Let's make mining sustainable

[fiulpro]

Hey
We all know how the year had been , unfortunately we have seen worst case of bush fire in Amazon , in Australia , environment is changing drastically , not so long enough we used to have snow here and now it's already January , no sign of snow ...
In certain places where it was supposed to be winter , it's raining there tremendously and it's something that am seeing from my own eyes.
I think this 2020 we should focus on reducing the carbon footprint of bitcoins , reduce the energy minning takes ND the pollution it generates .
Hopefully the community will come forward and the creators will also look out for this .
If you are in the IT sector please spare some time and brains for this problem and try finding a way out .

P.S. people please understand that I do not mean they cause bush fires !! It's all about environment change

[1715206631]

1715206631

[1715206631]

1715206631

[Stalker22]

<cut>
If you are in the IT sector please spare some time and brains for this problem and try finding a way out .

I'm afraid the problem is much more complicated than you think. In general, I positively welcome your position on this but I think that people who make decisions won't do anything about that right now. There will certainly be more effective ways of mining bitcoin, but not in the foreseeable future.

[Lucius]

I think this 2020 we should focus on reducing the carbon footprint of bitcoins , reduce the energy minning takes ND the pollution it generates .
Hopefully the community will come forward and the creators will also look out for this .
If you are in the IT sector please spare some time and brains for this problem and try finding a way out .

You really think that Bitcoin is to blame for the fires in the Amazon or Australia, or for the snow not falling in the winter like it used to? More than once in this forum, the thesis about Bitcoin as the cause of the problem has been taken down to the ground. More than 2 thirds of the energy used for mining comes from renewable sources, mainly hydropower. I don't know what more the crypto community should do to prevent global warming or all the catastrophes happening in the world, they are the consequence of what began after WW II, and the consequences are visible today, the progress and civilization we have today have their price.

Good post to see how insignificant the impact of Bitcoin mining really is.

0.2% (which I showed in my post above is a more accurate number than the 1% this report suggests) is such a tiny fraction compared to other uses of electricity. Not even in terms of major things like infrastructure or corporations, but in every day household use.

Bitcoin uses approximately 51.5 TWh per year. According to this report (https://www.nrdc.org/sites/default/files/settopboxes.pdf), cable boxes in the US alone use 3 GW just being in standby, which works out to 26 TWh per year, or about half of the bitcoin network's power demands. This doesn't even include the TVs they are connected to, or the associated sound systems, or DVD players, or games consoles, or everything else that sits there in standby for 16 hours a day. And this in the US only, never mind globally.

Now think how many lights are left on which aren't needed, or computers turned on which aren't actively being used, or computers in sleep or standby modes, or TVs which are on but not being watched, or consoles on which aren't being played, etc. Not just in the US, but globally. Even just wasted household electricity absolutely dwarfs the electricity consumption of the bitcoin network.

[fiulpro]

<cut>
If you are in the IT sector please spare some time and brains for this problem and try finding a way out .

I'm afraid the problem is much more complicated than you think. In general, I positively welcome your position on this but I think that people who make decisions won't do anything about that right now. There will certainly be more effective ways of mining bitcoin, but not in the foreseeable future.

Yes of course I understand but at the same time the damage it's doing is irreplaceable ,
Maybe after the whole Bitcoin is mined,we won't have that problem anymore but still there are some years left and maybe there could be a law like ,
People who wanna mine should actually just you know use the renewable sources of energy for the 80% of part .
This would obviously require input at first but after that it could prove to be very cheap for the user too.

[fiulpro]

I think this 2020 we should focus on reducing the carbon footprint of bitcoins , reduce the energy minning takes ND the pollution it generates .
Hopefully the community will come forward and the creators will also look out for this .
If you are in the IT sector please spare some time and brains for this problem and try finding a way out .

You really think that Bitcoin is to blame for the fires in the Amazon or Australia, or for the snow not falling in the winter like it used to? More than once in this forum, the thesis about Bitcoin as the cause of the problem has been taken down to the ground. More than 2 thirds of the energy used for mining comes from renewable sources, mainly hydropower. I don't know what more the crypto community should do to prevent global warming or all the catastrophes happening in the world, they are the consequence of what began after WW II, and the consequences are visible today, the progress and civilization we have today have their price.

