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Author Topic: [VIDEO]The Nasty Secret of Bitcoin Exposed  (Read 488 times)
antikvark
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January 16, 2020, 06:19:52 PM
 #21

Membership is not an asset. Ownership is an asset. Also, being able or having right to transfer membership doesn't magically turn this membership into ownership.
Stop it with the "membership" bullshit. You're literally the only critic(besides the video creator, assuming it's not you) I've heard that's criticism is that "bitcoin is membership" or something. If you think digital asset  = membership then I don't know what to say. Seriously critics are getting worse and worse by the daily; and I thought Nouriel Roubini was bad.

If you buy gold than you own gold - an actual property.
Same thing with bitcoin, it's an actual property, it's just not backed by something physical.
Bitcoin membership is the fact of being a member of a group that gave up their ownership in exchange for digital or paper bitcoin certificates which grant zero ownership rights. Hence, there is no better word for this than membership.

Sure that Bitcoin is a property if a dozen of memory bytes or paper is a property. By certificate I mean paper that verifies the fact that you own property. Gold is property, while a gold certificate is a paper that verifies the existence of this property and displays its quantity and other info.
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January 17, 2020, 02:06:25 AM
 #22

Bitcoin membership is the fact of being a member of a group that gave up their ownership in exchange for digital or paper bitcoin certificates which grant zero ownership rights. Hence, there is no better word for this than membership.
Gave up their ownership? It's literally just a change of what asset they have ownership in. From the ownership of fiat, to ownership of bitcoin. You could use that "membership" argument with literally almost anything.

Sure that Bitcoin is a property if a dozen of memory bytes or paper is a property. By certificate I mean paper that verifies the fact that you own property. Gold is property, while a gold certificate is a paper that verifies the existence of this property and displays its quantity and other info.
That's actually one of the strengths of bitcoin. To prove ownership you don't need a printed piece of paper. Instead, you prove ownership by signing messages using certain addresses, or by making a certain transaction.

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January 17, 2020, 02:19:15 AM
 #23

The video explains how Bitcoin turns your ownership into membership, which is exactly how classical fraudulent schemes operate.

https://youtu.be/C5RplXYwCyY
It seems you really hate bitcoin, but strangely a bitcoin hater is in the bitcoin forum community, Your place should not be here, I'm sure almost all crypto users know the risks, it is their choice, if you don't like it you can leave because no one will care about your words.
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January 17, 2020, 04:09:13 AM
 #24

The video explains how Bitcoin turns your ownership into membership, which is exactly how classical fraudulent schemes operate.

https://youtu.be/C5RplXYwCyY

Do you know what is fraudulent here? It is this thing you are doing that is fraudulent.

And you claim to be educating people? Come on, you are the one who needs it. Isn't it obvious?

And talking about ownership, Bitcoin offers it 100%. Of course for as long as you do not save it somewhere else beyond your control such as exchange wallets.
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January 17, 2020, 05:13:50 AM
Last edit: January 17, 2020, 05:24:06 AM by antikvark
 #25

Bitcoin membership is the fact of being a member of a group that gave up their ownership in exchange for digital or paper bitcoin certificates which grant zero ownership rights. Hence, there is no better word for this than membership.
Gave up their ownership? It's literally just a change of what asset they have ownership in. From the ownership of fiat, to ownership of bitcoin. You could use that "membership" argument with literally almost anything.

Sure that Bitcoin is a property if a dozen of memory bytes or paper is a property. By certificate I mean paper that verifies the fact that you own property. Gold is property, while a gold certificate is a paper that verifies the existence of this property and displays its quantity and other info.
That's actually one of the strengths of bitcoin. To prove ownership you don't need a printed piece of paper. Instead, you prove ownership by signing messages using certain addresses, or by making a certain transaction.
Yes they gave up their ownership. Either of entitlements (rights to non-monetary repayments in the case of FIAT for e.g.) or need-satisfying goods, commodities, etc. After that, they only have membership. This membership grants zero entitlements, it grants zero ownership rights, and the only way they can benefit is if new investor voluntarily transfers his/her ownership to them by entering into the scheme - which is exactly how classical fraudulent schemes operate.

