[2019-12-18] Why Bitcoin Adoption May Spike if Australia’s Proposed “Cash Ban” A

[secone]

People could be jailed for two years and fined $25,200 just for using more than $10,000 in cash in one transaction under a new bill being considered by the Australian Parliament; if passed, the bill is likely to drive citizens away from traditional financial institutions and towards decentralized cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin.
https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-13/proposed-cash-ban-is-not-about-controlling-your-money-says-rba/11858104
https://www.newsbtc.com/2020/01/13/bitcoin-adoption-likely-spike-australias-proposed-cash-ban-comes-into-effect/

[Lucius]

I can already see how a decision like this could make a difference that the average Australian chooses to pay with BTC. Do Australians walk around with tens of thousands of dollars in their wallets and spend like drunken billionaires so this bill represents a problem for them? After all, paying with BTC is not as anonymous as some still think, so if someone legally bought BTC for more than $10k and then spent it in a single transaction, one does not need to be an extra expert to discover this.

Australia is not the first to consider such a law, Uruguay is set this limit to $5000, and some EU countries (Spain, Portugal, France...) also have certain limits when it comes to cash transactions.

[adeandro]

I don't think this will have much impact on the world community

[Aveatrex]

Australia is not the first to consider such a law, Uruguay is set this limit to $5000, and some EU countries (Spain, Portugal, France...) also have certain limits when it comes to cash transactions.

France has a 1000 euros transaction limit, which is relatively low compared to Australia and other countries but this limit didn't consist a reason for french people to start using more cryptocurrencies; everyone just use their credit card for whatever amount even if it's just a 0.5$ pack of cookies and we can't blame them,it's way more convenient than using BTC on a daily basis..

[cr1776]

I'm not so sure it will impact the global fiat price of bitcoin on its own as long as people think they need to cash out of bitcoin. The problem is that authoritarians the world over want to control people and this is another example of how they intend to do it.  Once people realize they could just buy bitcoin and stay in it, with upgrades to the protocol to enhance privacy, it would be a big win for liberty in the world.

[Kyraishi]

As far as I know, this is only dealing with registered businesses.

And plus, this is just a proposed bill which means that it's nowhere near the stage of being law yet. But the thought of this becoming law is reason enough to believe that Australia, and other western countries, are going to increasingly tighten their hold on the cash ecosystem and slowly yet surely drive out the usage cases for cash for various reasons (some more draconian than others).

I don't think that bitcoin adoption would necessarily spike. In fact, I'd expect local trading volumes on p2p exchanges in Australia at least to take a sizable hit in the short term. But sooner or later people will find alternatives, let's make that very clear.

[stompix]

Australia is not the first to consider such a law, Uruguay is set this limit to $5000, and some EU countries (Spain, Portugal, France...) also have certain limits when it comes to cash transactions.

We're far worse here in Europe compared to that, it comes at around 6000 euros. And in some other countries besides the ones you've mentioned it is far worse than what's going to be in Australia, for example, Romania and Greece with about 2k and Italy with 1k. Besides Denmark has mandatory filings for payments over 2k.
Seriously, who deas every day in cahs with more than 6000 euros?

Besides, the limit is for commercial transactions so you will not be fined for giving a relative 15k AUD or for garage sales.

"For example, if you choose to sell a personal asset to a private individual, such as a car for $15,000, you will still be able to do so in cash," he said.
"However, if you were buying a car from a car dealer, you would not be able to pay $10,000 or more of the balance in cash."

Unfortunately, this will not trigger any crypto adoption, the guys that are affected by this will simp,y try to avoid the barriers by splitting payments and daily income, using bitcoin would live too many traces and they would need also their partners to deal in crypto. Maybe it will happen with a few as time passes but no mass adoption will be triggered because of this.

[cr1776]

...
Unfortunately, this will not trigger any crypto adoption, the guys that are affected by this will simp,y try to avoid the barriers by splitting payments and daily income, using bitcoin would live too many traces and they would need also their partners to deal in crypto. Maybe it will happen with a few as time passes but no mass adoption will be triggered because of this.

You are right.  In the US (and some other jurisdictions) that is known as "structuring" (31 CFR 1010.100 et seq.) and that in itself is illegal - e.g. if you do 10 cash deposits of $9500 each over 10 days or if you get 10 of your family members to do $9500 each etc.  Big brother wants to know who is doing what with whom and want to be able to control it, so if it isn't already illegal, governments will make it so soon enough.