Good post to see how insignificant the impact of Bitcoin mining really is.

0.2% (which I showed in my post above is a more accurate number than the 1% this report suggests) is such a tiny fraction compared to other uses of electricity. Not even in terms of major things like infrastructure or corporations, but in every day household use.

Bitcoin uses approximately 51.5 TWh per year. According to this report (https://www.nrdc.org/sites/default/files/settopboxes.pdf), cable boxes in the US alone use 3 GW just being in standby, which works out to 26 TWh per year, or about half of the bitcoin network's power demands. This doesn't even include the TVs they are connected to, or the associated sound systems, or DVD players, or games consoles, or everything else that sits there in standby for 16 hours a day. And this in the US only, never mind globally.

Now think how many lights are left on which aren't needed, or computers turned on which aren't actively being used, or computers in sleep or standby modes, or TVs which are on but not being watched, or consoles on which aren't being played, etc. Not just in the US, but globally. Even just wasted household electricity absolutely dwarfs the electricity consumption of the bitcoin network.

Omg it's completely hilarious how you interpreted this , it's like how we could as a community make bitcoins environment friendly and self sustainable .
You think Bitcoiners went and lit the fire is what I meant?
Dude , every step counts !
EVERY !
Wether it's growing the community in a greener way or looking for other sources ..
Please take an account of what you really think people mean and what they actually mean .

Unfortunately the source you stated is something I already read , you should understand that different scientists and different forums are displaying a different result everywhere

For example :-

Depending on the energy source, researchers estimate that crypto-mining can produce 3-15 million tons of global carbon emissions.


This !
It's an estimate but one should understand that countries like China and others where the mining hub is located are not using the renewable sources that much .
People are doing it illegally in developing countries too , it's not as easy as you would read.

[mindrust]

Bitcoin will never have an environment friendly PoW algorithm.

The power you spend to mine bitcoins is the price you pay to secure the system. The huge amount of electricity being spent on the bitcoin network just shows how much people willing to spend to keep the blockchain secure.

And it is still more environment friendly than the whole central banking scam.

[franky1]

1. mining is already becoming more sustainable. the hashrate/watt is getting more efficient all the time. imagine hashing 100exahash using GPU and you will see that if we didnt develop ASICS the electric use would be much much much much(not exaggerating) higher
take for instance 9GPU rig vs a antminer s9 . (same electric use)
900mhash(gpu) vs 14thash
yep ASIC is 15,555x more efficient than GPU

2. bushfires are not caused by mining... if it was then china and georgia would be on fire. not the amazon/australia.
the reason the amazon and australia burn is due to the lack of water. carbon is a lung health issue because the 'greenhousegas' actually shows the upper atmosphere is cooling. yep its cooling. heat rises and more is getting released into the atmosphere rather than being reflected back in.. because the greenhouse affect is not reflecting much back.... at ground level the reason why not as much heat is getting evaporated into the air is lack of water. yep the water cycle has more problems than carbon.

3. snow at christmas... i think you have been watching too much cocacola adverts and fairy tale books making people think they remember snow at christmas every year.. truth is snow is more of a february period.
in england we have historical data that in the last 60 years we only had 9 times of a white christmas but many more of a white february. even things like the london 'frost fair' in the 1800's was in february.
what you find out is things like the cartoon 'the snowman' (nothing to do with christmas the author says) is featured on tv at christmas. even things like the movies 'frozen' 1&2.(again nothing to do with christmas) are released around the november/december period.
did you know most christmas movies are not filmed at christmas. but filmed using fake snow and people celebrating christ while outside the studio its summer. yep snow on TV is usually fake snow.. paper mache

...
summary. dont take media's opinion on how things are. actually do the math find the stats and actually really think about whats being presented to you

[pakhitheboss]

Hey
We all know how the year had been , unfortunately we have seen worst case of bush fire in Amazon , in Australia , environment is changing drastically , not so long enough we used to have snow here and now it's already January , no sign of snow ...
In certain places where it was supposed to be winter , it's raining there tremendously and it's something that am seeing from my own eyes.
I think this 2020 we should focus on reducing the carbon footprint of bitcoins , reduce the energy minning takes ND the pollution it generates .
Hopefully the community will come forward and the creators will also look out for this .
If you are in the IT sector please spare some time and brains for this problem and try finding a way out .

