Bttzed03 (OP)
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January 25, 2020, 05:52:16 AM Last edit: January 25, 2020, 06:21:04 AM by Bttzed03 |
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Chainalysis released an article a few days ago entitled As Exchanges Beef Up Security Measures, Hackers Get More Sophisticated. It's pretty obvious for me that hackers will adapt to whatever security upgrades these exchanges will have but what really got me interested is how the hacked coins are being spent/sold/liquidated. Chainalysis claims that a group of hackers are now using coin mixing/coinjoin services in 2019 compared to the previous years. We can also notice that they've stopped using centralized crypto exchanges and that is probably due to way these exchanges are coordinating faster now to block/freeze funds from hackers' wallets. (refer to image below) We know that it's the exchange fault for getting hacked but it still kinda sucks to think that the services that are meant to increase our privacy & anonymity are also aiding these hackers (and also money launderers). The fact that developers are trying to improve mixing methods and that more and more mixing services are coming out also gives hackers more options.
For those who wants to read about mixers, here's a good thread to start What is Bitcoin Mixer?
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NeuroticFish
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January 25, 2020, 06:02:23 AM |
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Mixers are also businesses, like the exchanges. Nothing stops them from an arrangement to not mix stolen coins. Of course I don't know if this exists, nobody will confirm that.
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Bttzed03 (OP)
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January 25, 2020, 06:32:21 AM |
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^ I haven't thought of that but that's definitely a possibility.
When you come to think of it, nothing also stops them from creating their own mixing methods. They have the resources and I would not doubt if they have the skills. Maybe there's already one under development, who knows?
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joniboini
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January 25, 2020, 11:54:55 AM |
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You can replace the 'mixing' part with anything privacy-related, such as VPN, DNS encryption, etc. You can also put 'bank' in there and it will still feel okay. After all, banks have been doing a very good job of laundering money for the past decades.
If you can solve the hacking or careless security practice from those exchanges, there's no money to launder btw.
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The Cryptovator
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January 25, 2020, 12:53:55 PM |
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Its true mixing services are great opportunities for hacker to hide themselves. But it doesn't mean mixing services are encouraging hackers to hack others fund. Even when there were no mixing services hacking wasn't stopped. They chosen some other sources for hide themselves and it's pretty clear on your chart. Mixing is for save your privacy, and this is for all even for hackers & scammers. If hackers could hack huge amount of fund then I believe they know very well how they have to save themselves. So concern is about security, most of hack happened on exchange. Prevention is better than cure, so exchange should always use latest security and closed all back doors.
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amacar2
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January 25, 2020, 01:31:43 PM |
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Is this one of the reason why a long running and trusted bitcoin mixing service bitmixer stopped their operation without any prior notice. An anoymous betting platform like directbet also closed their door. Looks like low kyc or anything around bitcoin without kyc is getting threatend by authorities for possible involvement in money laundering.
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o_e_l_e_o
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January 25, 2020, 02:28:07 PM |
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it still kinda sucks to think that the services that are meant to increase our privacy & anonymity are also aiding these hackers (and also money launderers). Criminals will always be attracted to any service which enhances user privacy, and mixers, coinjoin, KYCless exchanges, etc. are no different. The same holds true in the non-crypto world. Even something as fundamental as basic encryption, while allowing the entire internet to function, also allows criminal to communicate securely. The most privacy respecting way of spending fiat - simple physical cash - is also the preferred method of criminals. Rubbishing a legitimate product or service because some criminals misuse it is a backwards way of thinking. Criminals use the internet. Criminals use cash. Criminals use getaway cars. Do we rally against the internet, cash, or cars? Of course not. It is especially concerning when the product in question - such as a mixer - is designed to improve the privacy of normal users. If we ban or make illegal services like VPNs, Tor, coinjoin, end-to-end encrypted communication, and so forth, criminals will still use them. It is only the honest users who will suffer.
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logfiles
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January 25, 2020, 03:21:24 PM Last edit: January 25, 2020, 03:55:43 PM by logfiles |
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Is this one of the reason why a long running and trusted bitcoin mixing service bitmixer stopped their operation without any prior notice. An anoymous betting platform like directbet also closed their door. Looks like low kyc or anything around bitcoin without kyc is getting threatend by authorities for possible involvement in money laundering.
Bitmixer didn't voluntarily stop their operation, their domain was actually seized by authorities meaning they had already been under investigation for a while... I am thinking you meant Bitblender.io who suddenly shutdown business at around the same period of time.Also, most of the popular exchange hacks happened in the second half of the 2019. The most notable being the binance hack where the said hacked bitcoins ended up being bombarded into chipmixer
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stompix
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January 25, 2020, 03:28:46 PM |
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Is this one of the reason why a long running and trusted bitcoin mixing service bitmixer stopped their operation without any prior notice. An anoymous betting platform like directbet also closed their door. Looks like low kyc or anything around bitcoin without kyc is getting threatend by authorities for possible involvement in money laundering.
