 |
115910. | 23mar2019 18:11:58    2019m3       50 |
118920. | 15mar2019 08:14:56    2019m3       50 |
119627. | 13mar2019 14:28:10    2019m3       50 |
120255. | 11mar2019 19:40:31    2019m3       50 |
120705. | 10mar2019 17:27:16    2019m3       50 |
120991. | 09mar2019 19:31:36    2019m3       50 |
121604. | 08mar2019 06:32:55    2019m3       50 |
122335. | 06mar2019 11:26:49    2019m3       50 |
123198. | 04mar2019 09:16:06    2019m3       50 |
123611. | 02mar2019 16:10:40    2019m3       50 |
123963. | 01mar2019 10:31:21    2019m3       50 |
        |---------------------------------------|
124648. | 27feb2019 10:34:27    2019m2       50 |
125194. | 26feb2019 00:07:48    2019m2       50 |
125213. | 25feb2019 23:11:27    2019m2       50 |
126556. | 21feb2019 21:22:20    2019m2       50 |
132335. | 05feb2019 21:12:33    2019m2       50 |
132336. | 05feb2019 21:11:52    2019m2       50 |
        |---------------------------------------|
135055. | 29jan2019 21:21:03    2019m1       50 |
140655. | 15jan2019 14:53:57    2019m1       50 |
141011. | 14jan2019 20:49:19    2019m1       50 |
141765. | 13jan2019 02:26:28    2019m1       50 |
141830. | 12jan2019 20:18:58    2019m1       50 |
142185. | 11jan2019 22:45:06    2019m1       50 |
143105. | 10jan2019 03:41:10    2019m1       50 |
143447. | 09jan2019 08:01:42    2019m1       50 |
144788. | 05jan2019 21:39:49    2019m1       50 |
144789. | 05jan2019 21:37:17    2019m1       50 |
144944. | 05jan2019 15:19:23    2019m1       50 |
145903. | 02jan2019 17:53:20    2019m1       50 |
        +---------------------------------------+

With the same formula above, but dropping theymos from the dataset, we have the 50-merit transaction group is ranked at 5th position, with 2.2% of total merit values (significantly decreased from 3.1% with full dataset).
Code:
    +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
     | merit_cat    total   total_cat   p_meritcat   total_count   meritcat_count   p_count |
     |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  1. |         1   254141      101257         39.8        143993           101257      70.3 |
  2. |     3 - 9   254141       77630         30.5        143993            18382      12.8 |
  3. |         2   254141       44682         17.6        143993            22341      15.5 |
  4. |        10   254141       12740            5        143993             1274        .9 |
  5. |        50   254141        5650          2.2        143993              113        .1 |
     |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  6. |   11 - 19   254141        4262          1.7        143993              297        .2 |
  7. |        20   254141        2660            1        143993              133        .1 |
  8. |   31 - 49   254141        2047           .8        143993               52         0 |
  9. |        25   254141        1100           .4        143993               44         0 |
 10. |        30   254141         840           .3        143993               28         0 |
     |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
 11. |   21 - 24   254141         688           .3        143993               31         0 |
 12. |   26 - 29   254141         689           .3        143993               25         0 |
 13. |        <0   254141        -104            0        143993               16         0 |
     +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Additional details, see: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5215884.msg53557181#msg53557181




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January 08, 2020, 06:19:39 PM
 #23

Should put a lifetime limit on how many merit any user can receive from another also. 50 is probably a good number for that.

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January 08, 2020, 06:20:32 PM
 #24

A post which few people gave 1 - 2 merits and one guy gave 50 is very unbalanced. No post deserve all that in a single transaction.

I disagree, there are few cases where the posts deserve it. Example :
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4980960.msg44928914#msg44928914

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January 08, 2020, 06:28:16 PM
Merited by bitmover (1)
 #25

Should put a lifetime limit on how many merit any user can receive from another also. 50 is probably a good number for that.
That would mean I can no longer send Merit to some of the best posts I read, including theymos' posts.