Okay I do agree Bitcoin does contribute to pollution but, that is negligible.

Major concern is vehicular pollution and industrial pollution. Third world countries have started working on it but, industrial power giants like America are ignoring it.

Things have to change and change can come only when big leaders agree and not disagree. I live in acoutry where plastic bags have been banned completely, more and more innovative ideas are being implemented to reduce carbon footprint. Like subsidizing electric vehicles and promoting it in large scale.

Hopefully my country Neill achieve the target within the next decade.

P.S I live in a third world country.

[o_e_l_e_o]

Dude , every step counts !

I agree with you that every step counts, but Lucius and the post of mine he quoted are still accurate. Bitcoin is a tiny proportion of global energy usage. If you somehow managed to make bitcoin 99% more efficient, you would still have saved far less electricity than if you made TVs (or cable boxes, or computers, or light bulbs, etc.) 1% more efficient.

Depending on the energy source, researchers estimate that crypto-mining can produce 3-15 million tons of global carbon emissions.

Again, a tiny fraction. Based on the research I have seen, even the higher figure of 15 millions tonnes of CO₂ is total current emissions from cryptomining, so works out at less than 3 million tonnes per year. Global CO₂ emissions are currently over 40 billion tonnes per year, meaning cryptocurrency is less than 0.01%. For comparison, console gaming (not including mobile or PC gaming), accounts for 30 million tonnes per year, and streaming online porn accounts for 100 million tonnes per year. If everyone in the world watched 3% less porn than they currently watch, it would offset the entire bitcoin network and more.

[Lucius]

Omg it's completely hilarious how you interpreted this , it's like how we could as a community make bitcoins environment friendly and self sustainable .
You think Bitcoiners went and lit the fire is what I meant?

I just answered what you state in your post, and you link the fires in Amazonia, Australia and the lack of snow with Bitcoin mining? We all got the impression that you thinking is going in that direction.

Please take an account of what you really think people mean and what they actually mean .

Please take into consideration that I and other members of the forum cannot read your thoughts and that we are only responding to what you wrote.

Depending on the energy source, researchers estimate that crypto-mining can produce 3-15 million tons of global carbon emissions.
It's an estimate but one should understand that countries like China and others where the mining hub is located are not using the renewable sources that much .

You completely ignore the fact that almost all major mining farms in China use hydroelectric power, and that carbon emissions from mining is so insignificant that it's not worth discussing it at all. So-called experts and scientists who make some kind of calculations are mostly ignorant or paid to create a false image of Bitcoin. I believe more in what o_e_l_e_o post, then into all their nonsense.

Sichuan beckons power-hungry cryptocurrency miners to the home of the pandas with cheap and plentiful hydroelectricity

[luppecuppe]

Electricity is the most important problem for making mining sustainable. Electricity consumption is already a general problem. Bitcoin mining needs to be done with renewable energy sources. Bitcoin production is also very expensive equipment.

[BeManga]

Hey
We all know how the year had been , unfortunately we have seen worst case of bush fire in Amazon , in Australia , environment is changing drastically , not so long enough we used to have snow here and now it's already January , no sign of snow ...
In certain places where it was supposed to be winter , it's raining there tremendously and it's something that am seeing from my own eyes.
I think this 2020 we should focus on reducing the carbon footprint of bitcoins , reduce the energy minning takes ND the pollution it generates .
Hopefully the community will come forward and the creators will also look out for this .
If you are in the IT sector please spare some time and brains for this problem and try finding a way out .

