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Author Topic: Physical bitcoins can get stolen...  (Read 7728 times)
casascius
Mike Caldwell
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The Casascius 1oz 10BTC Silver Round (w/ Gold B)


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November 18, 2011, 05:54:41 PM
 #1

But not by hackers!

Someone reported the first theft of four physical bitcoins in a recent burglary.

Quote from: a_buyer_of_physical_bitcoins_in_Canada

Oh I forgot to mention out of the first batch of coins I purchased I had given a few away, 4 of them had been physically stolen in a burglary, the guys had been later caught and some of the items recovered, jewelry etc,, but no bitcoins not sure if they got spent/sold or what Smiley


I find it novel to point out that this is about the only way physical bitcoins can be stolen... same as cash.

The four physical bitcoins are active and legitimate, so nobody needs to worry about their own coins being at risk.

Companies claiming they got hacked and lost your coins sounds like fraud so perfect it could be called fashionable.  I never believe them.  If I ever experience the misfortune of a real intrusion, I declare I have been honest about the way I have managed the keys in Casascius Coins.  I maintain no ability to recover or reproduce the keys, not even under limitless duress or total intrusion.  Remember that trusting strangers with your coins without any recourse is, as a matter of principle, not a best practice.  Don't keep coins online. Use paper wallets instead.
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November 19, 2011, 01:30:04 AM
 #2

And so the Blackmarket for Casascius coins begins Wink

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November 19, 2011, 04:04:27 AM
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I feel bad for the person who got robbed, but must be nice to have someone wanting to steal our Bitcoins Smiley.

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November 19, 2011, 04:39:16 AM
 #4

But not by hackers!

Someone reported the first theft of four physical bitcoins in a recent burglary.

Quote from: a_buyer_of_physical_bitcoins_in_Canada

Oh I forgot to mention out of the first batch of coins I purchased I had given a few away, 4 of them had been physically stolen in a burglary, the guys had been later caught and some of the items recovered, jewelry etc,, but no bitcoins not sure if they got spent/sold or what Smiley


I find it novel to point out that this is about the only way physical bitcoins can be stolen... same as cash.

The four physical bitcoins are active and legitimate, so nobody needs to worry about their own coins being at risk.

Not really, casascius could theoretically have the private keys. Never trust that he doesn't because there's no good reason to - only use your own generated addresses, print them out on paper if you please.
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November 19, 2011, 05:51:43 AM
 #5

casascius could theoretically have the private keys. Never trust that he doesn't because there's no good reason to
Well, it's not like you're going to keep your life savings in casascius physical bitcoins.

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June 06, 2012, 06:09:12 AM
 #6

Thats why I have my physical coins in a safe deposit box.... at the bank... is that ironic?

... the safe deposit box is free...
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June 06, 2012, 06:24:17 AM
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Thats why I have my physical coins in a safe deposit box.... at the bank... is that ironic?

... the safe deposit box is free...

What happens if a bank gets robbed? Is the safety deposit boc insured, and how do you prove value if so?
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June 06, 2012, 06:55:01 AM
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I have another copy in a secrete safe arguably more secure than the safe deposit box. If that gets compromised then they bloody well earned it.

I figure the chances of both copies being destroyed at the same time would mean that we have been hit by an asteroid.

edit: the only way to open the safe deposit boxes are with special made keys, without which takes their lock smith 2+ hours with special tools to drill out.
not insured as far as I know.

edit2: 2+ hours per box with special tools. there are hundreds of boxes.
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June 06, 2012, 07:42:04 AM
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edit2: 2+ hours per box with special tools. there are hundreds of boxes.

Pretty sure a thief is not going to be concerned about the box being available for re-use so would be quicker in his/her method.
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June 06, 2012, 08:32:31 AM
 #10

edit2: 2+ hours per box with special tools. there are hundreds of boxes.

Pretty sure a thief is not going to be concerned about the box being available for re-use so would be quicker in his/her method.

5 to 10 mins a box. now to get in there with out the police knowing with the tech we have know is not going to happen. that box is safe unless, war, the bank takes it, the govt takes it...



Governments have done such things in the past.

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June 06, 2012, 08:46:50 AM
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edit2: 2+ hours per box with special tools. there are hundreds of boxes.