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January 08, 2020, 06:39:06 PM
Last edit: January 08, 2020, 08:37:26 PM by The-One-Above-All
 #26

Should put a lifetime limit on how many merit any user can receive from another also. 50 is probably a good number for that.
That would mean I can no longer send Merit to some of the best posts I read, including theymos' posts.

What difference would that make to how the forum benefits (really) from merit.

Theymos? is that a special case? does he not have quite a few merits and is a legend? He probably cares not for your evaluation of his posts or the merit. What good does merit do him? save for others. He wants it to be widely used so his systems have some chance to start operating a little more sensibly.

Start looking around the forum more for posts that merit should and needs to be applied to so to ensure fair and equal treatment and opportunities for all members here, or don't your call.

50 a lifetime is perhaps a bit restrictive, but then you only need 20 ppl from the ENTIRE FORUM to start thinking you are a good poster to make you hit legendary. Does not seem impossible.

Better to still slow it down with 1% per year per member and max 15 per year.

There are FAR more benefits than negatives if you understand how the implications of this system. That is asking a lot in your case robovac. PLUS you are one of the key beneficiaries from leaving the status quo as it is.... I mean the fact you have so many merits is evidence alone the merit system is not a meritocracy when you note how little merit some super smart legends have earned.

As we have said though whilst merit has ANY other benefit other than merit score (that has no implications) merit will always be about OTHER things rather than just post value.







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January 08, 2020, 06:51:19 PM
Merited by YOSHIE (1)
 #27

I think a few months ago admin is asked merit sources to pay more attention to lower ranks, and I noticed in my example that some MS no longer merit my posts, although I do not think the quality of my posts has changed in a negative way.
If lower ranks tend to make good posts which are worth reading they would be merited even how less the source merits are allocated but on the other side if the lower ranks tend to shitpost here for the purpose of their signature post count or ranking up, they would remain as the lower ranks even if higher the merits are allocated to the merit sources. If the latter tends to happen, merits would most probably be dumped upon some of the higher rank merit worthy posters to empty up the source merits. If you learn something about bitcoin and try to contribute for the betterment of this forum, I don't think someone would face the difficulty in ranking up.

Merits are meant to be awarded for quality posts and we really don't need a rank or a popular forum username to receive that. If the lower rank tend to post something meaningful even if that falls in the repeated answer criteria, I would merit the post. Those users might become some of the promising posters in a longer run if they really got to know more about the forum workings. If it happens to be the other way like begging for merits without posting anything meaningful I wouldn't merit them.




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January 08, 2020, 07:31:08 PM
 #28

From stats, I don't see serious thing with 50-merit transactions!
They account for about 3% (includes theymos' transactions) or 2% (excludes theymos' transactions) of all merit transactions. Why are we so serious about it?
Yes, that doesn't matter.
What is currently troubled by many members here is a decent post or topic that really deserves 50 Merit, not a 3% percentage.

Example: You waste time and thought, energy to make statistics on the Bitcointalk community almost every day.
Why you don't deserve 50-100 Merit, that's the question right now.

For example again, the account mentioned by @ETFbitcoin, johank, after spending 125 Merit, the account is no longer used, this also happens to this account, madu

However, in this situation there are pros and cons to the situation and the giving of sMerit happens ... "no one forbids" is permitted, ... but all of that is really feasible and makes sense given [sMerit].

Cases like this that are currently being hotly discussed in the forum the past few days...

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January 08, 2020, 08:51:35 PM
 #29

From stats, I don't see serious thing with 50-merit transactions!
They account for about 3% (includes theymos' transactions) or 2% (excludes theymos' transactions) of all merit transactions. Why are we so serious about it?

It is curious how people make different analysis in the same data.
I thought 50 merit transactions were almost insignificant.  However 3% of all merit transactions is way a lot more than I expected

Your stats makes the limitation more urgent.  3% is a lot.

Just calculate how much merit are we talking about. Thousands and thousands of merits to post which didnt deserve  not even 1/20 of it. Mostly abuses, laziness, selling, etc...