P.S. people please understand that I do not mean they cause bush fires !! It's all about environment change

in my opinion bitcoin mining is not only the cause of that pollution maybe it just adds a little because it also use electricity
there already a lot of pollution in the world before bitcoin is created it's also increasing because power demands continue to rise
the main cause of pollution is the new building more population that use a lot of electricity
if you want to change maybe start from yourself and show us some examples like stop using gadgets and devices that use electricity

[avikz]

Hey
We all know how the year had been , unfortunately we have seen worst case of bush fire in Amazon , in Australia , environment is changing drastically , not so long enough we used to have snow here and now it's already January , no sign of snow ...
In certain places where it was supposed to be winter , it's raining there tremendously and it's something that am seeing from my own eyes.
I think this 2020 we should focus on reducing the carbon footprint of bitcoins , reduce the energy minning takes ND the pollution it generates .
Hopefully the community will come forward and the creators will also look out for this .
If you are in the IT sector please spare some time and brains for this problem and try finding a way out .

P.S. people please understand that I do not mean they cause bush fires !! It's all about environment change

It's a noble thought! Even though bitcoin mining uses a very small fraction of world energy consumption, but we need to start taking baby steps! I believe the only way to make bitcoin mining sustainable and to reduce carbon emission, is to move to alternative energy source. So solar power is a very good alternative for all small bitcoin miners. Yes, it is expensive but also it is a one time cost! Usually each solar panel comes with 10 years lifetime so the investment towards solar panel also gets a bigger payback period. As of now, I don't see any other viable options to make mining sustainable. let me know your thoughts!

[karmamiu]

Electricity is the most important problem for making mining sustainable. Electricity consumption is already a general problem. Bitcoin mining needs to be done with renewable energy sources. Bitcoin production is also very expensive equipment.

              Regardless of whether we mined or not, still the electricity consumption does have negative effects on different areas that is also why I agree with your opinion, and the excessive usage of electricity coupled with different machines and technology for mining it is much more of a headache than to reduce the pollution. Basically it would also result your idea into adapting renewable resource of energy which is up until now scientists keep researching ways to achieve it. For example is the nuclear source which is commonly heard, but the problem is that, it is like a double edge sword, which is if the government officially supports its usage and provides funding it is also way too risky and could also potentially harm the environment. In the end we could just only bare with it and keep on transcending and researching new ways which has  lesser harm with great benefits, but I think it is quiet impossible as of now. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[SophieMil996]

1. mining is already becoming more sustainable. the hashrate/watt is getting more efficient all the time. imagine hashing 100exahash using GPU and you will see that if we didnt develop ASICS the electric use would be much much much much(not exaggerating) higher
take for instance 9GPU rig vs a antminer s9 . (same electric use)
900mhash(gpu) vs 14thash
yep ASIC is 15,555x more efficient than GPU

2. bushfires are not caused by mining... if it was then china and georgia would be on fire. not the amazon/australia.
the reason the amazon and australia burn is due to the lack of water. carbon is a lung health issue because the 'greenhousegas' actually shows the upper atmosphere is cooling. yep its cooling. heat rises and more is getting released into the atmosphere rather than being reflected back in.. because the greenhouse affect is not reflecting much back.... at ground level the reason why not as much heat is getting evaporated into the air is lack of water. yep the water cycle has more problems than carbon.

3. snow at christmas... i think you have been watching too much cocacola adverts and fairy tale books making people think they remember snow at christmas every year.. truth is snow is more of a february period.
in england we have historical data that in the last 60 years we only had 9 times of a white christmas but many more of a white february. even things like the london 'frost fair' in the 1800's was in february.
what you find out is things like the cartoon 'the snowman' (nothing to do with christmas the author says) is featured on tv at christmas. even things like the movies 'frozen' 1&2.(again nothing to do with christmas) are released around the november/december period.
did you know most christmas movies are not filmed at christmas. but filmed using fake snow and people celebrating christ while outside the studio its summer. yep snow on TV is usually fake snow.. paper mache

...
summary. dont take media's opinion on how things are. actually do the math find the stats and actually really think about whats being presented to you

Well if anyone sticks on these “it is better than it was” / “others do worst” kind of arguments we are in bad shape.
As a mother, I use bitcoin because I think it will bring a better world to my children.
At the same time, as an engineer, my opinion is that it will be an epic failure if such hashpower can’t do more than just secure bitcoin blockchain.