[hatshepsut93]

If people massively switched to Bitcoin to avoid cash regulations, the government would quickly implement similar regulations with crypto. Exchanges and merchants would have to do KYC (many of them already do), and they would share financial data with the government. Some people would try to do p2p transactions, but this would be as illegal as these large cash transactions, and people wouldn't want to risk it.

[hendra147]

If people massively switched to Bitcoin to avoid cash regulations, the government would quickly implement similar regulations with crypto. Exchanges and merchants would have to do KYC (many of them already do), and they would share financial data with the government. Some people would try to do p2p transactions, but this would be as illegal as these large cash transactions, and people wouldn't want to risk it.

How about localbitcoin? P2p transaction?
I think no people can stop bitcoin transaction or bitcoin holding even its government.

People will start buy and holding crypto

[cr1776]

If people massively switched to Bitcoin to avoid cash regulations, the government would quickly implement similar regulations with crypto. Exchanges and merchants would have to do KYC (many of them already do), and they would share financial data with the government. Some people would try to do p2p transactions, but this would be as illegal as these large cash transactions, and people wouldn't want to risk it.

The long term goal of bitcoin is to use it and stay in bitcoin.  Sure you might have KYC to buy, but once you have bitcoin, you use bitcoin and don't cash out.  With additional privacy additions to the bitcoin ecosystem then it would become much more difficult to track who is doing what.

Privacy is an important right, having some bureaucrat in government being able to track your every move and purchase isn't compatible with a free society which is many of the statist authoritarians goal.

[dothebeats]

Nah. Australians are still a bit way off the grid for bitcoin and crypto adoption. More likely that they are just going to use credit and debit cards at their disposal in order to pay for the goods and services that they are buying. This is just another article highlighting another hypothetical scenario and not actually discussing what actual events are happening and could happen within the region. And for one, who would in their sane minds carry out 10 grand of cash in them and just buying their groceries? With the way I see it, people hardly use any cash at all with their transactions on stores and shops--perhaps with the exception of a few developing countries, but even those are catching up.

We would likely see the development of online payment systems/services first more than cryptocurrencies. The latter is still seen as an obscure payment tool for the majority of people.

[magneto]

From what I've heard the public opinion's really against this proposed law, which means that there is significant doubts as to whether or not this can actually pass in the first place.

If this ban comes into place then it might actually hinder local p2p trading volumes in the short run because of the popularity of cash deposits as a method of payment for buying BTC in Australia. ATM limits were already tightening up and I assume this will continue to lower them, probably to the range of $2-5k a day which is nothing to big time, high volume traders.

[CryptoBry]

Australia is not the first to consider such a law, Uruguay is set this limit to $5000, and some EU countries (Spain, Portugal, France...) also have certain limits when it comes to cash transactions.

France has a 1000 euros transaction limit, which is relatively low compared to Australia and other countries but this limit didn't consist a reason for french people to start using more cryptocurrencies; everyone just use their credit card for whatever amount even if it's just a 0.5$ pack of cookies and we can't blame them,it's way more convenient than using BTC on a daily basis..

People here are so assuming that just because the government is putting a limit in the daily cash transactions, there will be a direct effect on it with Bitcoin. This kind of thinking failed to consider that there are also many other options available to anyone in these countries. Yes, they can just use their credit or debit cards for that matter because the core of this regulation is limiting the use of the paper money and not using any other means at their disposal. When using cards can be more convenient than using cryptocurrency, only a die-hard crypto fan will be shifting to us. Let's not all be overexcited for this development because there can really be no correlation between this and cryptocurrency, not unless it will be the government that will be telling their people to use Bitcoin instead which is kinda impossible not even in our wildest dreams.

[stompix]

And for one, who would in their sane minds carry out 10 grand of cash in them and just buying their groceries? With the way I see it, people hardly use any cash at all with their transactions on stores and shops--perhaps with the exception of a few developing countries, but even those are catching up.

More like, who needs to pay in cash for stuff every day over 10k AUD when the average wage is 7k?
The holes in this net are so big that even people who are clearly trying to avoid the law will be able to continue on doing this, paying 3-4 people for labor on the black market is nothing with these levels.

It's pretty clear they are targeting only big organizations and those if they haven't, yet switched to crypto it's obvious they won't be doing it too soon.

~

You are right.  In the US (and some other jurisdictions) that is known as "structuring" (31 CFR 1010.100 et seq.) and that in itself is illegal - e.g. if you do 10 cash deposits of $9500 each over 10 days or if you get 10 of your family members to do $9500 each etc.  Big brother wants to know who is doing what with whom and want to be able to control it, so if it isn't already illegal, governments will make it so soon enough.