Pretty sure a thief is not going to be concerned about the box being available for re-use so would be quicker in his/her method.

5 to 10 mins a box. now to get in there with out the police knowing with the tech we have know is not going to happen. that box is safe unless, war, the bank takes it, the govt takes it...



Governments have done such things in the past.

That's actually infinitely more likely to happen than robbers, should bitcoin become outlawed and you're found to be associated with it.
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June 06, 2012, 12:08:50 PM
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Nice example of why safety deposit boxes are no longer safe

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12248666
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June 06, 2012, 12:52:27 PM
 #13

What happens if a bank gets robbed? Is the safety deposit boc insured, and how do you prove value if so?

What would be ironic if is the insurance company denied the claim.

Most banks have a policy prohibiting the store of currency in safety deposit boxes.   Wildly ignored yes but they if a vault is compromised they won't cover claims on lost currency  "yeah I had um 1.2 no lets make it 1.5 million in $100 bills in my box.  I will take a cashier's check please".

While it would be bad news for the OP it would be good precedent for Bitcoin if the insurance company denied the claim on the grounds that Bitcoin was a currency and thus not subject to the policy.
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June 06, 2012, 03:13:19 PM
 #14

Nice example of why safety deposit boxes are no longer safe

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12248666

"the owners of the boxes had to prove the contents inside belonged to them and, in the case of money, were legitimate income."

"The box holders included many Indian and Jewish families who were storing heirlooms and wedding jewellery because they feared burglars would steal them if they were kept at home.

For many of them, it took months to persuade the police to release their possessions."

oh wow...

I remember thinking at the time how much that whole operation stank of state enforced theft. None of the judges near the station where the raid was planned would issue the seizure warrants because they felt the grounds for searching the boxes was weak so the police had to get a "friendly" judge from miles away to help them out. Also confiscating possessions on the basis that you can't prove ownership is a blatant way of stealing wealth from ordinary citizens. I doubt that British museum could prove ownership of anything they possess but yet they don't get raided at dawn by the police. 

Just goes to show that the rule of law means sweet fuck all if the authorities are desperate to get your wealth.
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June 06, 2012, 04:12:51 PM
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I guess the lesson here regarding the BBC story is, if you want to set up this kind of business, you better be prepared to have a shooting war with the police. Because apparently it will come to that if you want to actually be able to offer your clients what you are promising. So quick question .. I dont really want to hire Academi because they are Xe and Blackwater scumbos, but who is their competition? Is there any good paramilitary mercenarcy organization with strong morals and good rates and availability?
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June 06, 2012, 04:28:41 PM
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edit2: 2+ hours per box with special tools. there are hundreds of boxes.

Pretty sure a thief is not going to be concerned about the box being available for re-use so would be quicker in his/her method.

sure, but the safe deposit "boxes" im refering to are more analogous to a "honey comb" than a box.  the lock smith is not concerned with the condition of the door to it either
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June 06, 2012, 04:30:02 PM
 #17

I guess the lesson here regarding the BBC story is, if you want to set up this kind of business, you better be prepared to have a shooting war with the police. Because apparently it will come to that if you want to actually be able to offer your clients what you are promising. So quick question .. I dont really want to hire Academi because they are Xe and Blackwater scumbos, but who is their competition? Is there any good paramilitary mercenarcy organization with strong morals and good rates and availability?
Good question. I'm sure some of the legal MJ sellers in Cali would like to know this as well.

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July 11, 2012, 03:44:53 PM
 #18

A safe deposit box might be a good idea. And if you're worried about your valuables you can always insure them. I was looking into it for my valuables and found this cool website that was pretty helpful. www.safedepositboxinsurance.com
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July 11, 2012, 07:10:27 PM
 #19

The bright side: someone just learned about Bitcoin. I'm thinking about leaving behind paper wallets in public transit, just to see if anything gets spent eventually.

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July 11, 2012, 07:16:55 PM
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The bright side: someone just learned about Bitcoin. I'm thinking about leaving behind paper wallets in public transit, just to see if anything gets spent eventually.

That would be a pretty interesting experiment.  I'd be curious how many coins would be used if you even wrote "this is a bitcoin address with BTC on it! It's valuable!" on said paper Cheesy

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