BTC Futures Manipulation

[GreatArkansas]

Is this illegal in any way at this point in time? And if this is legal , Whats to stop people with lots of money to do this?
Is this why the price of BTC is down because there are people doing this?
And if this is the case , how can we stop people from doing this or is there no other way around this?

1.) It is illegal I think once the owner or company under that exchange is something connected to doing those actions.
2.) I don't think so, there are lot of factors why BTC is dumping/pumping, like some ETF things, exchanges hacks or manipulations just like what you said with some big players with also have huge money.
3.) For me, stop supporting those kinds of exchange and start learning or use some decentralized exchange. And for me, NOT DOING TRADING is good.

Big whale can manipulate coin price easily especially during non peak period eg. holiday season (....)

I'm curious why the whales is determinated midnight while cryptocurrency is worldwide and the users are coming from different timezone
I think they will pump it on random time, (....)

Exactly! You just need tons of money to do that, but I don't think so if you can really do it on the futures market, it's difficult especially you are trading contracts. And that's also applicable in some exchanges with low volumes, or a trading pair with low volume.

[jostorres]

I do not really think you can manipulate the price for bitcoins with 400btc or even more because already bitcoins are been traded on extremely higher volume which would require much higher funds to manipulate the markets for your sake. You can assume, you would need at least 40% of the total volume onto the exchange which would than make it possible for you to manipulate the price by using futures leverage trading to short bitcoins in small pumps or dumps.

If you have those amount of funds than you can find any lower volume exchange where bitcoins are traded regularly but with a comparatively lower volume so that you can manipulate the price there by adjusting the buy or sell orders accordingly. Off course this might not be something which might be legal.

[Assface16678]

Big whale can manipulate coin price easily especially during non peak period eg. holiday season or midnight when everyone sleeping. They just need to pump or dump BTC for few minutes to make good fortune.

I'm curious why the whales is determinated midnight while cryptocurrency is worldwide and the users are coming from different timezone
I think they will pump it on random time, even when people are expecting a big pump and a bull run, they could dump it because they owned a lot of btcs and crypto assets

In using cryptocurrency, we all know that many people are using their money to invest with the use of bitcoin, and those people are so influential because sometimes having a lot of coins. It depends on you how will you run the market price, we all know that the whales or the people who have a lot of bitcoin gives a lot of market value when they are trying to release some of their investment and use for trading so the market will be affected because of the amount they release. There is a chance that the bitcoin manipulation price will happen. Still, we cannot stop other people from doing this because every trader and user wants to have a reasonable market price of the coin and make a lot of money because of their knowledge and skills.

[davinchi]

Even the exchanges wouldn't allow this type of thing because they are insured against these kinds of behaviors, all those exchanges will be in big trouble if there are more payments they have to make than the deposits they have for the other side, lets say someone has 1 billion and put it all on long futures, there has to be at least 1 billion on the other side as well, otherwise exchanges would have to pay it, so either they won't allow it, or they would just make them buy the opposites as long as there is available, otherwise they would have to pay themselves and that is not really possible with the amount of money exchanges make.

I assume there are many ways to prevent things like these happen in the exchange world, I don't know the exact method but I am sure it exists.

[boris singer]

still legal because the futures system moves in the accumulation of contracts, traders can make decisions with a variety of leverage offered. Traders are accustomed to the averaging process to determine various profit positions, concentrating everything in one order and so on will only make losses, several times it looks successful, but you will see the opposite in the next order.

[Yatsan]

Not that anyone with one billion dollars would ever go into future manipulation like that because we are talking about hundreds of millions of dollars lost if they can't do what they are trying to do, don't get me wrong it may sound easy to you but this is a market with billions of dollars of volume and there is a high chance you can achieve what you are trying to do if you have one billion dollars but on the off chance you fail, that is hundreds of millions of dollars, not hundreds of dollars.

It may sound easy for small scale investors still huge amount of money can get the market easily manipulated. Billions of dollars can be doubled up, trust me, if that person only knows what to do and when to do it. Such huge amount can set traps to center the speculation and then out, just like that. Things are pretty easy when you have money, that's the reality.

However, even if they want to do what you are saying, they have to first buy a lot of bitcoin before buying long, you need bitcoin to buy bitcoin long anyway, so they can only buy a lot of bitcoin after the long with whatever is left, same with buying short futures with bitcoin as well, then sell the rest, so they can't do huge moves with one swift motion, they have to keep putting it into two different things.

It is legal since we are talking no rules about that, they can do whatever they want with their money and it's up to them to decide where they are going to take it. But I doubt the price of bitcoin is reflected from this, speculation is still the core of its price we just have to admit that there are just unequal effects.

[FanEagle]

Well, the way you explain it, it is possible with every stock or cryptocurrency. Manipulation is always a possibility but the odds of that happening is a bit low or the extent of the possibility of making huge swings is not that high. A lot of BTC is kept on HODL, according to recent reports, $100 Billion worth of BTC hasnt even moved since 2017. So, the manipulation chances are a bit lower coz of it.