Regarding the last paragraph, you talk nonsense. As a Bitcoin holder you own nothing. Bitcoin is a certificate that proves membership not ownership. Dollar is a certificate that proves ownership - of rights to non-monetary repayments. A bond is a certificate that proves ownership - of rights to interest (the coupon) and to repayment of the principal at the maturity date. A stock is a certificate that proves ownership - of rights to a share in a company's profitability or liquidation value.  Bitcoin is not such certificate, it proves zero ownership rights. It is just a digital (sometimes paper) certificate of membership in a modern-day fraudulent scheme.
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January 17, 2020, 05:54:02 AM
 #26

The video explains how Bitcoin turns your ownership into membership, which is exactly how classical fraudulent schemes operate.

https://youtu.be/C5RplXYwCyY

Do you know what is fraudulent here? It is this thing you are doing that is fraudulent.

And you claim to be educating people? Come on, you are the one who needs it. Isn't it obvious?

And talking about ownership, Bitcoin offers it 100%. Of course for as long as you do not save it somewhere else beyond your control such as exchange wallets.

Basically what could happen is that, since bitcoin is providing people with absolute freedome to the market and their own funds, people could choose to either be free or to be like what the member means by OP. You actually have the total control over your private keys and trasactions but turns out to be controlled by the market becauae most of the time, we got influenced by the fear of lossing profit. In the first place you just need to be firm and steady, being affected like this post from OP is one example of being manipulated and lost of freedom if entertained.

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davis196
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January 17, 2020, 06:51:59 AM
 #27

The video explains how Bitcoin turns your ownership into membership, which is exactly how classical fraudulent schemes operate.

https://youtu.be/C5RplXYwCyY
Seriously! Other day I saw the same with just a different title.

In the below 6-minute video, it is explained why Bitcoin is a fraud where a gift record is falsely presented to the public as a market item.

https://youtu.be/LlPwmW4XphE

What is your problem? Same video in another post:

... fake market instrument

Video version of the argument: https://youtu.be/aZzH1Js2l4k
WTF!

If you think your fiat is better than bitcoin then go and give your ass to the FED so that they can put a green dildo in your ass. Or you are getting paid by Ver, Craig and co to spread nonsense about Bitcoin. Get the fuck out of the forum you moron.

Wow,calm down dude.People have different opinions.Maybe the OP isn't a FUDster or BSV supporter.
I wouldn't watch those videos,because I don't think that I will learn something new from the anti-bitcoin theorists.However,we have to respect the opinions of other people,despite the fact,that we disagree with them.

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January 17, 2020, 07:25:13 AM
 #28

The video explains how Bitcoin turns your ownership into membership, which is exactly how classical fraudulent schemes operate.

https://youtu.be/C5RplXYwCyY
Seriously! Other day I saw the same with just a different title.

In the below 6-minute video, it is explained why Bitcoin is a fraud where a gift record is falsely presented to the public as a market item.

https://youtu.be/LlPwmW4XphE

What is your problem? Same video in another post:

... fake market instrument

Video version of the argument: https://youtu.be/aZzH1Js2l4k
WTF!

If you think your fiat is better than bitcoin then go and give your ass to the FED so that they can put a green dildo in your ass. Or you are getting paid by Ver, Craig and co to spread nonsense about Bitcoin. Get the fuck out of the forum you moron.

Wow,calm down dude.People have different opinions.Maybe the OP isn't a FUDster or BSV supporter.
I wouldn't watch those videos,because I don't think that I will learn something new from the anti-bitcoin theorists.However,we have to respect the opinions of other people,despite the fact,that we disagree with them.
Yes thats correct we have to respect each others decision because we have different perspectives in life and also we have different opinions and knowledge. As a human we often ask questions if we dont know aboit a particular thing and also we are tend to answer questions if we know the answer. Respect is must coz in order for you to be respected by others you also have to respect others.
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January 17, 2020, 08:57:27 AM
 #29

It doesn't necessarily mean that just because Bitcoin doesn't have physical attribute and doesn't have that certificate of ownership, that makes Bitcoin as a fraudulent scheme. Those assets that were mentioned in the video are a physical asset. And Bitcoin is different from them. Bitcoin can be considered as intangible asset, doesn't have physical substance but a person holding it has a control over it. (Whether he'll use it or store it). It has a value that can bring a future benefit to the holder/owner. It doesn't always have to have a certificate of ownership just to say you own it because Bitcoin is different.