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January 08, 2020, 09:19:16 PM
Merited by tranthidung (1)
 #30

It is curious how people make different analysis in the same data.
I thought 50 merit transactions were almost insignificant.  However 3% of all merit transactions is way a lot more than I expected
That's not 3% of all merit transactions. I guess tranthidung meant 3% of all merits.

According to tranthidung's data there have been totally 146290 merit transactions. The number of 50 merit transactions is 166 which is only 0.11% of all transactions.
Also note that many of these transactions were done in the art contest.

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January 09, 2020, 12:36:31 AM
 #31

@bitmover, what number of merits would be optimal in your opinion? I think you have good arguments with this suggestion, but I'm not sure that this limit should be reduced. 50 merit transactions is rare things and there is only few users who send 50 merits sometimes. As TMAN said, he is lazy source, so maybe it's better that one user would get these 50 merits, than nobody would get it. But probably situation isn't fair. And about earning merits, I agree, I've see many times great posts, which required lot of effort getting just 2-3 merit. Obviously, it's not e.nough.




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January 09, 2020, 01:36:05 AM
Last edit: January 10, 2020, 01:36:53 AM by tranthidung
 #32

It is curious how people make different analysis in the same data.
It's easy. There are two ways to do that:
  • Replacing all transactions relate to theymos as missing values, that treated as zero or not-counted when making sum of transaction values as well as count of number of transactions.
  • Dropping all transactions relate to theymos from the initial dataset.

That's not 3% of all merit transactions. I guess tranthidung meant 3% of all merits.
You are right. In my initial post, 3% and 2% are for frequency or number of 50-merit transactions per total number of transactions made in the same period.

I forgot to make a note on that, to differentiate between percent for number of transactions and values of transactions. Edited that post today, please check.
Quote
According to tranthidung's data there have been totally 146290 merit transactions. The number of 50 merit transactions is 166 which is only 0.11% of all transactions.
Excluding all of theymos' transactions (excludes his 50-merit transactions - of course), the percent of such transactions falls to 0.08%.
Quote
Also note that many of these transactions were done in the art contest.
The Art Contest initially opened on 17th October 2019 and ended on 2nd December 2019. Let's assume all 50-merit transactions in that period are all from the Art Contest (they actually came from threads beyond the Art contest), then dropped all of those 50-merit ones in that period.

Results (Without the assumed-Art-contest-related transactions)

50-merit transactions account for 1.9% (in values - p_meritcat) or 0.1% (in number of transactions - p_count). Not all transactions within the Art contest excluded, I only did it for 50-merit transactions in that period.
Code:
    +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
     | merit_cat    total   total_cat   p_meritcat   total_count   meritcat_count   p_count |
     |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  1. |         1   253341      101257           40        143977           101257      70.3 |
  2. |     3 - 9   253341       77630         30.6        143977            18382      12.8 |
  3. |         2   253341       44682         17.6        143977            22341      15.5 |
  4. |        10   253341       12740            5        143977             1274        .9 |
  5. |        50   253341        4850          1.9        143977               97        .1 |
     |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  6. |   11 - 19   253341        4262          1.7        143977              297        .2 |
  7. |        20   253341        2660            1        143977              133        .1 |
  8. |   31 - 49   253341        2047           .8        143977               52         0 |
  9. |        25   253341        1100           .4        143977               44         0 |
 10. |   21 - 24   253341         688           .3        143977               31         0 |
     |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
 11. |        30   253341         840           .3        143977               28         0 |
 12. |   26 - 29   253341         689           .3        143977               25         0 |
 13. |        <0   253341        -104            0        143977               16         0 |
     +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+

Example: You waste time and thought, energy to make statistics on the Bitcointalk community almost every day.
Why you don't deserve 50-100 Merit, that's the question right now.
It does not matter with me, honestly. I am sad a little but truly said, it does not a big issue. I do this because I love stats. Merits come, good. Merits don't come, not too bad.