This is reality, and we can't be serious for that manipulation dominated our market price nowadays. Holders remain calm at this moment while fears of dumps will be possible at any random situations, that because sellers are waiting for another some spikes of btc price. Huge btc holdings are still in the whales, we should wait until such time the market is freed from bearish trend.

Yes, even I think the same. Only the big whales are the one's who have accumulated at the approximate dips and now are holding majority of bitcoins into their bags just looking for an opportunity to empty their bags once the price hikes a lot giving them access profits.

In these kind of markets, small amount traders get usually manipulated as until they come to know the trend of the current markets, the markets change their direction according to the big whales which might leave small volume traders on an edge of loss. But yet, each small volume trader too can have a chance to fill their bags with profits if they could understand the market phenomenons.

[chip1994]

Without the SEC or investor protection organization, we certainly will never get fair trade.  Trade was originally called gambling and now our odds of losing are higher and higher as whales constantly use their bitcoins to manipulate.  It is also one of the dangers of trading in a decentralized market, so I advise people not to be all in and to manage their capital well.  The whale is always stalking you and it can swallow you at any time.

[djgtr]

Without the SEC or investor protection organization, we certainly will never get fair trade.  Trade was originally called gambling and now our odds of losing are higher and higher as whales constantly use their bitcoins to manipulate.  It is also one of the dangers of trading in a decentralized market, so I advise people not to be all in and to manage their capital well.  The whale is always stalking you and it can swallow you at any time.

Generally, fewer trader knows what these whales can do with our small capital and I believed that they're fearless. They're not merciful on small traders, but more often times whales won't bite you off if it's not their moment of harvest. You should be more smarter to determine their signs of dominations towards the market. Decentralized market experience on trading is great but we need to be careful and vigilant with our actions.

[avatar_kiyoshi]

Without the SEC or investor protection organization, we certainly will never get fair trade.  Trade was originally called gambling and now our odds of losing are higher and higher as whales constantly use their bitcoins to manipulate.  It is also one of the dangers of trading in a decentralized market, so I advise people not to be all in and to manage their capital well.  The whale is always stalking you and it can swallow you at any time.

SEC only protecting people from pump and dump group that give a false signal and wanted profit from scamming people. For those whales on the market I'm not sure SEC will consider it as fraudulent activity, even if it's group of whales.

And yes, put all in one basket is the worse thing. Those whales (or group of whales) is organized, they know how to shake the market sentiment just thru order book.

[Distinctin]

Without the SEC or investor protection organization, we certainly will never get fair trade.  Trade was originally called gambling and now our odds of losing are higher and higher as whales constantly use their bitcoins to manipulate.  It is also one of the dangers of trading in a decentralized market, so I advise people not to be all in and to manage their capital well.  The whale is always stalking you and it can swallow you at any time.

Generally, fewer trader knows what these whales can do with our small capital and I believed that they're fearless. They're not merciful on small traders, but more often times whales won't bite you off if it's not their moment of harvest. You should be more smarter to determine their signs of dominations towards the market. Decentralized market experience on trading is great but we need to be careful and vigilant with our actions.

And we also know the market status and don't feed our small capital to them. Manipulation tends to happen only when we allowed it to happen, if not (just like following hypes) it eventually they will never succeed. But it is so sad to think that some of us here want instant and quick returns, but the result is totally a deniable loss to their ends.

[AniviaBtc]

Future manipulation is unpredictable on anyone. Because BTC is a decentralized platform so huge investors are easily manipulate the BTC. Nowadays market stability is depends on BTC pump and dump so we can survive any situation because of crypto potential. I hope every year some countries are legalised in BTC so every year we some positive uptrend. Once it will globalized, manipulation will never occur.

Manipulation by price pump and dump will be always happen because there are already too many people are holding thousands BTC and i'm sure they're making a group of people who can control market movement. I'm sure a big group of whales could posses 1 mil BTC and when they move the market must be going crazy either it's pump or dump

There are types of manipulation exist and those are controlling the price and manipulating the fuds, And I don't literally believe on price manipulation by having a millions of btc since for sure there's no people hold that and the strongest fact there is maybe they are riding the fuds to lower down the demands that's why we can see those fake and other bad news coming just to make the price of the bitcoins cheaper and those rich guys can buy and earn on the next pump wave.

It feels like a Market manipulation because you can control the price and the time when you will buy and sell. It is impossible for someone hold a huge amount of btc, it is very hard to mine and buy because of its uncertainty in price. The whales are the secondary enemy when it comes to bitcoin. First, is the Market because it is very hard to understand and control the market.

Whales can either lose or win the games because of the strategies they perform. They took advantage of the moment and doesn't let anyone hold some. That's why it is very impossible to hope for a better circumstances in bitcoin.