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January 17, 2020, 09:30:27 AM
 #30

The video explains how Bitcoin turns your ownership into membership, which is exactly how classical fraudulent schemes operate.

https://youtu.be/C5RplXYwCyY

This is not any secret and it is not required to expose. Every bitcoin holders know that physically the bitcoin has no meaning. It is not regulated by a single person or a team. It is well established now and fundamentally there is a huge difference between fiat and bitcoin. In the video you have tried to compare it with Ponzi schemes but Ponzi is not open-source and it is totally regulated a person or team as the members got engaged into the team the total amount of the scheme got rise and only the owner of the company have all the rights on the money. 

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antikvark
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January 17, 2020, 02:29:58 PM
 #31

The video explains how Bitcoin turns your ownership into membership, which is exactly how classical fraudulent schemes operate.

https://youtu.be/C5RplXYwCyY

Do you know what is fraudulent here? It is this thing you are doing that is fraudulent.

And you claim to be educating people? Come on, you are the one who needs it. Isn't it obvious?

And talking about ownership, Bitcoin offers it 100%. Of course for as long as you do not save it somewhere else beyond your control such as exchange wallets.

Basically what could happen is that, since bitcoin is providing people with absolute freedome to the market and their own funds, people could choose to either be free or to be like what the member means by OP. You actually have the total control over your private keys and trasactions but turns out to be controlled by the market becauae most of the time, we got influenced by the fear of lossing profit. In the first place you just need to be firm and steady, being affected like this post from OP is one example of being manipulated and lost of freedom if entertained.
I totally agree with you. Bitcoin is providing people with absolute freedom with regards to ownership of their property. Before investing into Bitcoin they were the property owners. After the investment they are the holders of digital membership coins, completely free of any property.
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January 17, 2020, 02:34:57 PM
 #32

What a lot of rubbish and the video is terrible quality too just like the content.

If you don't like bitcoin go somewhere else.  No one is forcing you to take part it's your own free will and choice.

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January 17, 2020, 02:46:26 PM
Last edit: January 17, 2020, 03:11:46 PM by antikvark
 #33

It doesn't necessarily mean that just because Bitcoin doesn't have physical attribute and doesn't have that certificate of ownership, that makes Bitcoin as a fraudulent scheme. Those assets that were mentioned in the video are a physical asset. And Bitcoin is different from them. Bitcoin can be considered as intangible asset, doesn't have physical substance but a person holding it has a control over it. (Whether he'll use it or store it). It has a value that can bring a future benefit to the holder/owner. It doesn't always have to have a certificate of ownership just to say you own it because Bitcoin is different.
You can also say that membership card of your local sports club is "intangible asset". But that's just semantics. If membership doesn't grant you specific monetary or non-monetary entitlements, then it is completely worthless, it's just symbolic. Bitcoin is like that. It is a digital membership card that grants you zero entitlements, and as such it is worthless. Calling it asset won't magically change this. An asset is either certificate that grants specific entitlements (rights), be it, bond, stock, Fiat, CFD, future contract, patent,... or tangible good. Membership cards, membership coins, or membership certificates are not assets - they are just means to verify that you are a member of some group or a community.
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January 17, 2020, 02:52:25 PM
 #34

The video explains how Bitcoin turns your ownership into membership, which is exactly how classical fraudulent schemes operate.

https://youtu.be/C5RplXYwCyY

This is not any secret and it is not required to expose. Every bitcoin holders know that physically the bitcoin has no meaning. It is not regulated by a single person or a team. It is well established now and fundamentally there is a huge difference between fiat and bitcoin. In the video you have tried to compare it with Ponzi schemes but Ponzi is not open-source and it is totally regulated a person or team as the members got engaged into the team the total amount of the scheme got rise and only the owner of the company have all the rights on the money. 
The video simply proved that Ponzi and Bitcoin operate on the same principle of turning ownership into membership.
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January 17, 2020, 03:30:53 PM
 #35

If you don't like bitcoin go somewhere else.  No one is forcing you to take part it's your own free will and choice.

If haters can't even distance themselves from Bitcoin because it's too interesting to keep following its progress, you know Bitcoin is doing something right. Smiley

In the end, most of the people trying to discredit Bitcoin are simply attempting to get the price to drop. They either want to buy lower, or they think they missed a huge opportunity years ago and now they don't want to see others who did buy in early do well. It's not too late to buy today peeps. Nothing sucks more than missing out once again if you don't start accumulating.