Bitmixer didn't voluntarily stop their operation, their domain was actually seized by authorities meaning they had already been under investigation for a while... I am thinking you meant Bitblender.io who suddenly shutdown business at around the same period of time. No, he is right, Bitmixer.io shut down voluntarilyBestmixer.io was seized by the Dutch FIOD.
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January 25, 2020, 03:54:50 PM |
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My bad. Sometimes i kind of confuse two mixers whenever I see either of the two domains Thanks for the correction, I guess my eyes are now tired.
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joeperry
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January 25, 2020, 03:56:37 PM |
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I've already think that this would happen a few years back, however they can't mixed a large amount of stolen bitcoin since for what I've known mixers only have a minimum amount to be mixed a day.
But this is the first time I heard that it was really used by the hackers, well maybe I just didn't focused on news that's why maybe I missed some news regarding this kind of matter and if this is the case I don't think we're be able to track them down.
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Bttzed03 (OP)
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January 25, 2020, 04:45:26 PM |
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Its true mixing services are great opportunities for hacker to hide themselves. But it doesn't mean mixing services are encouraging hackers to hack others fund. Even when there were no mixing services hacking wasn't stopped. ~
Yes of course. These services are merely tools that are available for both regular users and hackers.
~ Criminals will always be attracted to any service which enhances user privacy, and mixers, coinjoin, KYCless exchanges, etc. are no different. The same holds true in the non-crypto world. Even something as fundamental as basic encryption, while allowing the entire internet to function, also allows criminal to communicate securely. The most privacy respecting way of spending fiat - simple physical cash - is also the preferred method of criminals.
True that. Bitcoin + mixers/coinjoin (and privacy coins), however, made it easier and faster for hackers/criminals to move funds around in a private manner. Rubbishing a legitimate product or service because some criminals misuse it is a backwards way of thinking. Criminals use the internet. Criminals use cash. Criminals use getaway cars. Do we rally against the internet, cash, or cars? Of course not. It is especially concerning when the product in question - such as a mixer - is designed to improve the privacy of normal users. If we ban or make illegal services like VPNs, Tor, coinjoin, end-to-end encrypted communication, and so forth, criminals will still use them. It is only the honest users who will suffer.
The problem here I think is that, compared to internet/cash/cars, authorities finds it harder to track the activities of these criminals using crypto + mixers/coinjoin. That's why they have been going hard after these kinds of services and other privacy coins. Remember bestmixer, FATF & travel rule, publications against crypto & mixers, etc... It's is rather unfortunate that regular users are also affected because of criminal activities.
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mk4
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January 25, 2020, 04:56:54 PM |
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You can replace the 'mixing' part with anything privacy-related, such as VPN, DNS encryption, etc. You can also put 'bank' in there and it will still feel okay. After all, banks have been doing a very good job of laundering money for the past decades.
This. Unfortunately, for almost every single technology that was created since the dawn of humanity, there's always immoral and unethical people that will take advantage of it in a negative manner. Cars being used as getaway vehicles, the world wide web being used to spread false info and propaganda, cameras to take unsolicited photos, the list goes on and on and on. Bitcoin and privacy solutions like mixers are just newer examples.
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gentlemand
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January 26, 2020, 12:14:46 AM |
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Mixers are also businesses, like the exchanges. Nothing stops them from an arrangement to not mix stolen coins. Of course I don't know if this exists, nobody will confirm that.
When I've raised this possibility people have often come back saying mixers should not 'judge' which i think is total balls. You can be a privacy believer and facilitator and not be a fan of enabling thieves to operate and escape. If I ran one any directly traceable stolen funds would be going straight back along with instructions as to where to ram their monies.
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RapTarX
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January 26, 2020, 02:11:07 PM |
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We know that it's the exchange fault for getting hacked but it still kinda sucks to think that the services that are meant to increase our privacy & anonymity are also aiding these hackers (and also money launderers). The fact that developers are trying to improve mixing methods and that more and more mixing services are coming out also gives hackers more options.
Zyklon B which is a chemical invented for pest control in agricultural fields and factories which later used for genocide during World War II by Nazis. https://www.thevintagenews.com/2015/12/09/10-deadly-inventions-in-history/The things that we must understand is every system has its good and bad effects. Mixing sites are good for people who want to keep their financial activities secret from prying eyes; it's being used by hackers and for that reason, it won't be a good idea if we stand against mixing- just saying. There are some exchanges who run mixing service as well; no certain info but it's possible. Either way, you can't stop hackers to hide themselves. We have Monero where "No transaction without privacy" & other privacy coins as well which can't be traced. Good to see my article has been suggested
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carlfebz2
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January 26, 2020, 05:05:08 PM |
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You can replace the 'mixing' part with anything privacy-related, such as VPN, DNS encryption, etc. You can also put 'bank' in there and it will still feel okay. After all, banks have been doing a very good job of laundering money for the past decades.