[1Referee]

SEC only protecting people from pump and dump group that give a false signal and wanted profit from scamming people. For those whales on the market I'm not sure SEC will consider it as fraudulent activity, even if it's group of whales.

The SEC isn't protecting anyone. It's extremely hard to build up a case against certain entities that are said to manipulate the market. It's a false sense of security people think the SEC provides. If you lose money, you still have lost money even if the SEC manages to build up a case against the manipulators. They're not an insurance company.

Another thing is that we have plenty enough evidence where the SEC hands out fines but doesn't take any further action. The fines paid are an absolute joke compared to the profits that have been generated, so what incentive is there for people or companies to follow the rules? It's far more profitable to break the rules with how the fines are just a few % of the actual profits generated. 

[sisule]

SEC only protecting people from pump and dump group that give a false signal and wanted profit from scamming people. For those whales on the market I'm not sure SEC will consider it as fraudulent activity, even if it's group of whales.

The SEC isn't protecting anyone. It's extremely hard to build up a case against certain entities that are said to manipulate the market. It's a false sense of security people think the SEC provides. If you lose money, you still have lost money even if the SEC manages to build up a case against the manipulators. They're not an insurance company.

Another thing is that we have plenty enough evidence where the SEC hands out fines but doesn't take any further action. The fines paid are an absolute joke compared to the profits that have been generated, so what incentive is there for people or companies to follow the rules? It's far more profitable to break the rules with how the fines are just a few % of the actual profits generated. 

I know SEC try to protect their citizen and never allowing their people invest with wrong investment project, SEC have been long time when hype project keep running and many time SEC make hype project hold their balance with  SEC regulation, now they try to give little space for bitcoin and not make bitcoin good destination for investing.

[bitgolden]

Depends on which nation you are in as well. Doing this from USA is quite illegal, because USA has SEC and they do care about your bitcoin trading as well, if you manipulate even bitcoin market and make money from it, SEC will give you a penalty worth quite a chunk of your profits.

But like everyone said, this can't be done due to lack of volume in the market, as soon as you throw money at the market that is equal to current all volume, you will cripple the market to freezing and you won't be able to make money, you could possibly use it to increase it just a slight bit instead of making huge movements and that is the max you can do without hurting the market. Hopefully no whale would read this because if even one of them ever tries it, we will have a horrible market in recovery for years for sure.

[Leviathan.007]

IMPORTANT:
Let's say leverage is a trap. first if you look at it you will see a epic amount of profit you can get.
but "playing with leverage is like playing with fire." between my friends 80% of money they on leverage.
If you trade normally even if you lose you can hold your cheap coin and sell then later even after 1 year. but in futures when you lose you will liquid you money.
I would highly recommend you to just invest 20% of your balance or even less.
and when you are doing this, never be greedy about the profits you get.
crypto markets are moving too fast even if you don't use futures and now imagine you make it X125 faster!
Even for most experience traders they usually avoid using it.
I imagine you are going to climb a ladder what you do?! 1. Moving slowly but strongly 2. Ignoring some steps and moving too fast.
Obviously, if you chose the option "1" this will tale longer but "YOU WILL" reach top of the leader. Believe me, people in option we fall one day. sooner or later, but they will.
In the other hand you should take care about your life. do you want a stressful life and always keep worrying about losing all your money?
Some people say "If you risk more you will get more rewards." and It's true. But always remember the "RISK" part and what kind of risk you are going to take. Before knowing any technical strategy money management and the risk management is much more important.
I'm just saying this because I lost too much money on it and I don't want other people to lose.
In the end you are the only choosing for your investments and I'm just giving suggestions.
Sincerely

[jazmuzika217]

I think the factor that many rich people did not do that strategies because they are only practical. All we know that crypto investment is very risky, and there is a big possibilty that government will ban the crypto so it is big problem in side of businessman or rich people. So I think there is no man even the richest man will do that so it is impossible that this is the reason why of price fall.

[Negotiation]

BTC Futures is very difficult to manipulate it usually depends on its price. BTC prices are falling because the demand for BTC is very low. If people overdo it then the price will eventually rise. Investing in crypto has reduced the risk of many investing now. But its character is not possible to remove the whole Puri it is possible to increase the price of BTC if the market remains stable.

[EdvinZ]

To protect yourself from market manipulation, you should use minimal leverage in trading. If you do not understand the market and just hope for luck, then it is better to allocate an amount that you can afford to lose in margin trading. In any case, it is better to start trading without leverage on a spot market.

[Hypnosis00]

Manipulation will certainly be arises in the future in crypto. It is already been started and it is getting more stronger by now. It is really disappointing how the regulatory board let this thing happen but that is all about. Only we have to get preferred coz the time will come that whales will play again. Only I'm afraid if the government will control the entire market and change everything into centralized in form.