USD is a one-way ticket South. Bitcoin is a one-way ticket North. You can choose.
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January 17, 2020, 03:37:52 PM
 #36

The video explains how Bitcoin turns your ownership into membership, which is exactly how classical fraudulent schemes operate.

What membership? Do you get a gold membership when you buy gold, or an euro membership when you buy €? Schemes need you to bring others to invest, with bitcoin you don't care if your neighbor gets in or not. It would benefit them, but its their problem if they want or not to buy, and bitcoin certainly doesn't care, it does NOT depend in the inflow of money from people buying it.

Bitcoin price is a simple free market result, it is useful enough to the group of people that own it, because they perceive it so, and that's what truly defines value. This can change at anytime and this is what fluctuation reflects. Over a decade, however, it has been gaining.



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Rainbot
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January 17, 2020, 04:18:00 PM
 #37

It puts Bitcoin in a negative light, all of these are all false, there's nothing secret on Bitcoin on how it is being used it's just tell us that Bitcoin is useless when it is not, the creator of this video is so ignorant, he is creating FUDS his two videos are all against Bitcoin, well what you can expect, you cannot please everybody he is ten years late to destroy Bitcoin.

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January 18, 2020, 06:12:27 AM
 #38

The video explains how Bitcoin turns your ownership into membership, which is exactly how classical fraudulent schemes operate.

What membership? Do you get a gold membership when you buy gold, or an euro membership when you buy €? Schemes need you to bring others to invest, with bitcoin you don't care if your neighbor gets in or not. It would benefit them, but its their problem if they want or not to buy, and bitcoin certainly doesn't care, it does NOT depend in the inflow of money from people buying it.

Bitcoin price is a simple free market result, it is useful enough to the group of people that own it, because they perceive it so, and that's what truly defines value. This can change at anytime and this is what fluctuation reflects. Over a decade, however, it has been gaining.
No, because having a commodity (an actual good) or entitlement to something (non-monetary repayments derived from euro loans) is called ownership. On the other hand, just having a certificate, a card, or a record (paper or digital), without having some actual good or entitlement, is called membership. Of course, the owners of gold and euro can form a club or a community, and name it by the thing they own, but that would just mean they have both the ownership and the membership.


I aggre, Bitcoin price is of simple free market result, but so was the tulip price during the Duch Tulip Mania.

And of course, people don't own Bitcoin. They hold it, as Bitcoin is only a record and not a good or an entitlement.
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January 18, 2020, 06:21:17 AM
 #39

It puts Bitcoin in a negative light, all of these are all false, there's nothing secret on Bitcoin on how it is being used it's just tell us that Bitcoin is useless when it is not, the creator of this video is so ignorant, he is creating FUDS his two videos are all against Bitcoin, well what you can expect, you cannot please everybody he is ten years late to destroy Bitcoin.
If telling the truth about Bitcoin puts it in a negative light, then it follows that Bitcoin is a negative thing. And, there's nothing false in the video, as Bitcoin indeed turns ownership into membership, which is how all fraudulent schemes operate.
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January 18, 2020, 06:31:05 AM
Last edit: January 18, 2020, 06:45:04 AM by antikvark
 #40

The video explains how Bitcoin turns your ownership into membership, which is exactly how classical fraudulent schemes operate.

https://youtu.be/C5RplXYwCyY

This is not any secret and it is not required to expose. Every bitcoin holders know that physically the bitcoin has no meaning. It is not regulated by a single person or a team. It is well established now and fundamentally there is a huge difference between fiat and bitcoin. In the video you have tried to compare it with Ponzi schemes but Ponzi is not open-source and it is totally regulated a person or team as the members got engaged into the team the total amount of the scheme got rise and only the owner of the company have all the rights on the money.  
Bitcoin is different from all other money systems. We cannot compare it with anyone of them. It acts as a strong system of payment without any support or governance. Though it is still in the phase of development, it is very well established and developed system. Other systems are governed by the authorities, governments, banks but it is self-governing.
Bitcoin is not a money system as money systems transfer either goods (commodities) or entitlements. Bitcoin, on the other hand, is a system for transferring digital membership certificates. Membership certificates are not money.
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