This. Unfortunately, for almost every single technology that was created since the dawn of humanity, there's always immoral and unethical people that will take advantage of it in a negative manner. Cars being used as getaway vehicles, the world wide web being used to spread false info and propaganda, cameras to take unsolicited photos, the list goes on and on and on. Bitcoin and privacy solutions like mixers are just newer examples. Fact! Just surprised on why people do still get shocked about mixer being used on illegal way/launder money.Its nothing new for hackers to use up the services.Of course, they do know that they can utilize mixing service for the tracks to be erased.Who would be the one would be carelessly using up gateways for them to be traced up?Of course ,none!
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PrimeNumber7
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January 27, 2020, 06:20:21 AM |
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The blog linked in the OP says that Lazarus Group (referenced in the OP chart) specifically was using CoinJoin more frequently. The analysis does not break down a mixer verses CJ transactions.
I haven't seen any of the data that Chainalysis used/looked at, but I presume Lazarus started using Wasabi Wallet, and is comfortable with its privacy. If this is true, they are probably comfortable with the privacy from Wasabi when all outputs are equal, except each person's change.
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ultrloa
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January 27, 2020, 08:51:13 AM |
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You can replace the 'mixing' part with anything privacy-related, such as VPN, DNS encryption, etc. You can also put 'bank' in there and it will still feel okay. After all, banks have been doing a very good job of laundering money for the past decades.
This. Unfortunately, for almost every single technology that was created since the dawn of humanity, there's always immoral and unethical people that will take advantage of it in a negative manner. Cars being used as getaway vehicles, the world wide web being used to spread false info and propaganda, cameras to take unsolicited photos, the list goes on and on and on. Bitcoin and privacy solutions like mixers are just newer examples. Fact! Just surprised on why people do still get shocked about mixer being used on illegal way/launder money.Its nothing new for hackers to use up the services.Of course, they do know that they can utilize mixing service for the tracks to be erased.Who would be the one would be carelessly using up gateways for them to be traced up?Of course ,none! Correct and it's an smart act for them to use that up since if there's no trace no people will be sued that's why I'm other hand I will agree for authorities if they will take down those services since it's not really helpful for people especially if they fell for the hackers hand and this should be address since mixer is not actually helping innocent people since their platforms has been used for certain abuse.
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alani123
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January 27, 2020, 09:17:16 AM Last edit: January 27, 2020, 12:49:41 PM by alani123 Merited by o_e_l_e_o (2), Bttzed03 (1) |
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I think this study is a great example of how many hoops individuals have to go through to launder money with BTC. For sure there is no denying that it's a convenient way to move funds from point A to point B as it can be done online, but in order to convert it to hard cash, parties that might not have legitimate intentions continue to pay a price for it and commit even more criminal acts on the way. There's no wonder that scammers still ask for victims to pay them in gift cards. Those closed systems wouldn't even allow for research like the one done in this case, so we can't even have an accurate estimate of how much money is scammed through iTune cards for example.
Printed cash remains convenient to transfer "bad money" and is still in many ways even better for these specific purposes. Bitcoin really doesn't introduce many innovations to money laundering. In the past, criminals would use forged documents to utilize a network of so called "money mule" bank accounts to avoid traceability, this way allowing to launder money even through banks. The extent at which banks were actually putting on efforts to stop them is unknown.
A very characteristic example, is that this very technique, along with offshore banks was used to 'hide' transfers of USD 1bn into Malaysia's ex PM personal accounts. That money was outright stolen from the nation's people as part of one of the world's biggest corruption schemes ever. Mind you, this is a scheme that Deutche Bank and Goldman Sachs executives, along with several Swiss banks were also involved in.
Long story short, because analysis of this type can lead to quite politicized conclusions, I'd like to point out that maybe media like to talk about an association between hackers and bitcoin. With BTC that label is only put on because of traceability. Banks are also known to handle bad money and once such funds get into the banking system, the world effectively loses track of how much value goes through it or where it goes.
Also, to comment on the release in specific: Isn't it a little weird how they're tracking such a big increase from one year to another for mixing? I get a feeling that the scope of this research might be a little narrow... Not to blame them, it's a vast amount of data an parameters, but I doubt they had comparable data to indicate a reliable increase from year to year.
Edit for spelling.
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1Referee
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2170
Merit: 1427
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January 27, 2020, 10:53:04 AM |
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People tend to always focus on the negative aspect of mixing and whatnot, while they completely forget that the same privacy hackers enjoy, is also beneficial to all of us normal folks. Criminals use what they deem useful (Bitcoin, cash, gift cards, prepaid debit cards, Gold, etc) and whatever they deem useful is also useful to us. In that regard, I'm not bothered at all by articles like this.
I'm very much looking forward to how upgrades such as Schnorr will change mixing in general. It shouldn't come as a surprise that authorities won't like to see such advancements in Bitcoin because it took them years to get to the point they are today, so imagine how long it will take to catch up this time with much more privacy enhancing functionalities baked into Bitcoin.
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