[Artemis3]

Hey
We all know how the year had been , unfortunately we have seen worst case of bush fire in Amazon , in Australia , environment is changing drastically , not so long enough we used to have snow here and now it's already January , no sign of snow ...
In certain places where it was supposed to be winter , it's raining there tremendously and it's something that am seeing from my own eyes.
I think this 2020 we should focus on reducing the carbon footprint of bitcoins , reduce the energy minning takes ND the pollution it generates .
Hopefully the community will come forward and the creators will also look out for this .
If you are in the IT sector please spare some time and brains for this problem and try finding a way out .

P.S. people please understand that I do not mean they cause bush fires !! It's all about environment change

I'm in IT, and I have already devised a master plan that will effectively reduce mining footprint (actually Satoshi did): Do NOTHING.

Yes nothing. Because the halvings ensure mining becomes less and less profitable overtime, the large mining you see today will be gone tomorrow. You are only watching the last leg, until it becomes unprofitable to mine at any electricity price.

Exactly how you should always consider the State intervening in the economy: Don't. Just wait it out and see how it solves by itself due to free market forces.

As for bush fires, i think Australia (the World actually) should somehow start a massive reforestation campaign.

[YuginKadoya]

I also think that Mining for Bitcoin will not last long it has an end after the last block had been mine all mining procedures will also come to a halt, but not to mention the past mining that had to happen and it already contributed to the population and I think it is already too late the damage had been done,

But in my opinion, don't blame it all in the mining of the block there are much bigger things that make the environment and our world into global warming and I think we can sure focus on that because I truly think that mining is just a small portion of that problem so just chill.

[o_e_l_e_o]

You are only watching the last leg, until it becomes unprofitable to mine at any electricity price.

If that becomes the case, then bitcoin's future existence is at risk. Even once the block reward is zero, we still need miners to be operating and sustained by transaction fees, or else the hashrate falls to zero, no new blocks are found, and therefore transactions aren't possible. Of course, that would never happen because the difficulty would readjust and so it would again become profitable to mine with less powerful hardware using less electricity.

I also think that Mining for Bitcoin will not last long it has an end after the last block had been mine all mining procedures will also come to a halt

There is no "last block", or at least if there is, it's because bitcoin is no more.

[kryptqnick]

Hey
We all know how the year had been , unfortunately we have seen worst case of bush fire in Amazon , in Australia , environment is changing drastically , not so long enough we used to have snow here and now it's already January , no sign of snow ...
In certain places where it was supposed to be winter , it's raining there tremendously and it's something that am seeing from my own eyes.
I think this 2020 we should focus on reducing the carbon footprint of bitcoins , reduce the energy minning takes ND the pollution it generates .
Hopefully the community will come forward and the creators will also look out for this .
If you are in the IT sector please spare some time and brains for this problem and try finding a way out .

P.S. people please understand that I do not mean they cause bush fires !! It's all about environment change

To reduce the footprint we should first get to consensus on where it currently stands. I agree that it's important to help our environment and that the beginning of the year already shows the serious consequences of previous policies. The problem is that I've seen conflicting research about Bitcoin mining's impact on the environment. There's been data saying that it's mostly clean energy that's used, and some suggest quite the opposite. So which one is it?
Secondly, it's, unfortunately, something very hard to control. I  don't mine, so I'm not a part of it, but when I use electricity in a flat I rent (or even when those who own flats in my country do that), it's not up to me what is the source of that energy and how clean it is. It's up to the government. So how can this be changed by miners?

[bdivrik]

Too much electricity is consumed to produce Bitcoin. I agree with this situation. But is the production of other swap vehicles very cheap? Bitcoin is a result of the current economy. The economic impasse led people to Bitcoin. A solution based on solar energy will be developed.