One thing, since you used the term "deposits".
Here, although we have a limit for cash transactions there are no limits for bank deposits and as far as I'm aware this is the situation in most of the EU.

[1Referee]

When using cards can be more convenient than using cryptocurrency, only a die-hard crypto fan will be shifting to us.

Can be? They have been for years. I can use my debit card almost anywhere and I don't have to keep an eye on the price constantly to see how much purchasing power I have left for the day. It also doesn't cost me anything per transaction.

Crypto just sucks as payment method in most areas, and the few areas crypto is actually better than conventional payment methods, are not significant enough to make the price of Bitcoin do anything. In order for crypto to challenge convenional payment methods, crypto needs to be exponentially better to make people finally switch. Crypto right now is exponentially worse.

Crypto however is great for peer to peer value movements over the internet, there is a lot of room for growth because the PayPal's of this world suck balls in that area.

[secone]

to all people who pros and cons
of course bitcoin can be solution for payment gateway, or holding our money by own our bannk, but we can't deny some people who use bitcoin for "illegal transaction" like corrupt, international transaction without tax and of course money laundry
you can  read this https://www.repository.law.indiana.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=11100&context=ilj
you will know bitcoin can be use for money laundry easily than cash/bank transaction

[bbc.reporter]

Why I reckon bitcoin's adoption might not spike in Australia.

Strict regulations.

High volatility.

People cannot buy basic goods without exchanging to fiat.

People need KYC to buy bitcoin.

The risk to become unbanked.

It will be adopted in its own time, however.

[hilariousetc]

People could be jailed for two years and fined $25,200 just for using more than $10,000 in cash in one transaction under a new bill being considered by the Australian Parliament; if passed, the bill is likely to drive citizens away from traditional financial institutions and towards decentralized cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin.
https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2020-01-13/proposed-cash-ban-is-not-about-controlling-your-money-says-rba/11858104
https://www.newsbtc.com/2020/01/13/bitcoin-adoption-likely-spike-australias-proposed-cash-ban-comes-into-effect/

This would only be a temporary fix as if this happened and people started using bitcoin in such a way then they would just change the law to include limitations on large-scale bitcoin purchases. It seems very harsh threatening people with prison for merely using cash though and they should go after the people who have obtained the money nefariously rather than blanket restrictions and threats on all big cash purchases, which is what I'm guessing they're scared about here because I'm sure a good percentage of people using such large amounts of cash are doing it because the money was obtained in some illegal way, but obviously not all. I think a better way would be for large cash transaction to be reported to the IRS and then they can choose whether to investigate any potential wrong-doing if it looks suspicious or your taxes don't add up and this already happens in many countries, for instance if you went to buy an expensive car regardless of whether you paid in cash or not that purchase would likely be reported to the relevant government body that is responsible for looking into any financial shenanigans.

I'll also leave just this post below here what I just posted elsewhere because I think it's relevant as just because cash is on its way out or being restricted it doesn't mean that is going to boost bitcoin but rather other payment methods will likely be used instead:

Digital payments are the future, but probably not bitcoin. Cash will almost certainly be obsolete within our generation and one of the only complaints I've seen from people against getting rid of it are old people who still use cash because they fear or don't understand the tech, but in 20-30 years when they all die off they'll likely be no excuses, but this all doesn't mean that people will be flocking to bitcoin. Have you ever seen anyone using bitcoin to buy anything in the real world? Nope. It's rarity unless it's a niche shop that accepts bitcoin and people go out of their way to find it or shop there. People mostly just use their debit/credit card or phone apps these days and that's what they'll continue to use, though I guess we might see bitcoin integrated into these payment processors eventually as they become more popular/prevalent and the merchant just gets the cash equivalent. Eventually there might even be things like RFID implants or other sorts of devices that include them (bands or rings etc) that people will use to pay with but I think phone payments will eventually reign supreme because lets face it, nobody really leaves the house without their phone on them.

[secone]

People cannot buy basic goods without exchanging to fiat.

Because bitcoin is not legal payment gateway or payment processor , company can use this feature because the government prohibits using it for that purpose, but people still can use bitcin as digital aset.

People need KYC to buy bitcoin.

toady people can use internet to do everything, i don't agree with this statement, in localbitcoin , localmonero etc. you can buy face 2 face or peer 2 peer wihtout KYC, or maybe you can buy at bitcoin ATM too