There are some potential explanations for this (about my threads):
  • Boring, with figures and charts.
  • Contains some difficult statistical words (for someone who don't know such terms, and who use English as a second language. They don't know what are median and interquartile range, ie.)
  • Repeat what the others do without any additional interesting points (fortunately, I always tried to put additional things, that I though helpful).
  • My current merit record: Maybe. I received lots of merits for my threads weeks ago but it has been slow down when my total merit point crossed 1000. Who knows?
Quote
For example again, the account mentioned by @ETFbitcoin, johank, after spending 125 Merit, the account is no longer used, this also happens to this account, madu
I don't go in-depth with these cases, but basically meriters can not control the future activities of receivers.

If you keep your mind as freshy as possible and look at the page: Top senders to permanbanned users, last 180 days. Who is on the top? theymos.
So, what's wrong with theymos? Has he abused the merit system by sending merits to 105 users who were permanbanned later?




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January 09, 2020, 09:47:59 AM
 #33

Oh boy! this is a tricky one... There is no one right answer to this one I believe but what I can say for certain is there is a right way to do things and then there are not so right ways... E.g would a moderator be considered a good moderator if they "CTRL + A" + "Del" all the reports? Sure they are doing their job but is it fair to all the other moderators who go through each and every report individually?... Logic would dictate the answer is No! It will only ruin the moderation in the long run, more moderators will feel like doing the same as apparently it isn't the "wrong" way to do things... The posts which didn't deserve deletion will get deleted... In merit's case, people will get way more merit than they originally deserved... Making the system fail in the long run... But then again we should have a "CTRL + A" + "Del" feature in place because some times shit hits the fan and it is just required... Some posts do deserve dumps but this behaviour, in my opinion, shouldn't be promoted and should be frowned upon... If TMAN is lazy or can't find the time to spend his allocated sMerits then maybe they can ask theymos to reduce their allocated amount per month. Simply put don't bite off more than you can chew... It will hurt the system in the long run that's all...

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January 09, 2020, 11:16:00 AM
 #34

For example again, the account mentioned by @ETFbitcoin, johank, after spending 125 Merit, the account is no longer used, this also happens to this account, madu

Since you mention me, i wonder what is your point (did i miss something obvious?)

Those members definitely deserve such amount of merits and it doesn't matter whether they use their sMerit/not or no longer active in this forum.

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January 09, 2020, 01:45:14 PM
 #35

I see some reasoning in what you have just said and if theymos after investigating sees that, this (50 smerit sending stuff) is getting abused then he should do what's best for the system. If I'm not mistaking, I have only received 50 merit ones per transaction and obviously it has to be from TMAN's generosity. Reducing the maximum smerit sending amount won't stop the abuse of the system. I see more advantage than disadvantage. We have users that spend countless minutes constructively informative threads and quality replies yet they go unnoticed and ones in a blue moon them getting a boost of 50 merit isn't that bad especially when they do deserve it.

The way this merit of a thing works, if your works (posts) aren't visible to a large audience with smerits and they're willing to spend, your chances of getting merited is reduced especially from more individuals therefore if someone with abundant smerit comes across your work and he/she is willing to merit you in large amount then they should be free to do so provided your post is worthy of been merited or you deserve a boost due to your previous works that must have gone unnoticed.

Merit wasn't introduced to denial quality users an opportunity to rank up, especially those who aren't as visible as the reputed users. Understandable the 50smerit per transaction isn't much of a regular occurrences for users receiving it genuinely. Therefore I won't mind meriting someone that amount if I see a user that obviously have be neglected due to his/her works not getting the visibility needed to receive merit from meriters.

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January 09, 2020, 02:36:44 PM
 #36


That's not 3% of all merit transactions. I guess tranthidung meant 3% of all merits.

I know, I understand that. And it is still A LOT.

3% of my total merit is about 36 merits.  Imo this is a lot, and not easy to get.
3% of 10000 is 300 and so on. This is a lot.

Excluding theymos' 50-merit transactions, the percent of such transactions falls to 0.08%.

so 0.08% transactions are consuming 2% of the total merit. 2% is a lot. Post the stats os the total merited sent in 50 merit transactions. I don't how much it will be, but it is certainly a lot. 5k merit? 10k merit? Is it still not relevant now?

Now look at the stats of the 50 merits transaction on each user total merit balance. If a guy who received a transaction of 50 merit, and that represents 70% of his total earned merit, do you still think that is not relevant?

The issue is that if it’s reduced to 25 then we will have the same threads popping up moaning about 25 merit handouts as lazy fucks like me prefer to hand out all my sauce than have it disappear. Remember we will always have the moaning forks like TOAA and the pajeet bounty hunters who can’t earn 19 merits in 5 years #meritbrokemylife
But the distortion of handing over 25 merits is a lot smaller. 25 merit for a post from the same user makes much more sense.

I understand you want to overmerit one post because you feel lazy, when you believe that user is a good poster and deserve to earn more merits. But you can just find 3 or 4 good posts and merit 10 each, makes much more sense. While doing so, you may even find that those posts are not that good.

I believe most people who replied this thread are good posters. Lets just go handing over 50 merit to everyone? I believe this is not the correct usage of the merit system.

I just think that 50 merit transactions are doing more distortion than good.

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January 09, 2020, 02:48:26 PM
Last edit: January 10, 2020, 01:19:41 AM by tranthidung
 #37

so 0.08% transactions are consuming 2% of the total merit. 2% is a lot. Post the stats os the total merited sent in 50 merit transactions. I don't how much it will be, but it is certainly a lot. 5k merit? 10k merit? Is it still not relevant now?

Now look at the stats of the 50 merits transaction on each user total merit balance. If a guy who received a transaction of 50 merit, and that represents 70% of his total earned merit, do you still think that is not relevant?
Excludes all of theymos' transactions (excludes his 50-merit transactions, of course) + excludes 50 merit transactions of the others within the active period of the Art contest, we have 97 ones, that have sum of total merit values up to 4850 merits (see total_cat). The tptal amount of merits account for 1.9% (see p_meritcat) of total values of all merits (at 253341 - see total). In frequency (or also called as number of transactions), there are 97 transactions left (see meritcat_count), which account for 0.1 % (see at p_count) of 143977 number of transactions in total (see total_count). For data interpretation, I have no additional comment.  Smiley
Code:
    +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
     | merit_cat    total   total_cat   p_meritcat   total_count   meritcat_count   p_count |
     |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  1. |         1   253341      101257           40        143977           101257      70.3 |
  2. |     3 - 9   253341       77630         30.6        143977            18382      12.8 |
  3. |         2   253341       44682         17.6        143977            22341      15.5 |
  4. |        10   253341       12740            5        143977             1274        .9 |
  5. |        50   253341        4850          1.9        143977               97        .1 |
     |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  6. |   11 - 19   253341        4262          1.7        143977              297        .2 |
  7. |        20   253341        2660            1        143977              133        .1 |
  8. |   31 - 49   253341        2047           .8        143977               52         0 |
  9. |        25   253341        1100           .4        143977               44         0 |
 10. |   21 - 24   253341         688           .3        143977               31         0 |
     |--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
 11. |        30   253341         840           .3        143977               28         0 |
 12. |   26 - 29   253341         689           .3        143977               25         0 |
 13. |        <0   253341        -104            0        143977               16         0 |
     +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------+




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January 10, 2020, 12:07:49 AM
 #38

I don’t give out 50 or didn’t do that yet, though it’s a reasonable Nr under right circumstances...

For example I think Lambie slayer is a decent/good poster, not yet hero member, and a person spending merit properly when earned.

So let’s say he has a few posts good ones and he gets rewarded 50 from a source what’s wrong? That person can get ranked up (or have some help), he re sent to a wider range of other users ...

Maybe a source has some days he can’t really be online and chose to give such members a boost for same reasons and not letting merit go to waste....

Most important is also its not happening frequently to same user etc ....
As long there is no abuse then there are not to many problems I would think, I don’t hand out 50’s but most sources used different approaches of using there sources and that’s actually a good thing.

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January 10, 2020, 01:23:33 AM
 #39

Mmmm 97 transactions now who received them  Tongue
For the past receivers, I don't comment, but for the next one, I believe that nullius will be the next one. He came back after 2 years.
Forking hell that is impressive dude - 1K merits with under 200 posts!

i'm out of merits otherwise I would give you 50 just to piss some people off




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